Engine Conversion

[Jordysport]

Hello All,

Am looking at doing a converision into my Twingo GT,

So far what i have gathered is that the Front end of a Twingo (Mk2) is the same as a clio which i agree with. aswell as same struts 58mm spacing.

the engine mounting points are the same (twingo upper mounts are enclosed at the top- only difference- would need to use clio top mounts)

Was initially thinking of just putting the 172/182 engine alone in, but it may seem easier to do clio 172/82 engine and box as one. a few questions on the above. ( if anyone knows)

Driveshafts? should be the same length and teeth shape etc????

so all i am planning is taking a 172/182 Engine and gearbox complete and mounting it in the twingo (which is effectivly a mk2 clio)

and also the loom is the same??? ie connection blocks in the engine bay fuse box.

another potential prob is the location of the ECU and battery which could be in the way of the air intake but then again if the gearbox is the same then surely the distance from the centre of the engine mount to the gearbox will be the same for the twingo engine and the clio 172/82 engine.

Apolygies as i generally work in either rover or saxo's, but normally when i would do an engine conversion say from a vtr to vts i would disconnect the Immob box to unlock the ecu and use that box in the conversion so a package would be "ecu, loom, 5as (immob box) , engine)

If anyone can forsee any problems plse let me know, also had a thought that the fuel gauge may be off as the new engine and bigger injectors so would run out of fuel quicker. does the 172/82 have a digital fuel gauge.

soz for all the questions but i am looking to be the first to do this so obiously planning is crucial as....

Prior Planning Prevents a Piss Poor Performance...

thanks

 

[Dave.]

would be great if its possible, i hope your using a base model!

Sleeper FTW!

 

[Cro]

Not sure on your model but theres an old twingo rocking a 172 engine. Surely the turbo twingos can be tuned to be pretty close to 182 performance?

 

[Jordysport]

welll i have the GT model aka the 1.1 TURBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol but can only get 130 hp on standard injectors and its easyier and cheaper imo to drop a 172/182 in there. will post some pics of mine but the engine bay is identical, notice the strut tops etc. and engine mounts.

 

[Cro]

Lol and I thought the 182 bay was tight! megane 225 injectors would be what i'd be hitting first if thats what you say is holding you back from modding. New rail, regulator, turbo,fmic and a few bits could have you well up there for easily less cost than the work to put in a new engine

 

[Jordysport]

Lol funny you say that but, to do injectors, CUSTOM clutch , CUSTOM remap is over a grand, i already have fmic thinner filter, custom s&s system and it will produce Max 130hp as the clutch is also the limiting factor. i have been working on cars since i was 7 so labour is free.

I just don't know about CLIO 172's/182's thats where i need your help!

tbh only difference is the scuttle panel plastics which are covering the strut tops and these are removeable....

 

[Jordysport]

If anyone knows the answers to the 1st post could you reply, thats all i need really...... Facts is what i need less so on opinions.

 

[Fred@BTM]

can be done, don't think it has been done yet though, i know of an F4RT new shape twingo in Germany

who's mapped it up to 130bhp?

 

[Jordysport]

MK2 130bhp twingo's are very common, just ktec panel filter, exhaust system and remap will get that.. and that is a Meggy 225 motor isn't it?? i've seen that before fred i think. base model one tho. so it can fit, but mine should be a bit simpler as its non turbo.

Fred looking at your post could looks like you have a fair bit of experience, could you look on my questions in post 1 plse. and any probs you forsee as i see it renault would want to make their models as close as possible design wise to make it efficient to make moulds etc, cheers

 

[Fred@BTM]

any idea what gearbox you have at the moment? is it a D4F based engine? I haven't played with twingos much

 

[Jordysport]

well its the same as the mk3 Clio 1.2 TCE setup........ this is what i am trying to find out but what i have been told is that they are the same, just i don't have autodata 2010 only got upto 2005 ish on mine.

