Engine Dynamics for a rebuild?

[jesus]

Following on from this thread: http://www.cliosport.net/threads/engine-dropped-a-valve-what-would-you-do.798825/

I've been thinking. My engine has gone spectacularly wrong, totally shat itself and supposedly not even worth trying to rebuild.

Basically I'm thinking of buying a second hand engine in half decent condition and dropping it off with these for this rebuild: http://www.engine-dynamics.com/EngineDynamicsBuilds/pid252/cid298/ClioSport172/182EngineBuild.asp

1) Is it a good idea? I want to keep the car for a long time so don't mind spending the extra on it if I know it's going to last.
2) I've read good things about Engine Dynamics on here, but has anyone used them recently? What was it like?
3) Is that on the link actually a full rebuild of the engine? Will the engine basically be like a brand new one after everything is done?

I'm honestly clueless when it comes to all things engine so any/all help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.
x

 

[JamesBryan]

Surprised they don't put some better valves in with that rebuild service. It'd last years then, the standard valves are s**t as you now know.

 

[ParisPeach]

@AlexW

 

[masekwm]

£1,000 more gets you a brand new engine from Renault.

If you don't use the car, wait for one of the track cars to be broken up and grab the engine.

 

[sburrell93]

I personally don't think it's worth dropping nearly £2k on a rebuild of a 2nd hand engine that could potentially run on with no issues as it is. It'd always be a risk putting another 2nd hand engine in but that's a lot of money to spend just to get rid of some risk IMO.

 

[Jekyll]

I have had Alex (works for ED) work on my cars for years as well as a few others.

@Phase1sr has and he's particular about he's cars.

Brilliant guy and knows he's stuff.

 

[bloke]

what about a low mileage 197/200 engine?

 

[jesus]

I personally don't think it's worth dropping nearly £2k on a rebuild of a 2nd hand engine that could potentially run on with no issues as it is. It'd always be a risk putting another 2nd hand engine in but that's a lot of money to spend just to get rid of some risk IMO.

I'd love to get my own rebuilt but I can see that won't happen after reading advice on here. If I can pick up another one cheap, they all seem to be on 90-100k like mine was so that's why I'm thinking of a rebuild.

The last thing I'd want is to get a second hand engine, pay to get it all fitted, drive it for 10k and it goes pop like mine did.

Am I mistaken in thinking that the rebuild would make it like a new engine though? Genuine question as I really don't know. What sort of risks would there be (as you mentioned)?

what about a low mileage 197/200 engine?

Would that not be more hassle than it's worth? Or do they go straight in? I want as straight forward as possible as I really don't have a lot of money to spend on buying it and fitting etc.

 

[bloke]

use the guts in a normal 172/182 block and use the head and inlet off the other engine, not that bad to sort out.

you've got plenty of options though, i wouldn't be so paranoid about using another motor and it going pop on you, very rare they drop a valve head. seen plenty though killed from cocked up belt changes.

 

[sburrell93]

I'd love to get my own rebuilt but I can see that won't happen after reading advice on here. If I can pick up another one cheap, they all seem to be on 90-100k like mine was so that's why I'm thinking of a rebuild.

The last thing I'd want is to get a second hand engine, pay to get it all fitted, drive it for 10k and it goes pop like mine did.

Am I mistaken in thinking that the rebuild would make it like a new engine though? Genuine question as I really don't know. What sort of risks would there be (as you mentioned)?



Would that not be more hassle than it's worth? Or do they go straight in? I want as straight forward as possible as I really don't have a lot of money to spend on buying it and fitting etc. 😧

I've seen engines on 150k+ that run better than ones with half the mileage. Seems like it's just pot luck with these!

I was meaning just dropping another engine in without a rebuild when I was talking about risk. To me, getting another engine and fitting it to have it go bang a year down the line would indeed be s**t luck, but it's not worth £2k compared with maybe £300-400 for a replacement 2nd hand engine. The chances of that happening are incredibly slim as well.

Don't quote me here, but from what I can understand on the ED website, it's pretty much a case of everything replaced bar the pistons and rods. It's probably about as close to a new engine as you'd get without just buying one lol.

 

[mikekean]

Defintely get some uprated valves in whatever you do, ED do Supertec's for another £230 or so. I just fully rebuilt my motor and was surprised by the amount of wear on the valve stems, originally i thought it was the valve guides were worn due to the amount of axial play but after measuring the stems i found them to be quite worn. Slapped the Supertec's in measured the axial play and it is down to a few thou now.

I'm sure it's this wear that causes the head of the valve to drop off not that fact they are one piece, it's like they get worn the axial play causes side loading of the valve head against the seat and gradually fatigues the friction weld on the stem.

