Gutting story m8 but id have to say noones really to blame - sounds like your engine was on its way out anyway but the operator probably shouldnt have pushed it that far (as said it wouldnt be making anymore power and you did mention it didnt limit?). If it was me id put it down to experience - they may help you out with some of the costs but IMO if it hadnt happened there it would probably have happened somewhere else in the near future...
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Gutting story m8 but id have to say noones really to blame - sounds like your engine was on its way out anyway but the operator probably shouldnt have pushed it that far (as said it wouldnt be making anymore power and you did mention it didnt limit?). If it was me id put it down to experience - they may help you out with some of the costs but IMO if it hadnt happened there it would probably have happened somewhere else in the near future...
I feel sorry for you pal...doesnt sound like your having much luck with your williams!
However he might have been revving it that high because it was still pulling that far as 2lives proved at the last rr...the torque and bhp curve shot up towards the end of the rev range to 6.5k so he had the limiter rasised to 7.1k and in my eyes he needed it as it pulls all the way to that...i think martins was the same too wasnt it mate?
Although i dont think he should have kept taking it on...I would have just said come back another day as the rollers werent working too well...but a bit late now!
Danny
sorry to hear that mate, it could well have been faulty equipment, generally with rolling roads they will only do it twice with about 15 mins in between each run, no matter how big the fan is infront of the rr you dont get the same cold airflow round your engine and the way 16v/williams engines heat up things tend to go pop if not cooled properly. how long did they leave it between runs? if the didnt let it cool down properly between runs they are definately at fault, good equipment or not.
Sorry to say this, but you put your car on a rolling road at your own risk, and you should have a rev cutout at under 7k on a williams (6.5k redline if i remember correctly).
You have to also consider that they do not know what condition your engine is in, i could put a clapped out heap on a rolling road, knowing the engine is on its way out, see it blow and then ask for cash for it.
Unless you can prove that the rolling road was actually to blame (which you wont be able to) your stuck with the bill for a new engine unfortunately...
Tony
ok correct me if im wrong but if a bearing had seized usually its when the overheat which would mean that it was slowly seizing up dragging your car power down with it which basically would increase the load on the engine as the rollers would make it much much harder for your car to turn the rollers and if you were flat out in 4th gear then that would be putting a hell of a lot of strain on the engine when it started pulling it back down to a speed when the rollers could seize. your engine must have been under a hell of a lot of load IMO the rollers seizing would have definately contributed to your motor blowing if it was on the way out/the fact it was far too over-revved also if the rollers were seizing up then this would explain why the power ouput was low as there would be more resistance and if it was supposed to be over 165bhp at the flywheel i would say that the rollers were seriously knackered. when he started testing i.e. when he put it in first and pulled off to get the rollers spinning was it difficult for him to do? as in it should of been normalish pull away as you do on the road not slow or hesitant
i dont think there likely to pay for it to be repaired but may meet you half way and do the work for you if you pay for parts etc
Dave
sorry, but I dont agree that the rollers were at fault, I had a similar situation at santa pod where I had come out of the water trap on a burn out to the line, the clutch gave up nearing the line whilst the engine was doing 6000rpm+ and the clutch blew to pieces, some exited the gearbox straight down and some bound the gearbox so it could not move, sudden stop of engine was inevitable - and the engine was fine - no problems with it at all, and believe me when I say that that was a violent stopping of an engine on full throttle and high rpm.
sorry dude but I would say that it was more the rev limit being too high that made the engine blow a rod rather that sudden stopping forces... and the end of the day it simply stalls the engine.
if you read it again you would see that i didnt say about a sudden stop. if the engine was under a hell of a lot of load as it would be a 7.5k with it being flat out and it has to labour under conditions it cannot control ie a roller seizing up it would be working very hard against this and if the clutch didnt give up then something would have for example if you were driving alont flat out and started driving up a hill which eventually ended vertical you would be putting the engine under extremes to the point something would give. i wouldnt say that the engine was in tip top condition however to just fail like that they usually give some warning all im saying is that the fact the rollers seized at the same time as the motor blew it seems it had to have contributed to the motor going
Roamer was you doing a burnout in 4th at the time by any chance??
Dave
Rolling roads work on torque or twisting force and are designed to operate the engine at maximum stress to measure maximum output. If the force required to turn the rolling road was higher than the maximum output of the engine the car would either stop accelerating or decelerate.
Its only like using maximum acceleration up a steep hill.
If the car didnt jump and snatch at the restraints then the cause is simply revving the engine over its limit or the engine being defective at the time the run was completed.
