Engine breather plate - welding up

[haimsey]

So I have a constant issue with oil appearing on the top of the cam cover. I've tried all the suggested fixes on here (cam cover bolts out and add a bit of instant gasket to them & tighten back up, instant gasket under the breather plate). Still occurs. so I can only think that its escaping via the hole on the underside of the inlet manifold.
I've read that the opening/upstand on the breather plate that goes into the inlet manifold isn't needed, as with the second breather that goes over towards drivers arch/carbon canister (this could always be piped to a catch tank also I guess. 3rd breather is the crankcase breather and can be piped to a catch can/left on the intake elbow.
Question is, can the two breathers (red boxes) be welded up? - safe to do so, not going to cause any issues?
Also weld up the hole on the bottom of the inlet manifold? - not going to cause any issues.

 

[JP83]

I can't help with the other questions, but the one on the far left goes to the carbon cannister.

I've removed mine, and have blanked that hole with a silicone end cap.

 

[haimsey]

Well that answers being able to weld one of the exits up

 

[haimsey]

@NorthloopCup @Tony Hunter @Dan@SJM any help guys?

 

[NorthloopCup]

@NorthloopCup @Tony Hunter @Dan@SJM any help guys?

Are you sure it's not coming from the dephaser solenoid seal mate? It's another area to check.
In answer to your question though, yes you could block it off with weld, but my main concern would be indentifying 100% that the leak is definitely coming from there. There shouldn't be any oil in that upstand piece mate, but there is a small pin hole that could allow oil through.

Have you replaced the seal under the inlet manifold?

 

[fairm010]

I had oil on my rocker cover, replaced the VVT Solenoid seal (£12) and it's not come back.

 

[haimsey]

I have replaced the vvt solenoid seal as well, that was one of the first things I did.
@NorthloopCup By seal under the inlet manifold do you mean the O-ring type rubber? I haven't changed this if so.
Am I right in thinking if the upstand into the inlet is blanked off, it will mean that there are no oil vapours put back into the engine via that route (same as re-routing the other breather at the rear). Blanking both off won't create any additional pressure build up internally will it?

 

[NorthloopCup]

I have replaced the vvt solenoid seal as well, that was one of the first things I did.
@NorthloopCup By seal under the inlet manifold do you mean the O-ring type rubber? I haven't changed this if so.
Am I right in thinking if the upstand into the inlet is blanked off, it will mean that there are no oil vapours put back into the engine via that route (same as re-routing the other breather at the rear). Blanking both off won't create any additional pressure build up internally will it?

Yeah that's the one I'm meaning mate. Also, there should be a gasket on the breather plate (there is on 182's and 197's), so if this isn't there it will allow the plate to sit lower. This in turn will reduce the performance of that seal.

Yeah with the upstand blanked off then no vapours will re-enter the engine mate, but tbh, if you've got oil in that upstand, it's more likely that your engine is breathing.
Blanking them won't increase any pressure build up either.

See the pinhole?

That's your other likely cause of the leak mate.

Have you got any oil in your breather pipe? As in the one on the back that goes to the inlet elbow. If you're running a catch can on the end of this pipe, ignore the question as it's irrelevant. :up:

 

[haimsey]

@NorthloopCup under the breather plate is some loctite instant gasket that was mentioned to use - decent sized bead under there. Will this have been much better off with the Renault gasket? I will whip the inlet off and have a look at the weekend.
My thinking was that the vapour travelling out via the upstand to the inlet was somehow making its way out of the inlet and cooling on top of the rocker cover.
Will look for the pin hole and plug that up and keep an eye on that.

With regards blocking the two out lets on the breather plate - this will be totally fine then? future plan is ITB's so the plate would be suitable (and tidy) for that eventuality once welded up too. There's a hole under the breather plate (where you can see a cam lobe) doesn't seem to link to the rest of the space under the breather plate - correct?
Breather on the back of the engine will be going to a catch can soon, atm its still on the inlet elbow (and seems relatively clean for what it is, as does inside of the silicon elbow to the TB)

Thanks for the answers, top man :up:

 

[Dan@SJM]

If it's blowing oil out there you have real issues.

 

[haimsey]

@Dan@SJM it's not blowing out, there's just always seemed to be a small amount of oily crap appearing. Drives me mad as it have to keep wiping it off when I have the inlet off for whatever reason.
Is there a reason the breather plates with the SM inlets have a take off on them?
@NorthloopCup

 

[NorthloopCup]

@NorthloopCup under the breather plate is some loctite instant gasket that was mentioned to use - decent sized bead under there. Will this have been much better off with the Renault gasket? I will whip the inlet off and have a look at the weekend.
My thinking was that the vapour travelling out via the upstand to the inlet was somehow making its way out of the inlet and cooling on top of the rocker cover.
Will look for the pin hole and plug that up and keep an eye on that.

With regards blocking the two out lets on the breather plate - this will be totally fine then? future plan is ITB's so the plate would be suitable (and tidy) for that eventuality once welded up too. There's a hole under the breather plate (where you can see a cam lobe) doesn't seem to link to the rest of the space under the breather plate - correct?
Breather on the back of the engine will be going to a catch can soon, atm its still on the inlet elbow (and seems relatively clean for what it is, as does inside of the silicon elbow to the TB)

Thanks for the answers, top man :up:

I have the Renault gasket on mine mate - there's a reason why they fitted one. The ONLY way that oil can get in that upstand part is if the engine is breathing. They all breath a small amount anyway, mainly from the vacuum effect tbh, but a small amount of oil in there is the norm.

Yeah you'll be fine to block the 2 outlets mate.

Without taking my blanking cover off the old 172 engine mate, I can't remember where it goes to, but I'm pretty sure that's part of the breather setup mate.

@Dan@SJM it's not blowing out, there's just always seemed to be a small amount of oily crap appearing. Drives me mad as it have to keep wiping it off when I have the inlet off for whatever reason.
Is there a reason the breather plates with the SM inlets have a take off on them?
@NorthloopCup

The take off on the top of the sm breather plates is purely there because it's just a flare plate mate. The original is raised.

I don't run the original breather on my engine either. The take off is mounted in the top of the plate, as can be seen in this pic - the fitting is the blue and red item.

 

[haimsey]

Cheers guys. It's not that there is oil in the upstand, it's narrowing it down to where the oily muck on the cam cover is coming from.
@NorthloopCup what do you mean by "flare plate"?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Cheers guys. It's not that there is oil in the upstand, it's narrowing it down to where the oily muck on the cam cover is coming from.
@NorthloopCup what do you mean by "flare plate"?

Flare plate should read, flat plate mate! Typo on my part.

 

[haimsey]

Flare plate should read, flat plate mate! Typo on my part.

Ah right, no worries. You run a modified Renault breather plate then?

 

[NorthloopCup]

Ah right, no worries. You run a modified Renault breather plate then?

It's only modified in the fact that I've changed the position of the breather take off mate. Otherwise it's just a standard plate.

 

[haimsey]

So the take off you have is an alternative to one coming from the rear of the engine/cam cover area

 

[NorthloopCup]

So the take off you have is an alternative to one coming from the rear of the engine/cam cover area

Yes mate. The pms manifold I have dictated this.