 

[Andyman]

If you have the money I would just go and buy a brand new engine from Renault or do the rebuild. You don't know what youre buying second hand. Most of these engines described as "runs perfectly" have only been bought and driven a few miles then broken. You might buy one which is goosed before a key is even turned, knocking or burning oil. Most engines for sale are sitting at 100k as you say. There will be engine wear there.
By the time your brand new engine has ran 100k you will most likely be on your second 2nd hand engine

 

[car.crash]

Buy a donor car and take what you need.
Buying a new engine is mental.
I could get 10 engines for 3 grand.

 

[Budgie]

Second hand engine, get someone to fit it cheap. bingo.

£500 all in. If you want to safeguard, buy a known all good one from a trusted member. New clutch and belt kit. £750/800 all in.

 

[thehazzle]

Second hand engine, get someone to fit it cheap. bingo.

£500 all in. If you want to safeguard, buy a known all good one from a trusted member. New clutch and belt kit. £750/800 all in.

Who's that with? I got quoted £1k+ for belts, cams and clutch fitted and that's with me supplying the parts with engine dynamics. I'd rather drive it til it dies and then replace at that price!

 

[Budgie]

Who's that with? I got quoted £1k+ for belts, cams and clutch fitted and that's with me supplying the parts with engine dynamics. I'd rather drive it til it dies and then replace at that price!

Give @Scrooge a shout.

 

[Scrooge]

There's plenty of options about and plenty of people on here (inc me) that can pop an engine with fresh belts in for you mate.

 

[Tim.]

If I was in your position I'd take the cheaper and easier option of sourcing an engine with history and getting some of the friendly folk on CS to make the magic happen. I'm not sure what you could do to improve its reliability when fitted but the chances of it going bang again have to be very small indeed, plus even if it does then you just repeat, and you've still saved money over going down the ED route.

Realistically nobody goes through more than two engine failures in a Trophy, right? @SharkyUK

 

[SharkyUK]

Realistically nobody goes through more than two engine failures in a Trophy, right? @SharkyUK

4th time lucky, @Tim. , 4th time lucky... :tonguewink:

 

[Gus]

I dont think its actually possible anymore to buy a brand new engine from Renault. PMS have the top and bottom half of the engine for sale on their site but I believe they are reconditioned units.

If it was me I would also look to buy a known good engine second hand. I would clean the engine up, re-paint it. Have the head sent to ALD for porting and supertech valves installing, perhaps ARP bolts too whilst the engine is out so you have easy access to remove the sump. You have the option of different cams too at this point for a bit more power.

Have the belts done whilst the engine is out and then have it swapped by a member on here. New clutch kit too whilst at it.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I dont think its actually possible anymore to buy a brand new engine from Renault. PMS have the top and bottom half of the engine for sale on their site but I believe they are reconditioned units.

If it was me I would also look to buy a known good engine second hand. I would clean the engine up, re-paint it. Have the head sent to ALD for porting and supertech valves installing, perhaps ARP bolts too whilst the engine is out so you have easy access to remove the sump. You have the option of different cams too at this point for a bit more power.

Have the belts done whilst the engine is out and then have it swapped by a member on here. New clutch kit too whilst at it.

I'd only send a head to ALD for porting if you want it to come back absolutely f**king ruined mate. On more than 1 occasion, he's left swarf/debris in oil ways and its scrapped the head and an engine in one case I believe. He's had too much skimmed off one as well raising the compression ratio up into the stratosphere!!

 

[Typhoon]

Supply them with Supertec valves mate. See if they'll use them.

 

[KitsonRis]

@jesus you are thinking the same as me with an ED build. Mine car is currently at 170k miles (the 35k miles that I have owned it have been very well looked after despite the track abuse). I have done pretty much 99% of the chassis upgrades I want and its time for me to move onto power.

I was looking at getting the "172/182 rebuild" from ED with a few other options, like cams, lightened flywheel, clutch, dephaser and hoses in an aim to bring this back to "new" plus a bit extra - might as well add these extras while the engine is out and easy to get to. Then the next step would be ITb's (but I would probably do that myself). The reasons I wanted this is for piece of mind and warrenty as I don't trust myself to take an engine apart, put nice parts in it and make it work 100% only to c**k it up and waste that money! From what has been said it is a bit of a waste of money, but for me I could see it worth it. I also don't have the time, space or consistent help (brother can't help me all day every weekend for a few months building it eventhough he would love to!).

If it were a simpler engine I would so give it a go myself (something without an ECU and complex timing. Somthing old school!).

But what I have been told you can get a turbo build for less and have a bit more power. I want NA, because noise, so turbo isn't an option for myself personally. Plus everyone is going turbo now.
This is all future problems for me, need the car working to start with damn thing.

 

[jesus]

All I'm thinking with the rebuild is that my engine has got to 111k before going pop, which is still low mileage for its age. If I put one from another 182 in that's done, say, 80k - I might have another 30-40k out of it if I'm lucky.

If I put a rebuilt one in there I may get 130k out of it and I'd be a very happy chappy. I do plan on keeping the car forever so that's my way of thinking. £2k for a rebuild plus buying an engine is a heck of a lot of money though.

