Engine Rebuild Options

[Fishfire]

Hi All,

So a while ago the engine in my 172 let go lost all power on the motorway and meant a long drive home in an AA van....sad times.
I duly replaced the engine with the intention of 'doing something' with the broken engine. Until now its just sat in my garage, but now I've got the urge to do something of a slow time project with it.

On inspection of the broken engine, I found two of the cam followers had broken and everything else seems OK, so.....what to do with it?

I've got the urge to boost it, but should I keep a standard engine and build a low boost system similar to the ED package or is it worth the hassle and expense of ripping the block apart and fitting low comp pistons and going the whole hog?

The car is my daily drive, so I'm not planning on turning it into a track monster.

I've spent a few hours on here reading some builds and cobbled together some ideas and thoughts, but would really appreciate some input from you guys. Thoughts on what works well and what doesn't, extra bits needed, what parts from other boosted Renaults can be used, pit falls etc etc

I'm mechanically competent but have never done a N/A to F/I conversion before.


Cheers!

 

[Robbie Corbett]

I would start off by having the head off your old engine, inspect the bores, have the sump off and take a main and big end cap off and inspect the bearings.

If all looks great then you could just refresh the head and have it as a spare good std engine. Other wise I would go full hog.

Whats your potential budget?

 

[Fishfire]

So after a late night reading up.on builds on this forum, I'm leaning toward a low boost system to keep it as simple as possible being my first na to turbo conversion.

There a 182 turbo conversion going on at the moment which I'm watching with great interest and may replicate using the EFI boost module and mapping.

Fuel return looks interesting though and does specify a mk1 172 fuel rail which could be problematic.

I will, as you say, check the main bearings.

Ref the head: is it worth changing anything out on it before it gets bolted back together?

Cheers!

 

[colesy]

As you’ll have the head off I’d fit a Megane 225 headgasket which is what mine is getting when it goes back together. Standard gasket is 0.65mm and the Megane one is 1.30mm so should lower CR a bit. Apart from that for low boost it should be okay.

 

[Fishfire]

As you’ll have the head off I’d fit a Megane 225 headgasket which is what mine is getting when it goes back together. Standard gasket is 0.65mm and the Megane one is 1.30mm so should lower CR a bit. Apart from that for low boost it should be okay.

Awsome, appreciate that 👍

 

[colesy]

No worries, worth doing ARP rod bolts too.

 

[Fishfire]

Mmmm, thoughts on this phase 1 injector rail?

Renault Clio 172 Phase 1 Fuel Rail with injectors | eBay

<p dir="ltr">Renault Clio 172 Phase 1 Fuel Rail with injectors. Used condition. All working prior to removal.</p>

www.ebay.co.uk

Looks similar to the one I currently have on mine, but I could be wrong

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

Ph1 uses a fuel return system and has a fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail. Ph2 is a returnless system. Granted they do look the same.

 

[Fishfire]

Ph1 uses a fuel return system and has a fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail. Ph2 is a returnless system. Granted they do look the same.

Any way to tell the difference from the pic?

Just run the part number on the rail, and its coming up as a laguna II 2003 fuel rail....are the rails interchangeable?

 

[Robbie Corbett]

So after a late night reading up.on builds on this forum, I'm leaning toward a low boost system to keep it as simple as possible being my first na to turbo conversion.

There a 182 turbo conversion going on at the moment which I'm watching with great interest and may replicate using the EFI boost module and mapping.

Fuel return looks interesting though and does specify a mk1 172 fuel rail which could be problematic.

I will, as you say, check the main bearings.

Ref the head: is it worth changing anything out on it before it gets bolted back together?

Cheers!

Yes its worth re-lapping valves minimum.

If you have a decent budget (you didn't say, that means a lot) then I would be upgrading valves to supertech (there are several other options), having the head inspected for flatness and potentially skimmed as a result and obviously give it a good clean up.