Cheers for all the opinions on this guys. So if worst comes to worst, how much would a new engine be? Would it even be worth it? Or if its just the Con-rod(And for some miraculous reason it hasnt damaged anything else), how much would that be? Just to update all, Autotechnics have suggested that we get an independant inspection from a mechanic, so he can check the state of the engine. Hopefully he MAY, be able to determine what condition the engine was in before the incident(Or what its like now) and also whether it was them taking it too high in the revs, that caused the blow. Thanks
when it blew had he just left of the throttle or was he still revving it?
if the rollers were seizing for whatever reason an the wheels were having to spin when he let of the throttle petrol the petrol injected goes down obviously.this can blow engine i.e sticking it down a gear and letting it slow down(if you see a police car an dont want to let them see you having to break is a good example).this is what can blow crankshafts apart so you could relate it to the conrods to.you get a twisting force on your crankshaft in both directions which is why it is balanced.
if you were on a rolling road and your wheels were basically doing a burnout(which ive seen happen on a rolling road without the car moving)then when he left of the throttle the twisting force would be so great in the opposite direction it could snap the con-rod what you guys think?
if he was still revving it it could still do the same if the rr wasnt working but they could still argue the case pretty well
Modern fuel injection cars dont actually use any fuel when you lift off the throttle so even if the RR did slow down very quickly it wouldnt cause problems. The engine management system decides how much fuel whatever you do. Of course the non standard programme may not have helped but thats hardly the RR operators fault.
In real world conditions you have 1000Kg of car fighting the engine on both acceleration and deceleration and its quite possible to lock both front almost instantly in an emergency stop without doing any engine damage
If the rollers seized, which i very much doubt, it would either:
Break traction, jump off the rollers, clutch slip/fail, or at worst the gearbox would fail.
What was the oil pressure like?? May have seized one of the big-ends.
For a con-rod to fail it would either be due to over-rev, or oil starvation causing the cap bolts to shear, or a similar bearing problem leading to failure of bolt/cap. Load applied to the engine is irellavent, its the load applied to the piston that will cause damage...eg sticking a high pressure turbo=massive cyl pressure=failed rod....or over reving causing inertia load/tensile stress to rise beyond safe levels on the exhaust stroke.
i know that mate thats what i said in my post when you let of the throttle the petrol injected goes down.you do get something called torque throw from the crankshaft though as its trying to twist constantly(hence it being balanced)in both directions and when the engine is at high revs an petrol is shut off the load isnt their to send it down so it trys to react and go the other way.
and that is a load applied to the piston.it can cause crankshafts to snap or conrod
gutted for you mate. Reading the thread i can see good points from both sides. IMO, best bet as Andy says, is to politely talk to them and see if they can offer any help. Hope it goes well and all it sorted soon
They may feel obliged to help so their RR doesnt get a bad name (seeing as one member has already cancelled their RR session!)Ive definetly resigned my Everself to the fact that the bang came from my car, and it wasnt the r/r. Im now waiting on the independant mechanic to see whats going to happen. Ive phoned up loads of other places and they also stated it prob wouldnt be the R/R. Every single comp has said they should not have taken it that far up the revs, and thats going to be the reason the engine has gone(So just like what u all said really). Im hopeing both me and Autotechnics can come to an agreement about costs. This will prob drag on till about Feb now. So il let u all know what happens in the new year
Polo GTi
Subtle...lol
Why doesnt someone just take a .45 and......BANG?
Im sure they they also made a 2.0 16v engine for the Scenic. Would this also be the same? I know it will be best if i get a NEW megane engine etc, but the cost behind it will be huge. Im hoping maybe to find a damaged Megane 2.0, but that still has the engine in top nik (And if im very very lucky, low miles on the clock)
You will not be able to use the whole megane engine as it uses a different kind of ignition (forget exact details) so youll just need the bottom end coupled to your head (if undamaged) or another williams head or a 1.8 head. if you do a search for 2ltr conversions on valvers, the posts should contain all the info you need...
audi S3
i had my williams 2 on the rolling road at bb tuning
they said they only had to rev it to 6800rpm to get a reading
even though it revs to 7800rpm with a prima racing chip
if i was you id contact bbt for advice on 01787 220 456
good luck mate
Fiat Coupe 20v turbo
Quote: Originally posted by Ballcrusher on 19 December 2004
i had my williams 2 on the rolling road at bb tuning
they said they only had to rev it to 6800rpm to get a reading
even though it revs to 7800rpm with a prima racing chip
if i was you id contact bbt for advice on 01787 220 456
good luck mate
audi S3
when i bought the car it all ready had the chip -stainlessQuote: Originally posted by Martin. on 19 December 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Ballcrusher on 19 December 2004
i had my williams 2 on the rolling road at bb tuning
they said they only had to rev it to 6800rpm to get a reading
even though it revs to 7800rpm with a prima racing chip
if i was you id contact bbt for advice on 01787 220 456
good luck mate
and filter. since then ive only changed the stainless witch is
two 8"inch but i dont no if previous owner had any internal
tunin done but i managed 165 on the rollers.
it runs on prima 17" prima f2 rear spoiler lowerd 40"mill
roll cage and a couple of shiney bits under the bonnet
[Edited by Ballcrusher on 20 December 2004 at 7:12pm]
Dont know if many people remeber this topic, but forgot to say my replacement engine was finally fitted!! The rolling road company were being very stuborn at first but eventually we settled the costs 50/50!! Which was cool! The head of the last engine seems in perfect condition so may sell that on soon. The replacement engine needed about a week to settle in, but now its back to normal, and if anything feels slighty better. The one thing ive really noticed again is the amount of people that try and race you when you have any so called boy racer/hot hatch!! Really hadnt noticed this till quite recently. I was driving a new MK 5 Golf TDI and a 1.4 206 for a while, and not once did i get action. The minute i was back in the clio!! Wham!! Every muther fuc{er wants a race!! Im acting like a kid again with a new toy!! Its great!!