I essentially only paid £3100 for the Trophy on 68k (£3800 but I got £700 back in parts I took off it too) and all I've spent on it really is maintenance so even if I spend another 3 grand on it, it's worth what they're currently selling for, but will have a nice fresh rebuilt engine.

Another way of looking at it is spending all that money on it and I spent the same money years ago on buying the whole car itself. A bit mental but I do love that thing.

I've always said I'll never get rid of this thing and I do want to keep it going for years to come. But am I getting caught up in the moment?

(Plus I need a form of transport asap!).

 

[car.crash]

Man maths is coming into play now.

 

[cs_dave]

Buy engine drop in enjoy it until it blows repeat lol

 

[cs_dave]

Did i say ill have a 182 lump ready to send this weekend ;-) lol

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[jesus]

Man maths is coming into play now.

It's either that or have the hassle of another one going pop a few years down the line and being in this same situation now.

It wouldn't be as bad if I could fit an engine myself confidently, I'd just bang a second hand one in but it's the hassle of the whole situation that I could do without! I know people on here have offered and it is highly appreciated, but I can't keep asking people to fit engines for me when the next one dies.

 

[cs_dave]

It's either that or have the hassle of another one going pop a few years down the line and being in this same situation now.

It wouldn't be as bad if I could fit an engine myself confidently, I'd just bang a second hand one in but it's the hassle of the whole situation that I could do without! I know people on here have offered and it is highly appreciated, but I can't keep asking people to fit engines for me when the next one dies.

Yeh you can if the barbie is on lmao

 

[car.crash]

I hear what your saying. I've seen very expensive from tuners go pop too.
There's no dead cert on a engine mate.
Is it lack of tools or knowledge or bravery stopping you from fitting your own?

 

[KitsonRis]

(Plus I need a form of transport asap!).

I have a 1.4 Clio for sale which is cheap.....however I need it until the 172 is fixed, which should be hopefully this weekend.
I bought this car to keep me going over last winter while the 172 was getting some serious love.
Sorry a little off topic and a shamelss plug for the advert!

 

[jesus]

I hear what your saying. I've seen very expensive from tuners go pop too.
There's no dead cert on a engine mate.
Is it lack of tools or knowledge or bravery stopping you from fitting your own?

It's the fact that if I fitted it all and did everything right, and it didn't start, I'd end up torching the f**king thing.

 

[welshname]

It's the fact that if I fitted it all and did everything right, and it didn't start, I'd end up torching the f**king thing.

Figuring out why it won't start after a refit isn't too difficult at all so I wouldn't worry about that one.

Fitting the engine itself isn't too hard either, just requires the right tools and patience. It's a simple case of methodically taking it all apart and noting it all down, then reverse order.

 

[imprezaworks]

Can you not put a 'need a hand please' wanted thread up. Pound says you will get offers mate

 

[Tim.]

It sounds like you think all engines go pop at 120k, and I don't think that's the case. You could put one in on 80k and it could do another 100k with regular maintenance, maybe 200k, who knows?!

The question I'd be asking is how many standard engines fail that haven't seen consistently heavy track abuse, haven't been modified, but have been looked after with regular oil and belt changes? I honestly don't know the answer, but my gut feel is yours was a rarity.

 

[KitsonRis]

The question I'd be asking is how many standard engines fail that haven't seen consistently heavy track abuse, haven't been modified, but have been looked after with regular oil and belt changes? I honestly don't know the answer, but my gut feel is yours was a rarity.

^^ This. Mine has done 170k and quite a few of those miles have not been easy.
I was only thinking of doing an engine build not for reliability but for power gains and to give it back its edge. If it wasn't a track car then when it goes pop I would be putting in a second hand engine, and while it was out just change a few things to help it alogn a bit (ARP bolts etc...)

 

[jesus]

It sounds like you think all engines go pop at 120k, and I don't think that's the case. You could put one in on 80k and it could do another 100k with regular maintenance, maybe 200k, who knows?!

The question I'd be asking is how many standard engines fail that haven't seen consistently heavy track abuse, haven't been modified, but have been looked after with regular oil and belt changes? I honestly don't know the answer, but my gut feel is yours was a rarity.

Mine has lived on a track all its life so I suppose it was bound to happen sooner rather than later! I don't think 120k is the cut off point, but fitting a used engine in my car will always be (or at least feel like) a gamble.

 

[bloke]

the wife's 172 has done well over 200,000 miles now, got it on 140,000. i kick it's head in most of the time when i drive it and it's still going strong.

 

[Budgie]

Buy engine and clutch.

Host BBQ.

Invite CS.

Watch the magic happen

 

[JamesBryan]

Buy engine and clutch.

Host BBQ.

Invite CS.

Watch the magic happen

By magic you mean all the burgers will get eaten, all the beers drank and an engine fitted backwards 😂