EDIT Yes its a D4FT engine

 

[Fred@BTM]

send me your reg and i'll check what box you have, i assume it'll be JB1/JB3/JC5 based, if it is its a straight swap for a 172/182 engine/box

 

[welshname]

send me your reg and i'll check what box you have, i assume it'll be JB1/JB3/JC5 based, if it is its a straight swap for a 172/182 engine/box

his reg is on the first picture

 

[Fred@BTM]

ooops

 

[Martin_172]

its one of the newer boxes with the linkage on top of the box from memory fred, same or similar to dci 100 box

 

[Sean6545]

Should be a JH3

 

[Jordysport]

Shepperdspie - do you mean the Twingo should be JH3?, do you have a 1*2 ??? as your local could really do with having an eye up of the engine bay, electrics, gearbox etc etc beer money in it!! btw i am in cully

 

[Sean6545]

Twingo should be a JH3 box yes. I had a 172 but now have got a 1.5 dci (long story). I am senior technician at Harts Dealer in Honiton, if you need any help just ask.

 

[Jordysport]

Twingo should be a JH3 box yes. I had a 172 but now have got a 1.5 dci (long story). I am senior technician at Harts Dealer in Honiton, if you need any help just ask.

Ok so its a JH3 Box, the clio is JB1/3 or JC5 are they similar boxes? i assume same series "J" but would original twingo shafts be satisfactiory for clio power and will they fit the box?.... had mine serviced at harts honiton last year and coming up for another service soon

 

[prabmire]

jordy remember the clio is rod select and twingo is cable, i was going to F4R mine but i'm saving for a 20vt now instead!

 

[Jordysport]

hey prab, am well confused atm, as some clio's have different gear linkage setups, ie flyby wire?

 

[Sean6545]

Clio has a selector rod underneath the car. Twingo has 2x cables that locate ontop of the box.

I think the easiest thing would be to use 172 box with the rod and gearstick assembly and make it fit your twingo.

Twingo is micra/clio 2 based so driveshafts shouldnt be a major issue.

Was yours the twingo with the dumpvalve?

 

[Jordysport]

Ah ok, so i assume the floor pan is micra? front end is Clio 2 based? so i rekon the gear linkage would have to be manipulated.. sounds tricky but suppose can't do much about it before hand.

and when you mean the driveshafts shouldn't be a big issue? was thinking using clio shafts as long as the taper and thread type are the same....

ermmm honestly... Yes

Got a few more Qs i've thought off:

1) Gear Selection
- Renault Clio III DCI 86 gearbox same as twingo obiously same as the TCE 100 aswell.
2) Clutch setup
- Cable? , Hydraulic? Etc etc.
3) Exhaust flange – appears same as twingo but distances from engine may be different.
4) Connection Wiring to Main body loom in fusebox??? Generic connectors or custom loom….

 

[Sean6545]

If the twingo box will fit the F4R the clutch will be hydraulic with a concentric slave cylinder (inside the bell housing).

Exhaust i Imagine would have to be a custom job to match the two together.
Electrics - You would have to speak to the likes of Foxy and the others who have put the f4r into other shells. It bassically means removing the imobiliser code and installing a device which will supply the ECU with 'a code' on the coded line to allow it to start. Then its just matching the engine to cabin connectors (ie. fuel pump feed, various feeds for guages which come from the ECU)

Its quite an in depth job.

Are you planning a phase two 172 engine or phase 1?

 

[Jordysport]

-Was thinking of using the Clio Box and clio shafts into twingo hubs if the taper and splines are the same. looking at pictures it appears that the suspension etc is the same but don't know how i could check.

-Exhaust well thats not a problem my Custom exhaust maker can just adjust my original (S&S system)

-Phase 2 172 engine as it has a FBW throttle.

Electrics i have no clue atm so will pm "Foxy"

 

[Fred@BTM]

no, use the twingo shafts/hubs/suspension, easier

FBW isn'ta problem, the mk1 boys "think" its easier to use the cable setup, its just as easy to use the FBW

 

[Jordysport]

yeah was planning using FBW throttle as twingo standard is FBW but i suppose it means more wires into the Car loom, shouldn't be alot of wires and i would think Renualt would try and make it generic and i might be lucky and they be similar plugs in the fusebox, but i suppose i could trace the wires using a multimeter. wish i had the wiring diags.

 

[Fred@BTM]

sound easy in practice but its not, the electric PAS (i assume it has it) and ABS will be a t**t to sort out

 

[Sean6545]

FBW throttle wont be a problem, use a clio pedal and just match your 6 wires from the pedal to the ECU. 2x 5v lives 2x earths and 2x signal wires.