I personally would stick with standard cams and porting for a turbo application, the ports are pretty good from the factory and cams are fine unless you are shooting for relatively high power.

Standard pistons are known to fail with extended high RPM, I believe due to ring land failure - boost will not help that situation. So while many run standard pistons at 200-250bhp I would likely upgrade.

I believe standard rods are fairly decent, people often recommend using ARP rod bolts. I chose not to do this when refreshing my car as I don't like disturbing the bottom end without giving them a good measure up at the same time, for me that would often mean new bearing shells which I would swap around to get a clearance I wanted and by that point you may as well sort the rest properly too.

Crank looks like a sturdy lump, I would leave it for a sub 300bhp build other than inspecting and measuring. If your feeling flush you could have it professionally inspected and balanced (together with rods and pistons). My E46 rods and pistons were within a couple of grams of one another however I don't know if the FR4 is matched nearly as well (an engine builder on here would be able to tell you). As an idea I would typically spend 6-8hours just measuring and swapping bearings. I bough three sets of big end bearings for the last build I did just so I could swap shells about enough to get my target clearance across everything. That adds cost and time.

I would personally go full aftermarket management, be it MS2, AEM or something more exotic. I have had brilliant success with MS2, MS3 and AEM Infinity for other builds so they are my general goto's. At that point you can run any map sensor and any injector size that you want.

My perfect turbo build would be something like:
GTX2860r (genuine)
Bosch EV14 550cc/min injectors (genuine) or genuine deka 630cc however getting genuine dekas seems to be difficult
Standard rebuilt head with supertech valves (inconel exhaust) and MLS head gasket (probably Cometic) potentially ARP head stud kit
Mahle forged pistons (if available, most seem to go with Wossner) 9.5:1 cr, but certainly not below 9:1
Std rods with ARP bolts however if a piston rod combo was reasonable money why not
Std crank, inspected and balanced together with rods, pistons fly wheel and pulley (meg keyed)
Std inlet manifold
Probably a log exhaust manifold unless a nice tubular was available and happened to fit within the bay nicely
MS3 ecu
Std coil, ht leads and a couple of grades cooler plugs
Return type fuel rail with Bosch 044 (or equivalent) fuel pump - not sure on regulator std might be just fine
OEM bearings
Std oil new oil pump, water pump etc
Oil cooler, forge intercooler, STD rad.
etc.

I think thats in the ball park of 3.5k....and likely a happy 350-375bhp not that I've thought about the subject much at all

Or a cheap build is more like £1500 with aftermarket management, std engine and Chinese turbo at 230-250bhp.... many do just fine and enjoy that. Ultimately I decided against any of the above because I really like how the Clio drives with sub 200bhp, the chassis, brakes, gearbox are fine with that, fun and safe. I am plowing money into a different project which is imo a better base. These days something like a K swapped Clio would appeal far more.

You could also think on a used supercharger kit, they do often come up, they have various advantages over turbo charging especially in such a tight bay.

Enjoy

 

[Fishfire]

Yes its worth re-lapping valves minimum.

If you have a decent budget (you didn't say, that means a lot) then I would be upgrading valves to supertech (there are several other options), having the head inspected for flatness and potentially skimmed as a result and obviously give it a good clean up.

I personally would stick with standard cams and porting for a turbo application, the ports are pretty good from the factory and cams are fine unless you are shooting for relatively high power.

Standard pistons are known to fail with extended high RPM, I believe due to ring land failure - boost will not help that situation. So while many run standard pistons at 200-250bhp I would likely upgrade.

I believe standard rods are fairly decent, people often recommend using ARP rod bolts. I chose not to do this when refreshing my car as I don't like disturbing the bottom end without giving them a good measure up at the same time, for me that would often mean new bearing shells which I would swap around to get a clearance I wanted and by that point you may as well sort the rest properly too.

Crank looks like a sturdy lump, I would leave it for a sub 300bhp build other than inspecting and measuring. If your feeling flush you could have it professionally inspected and balanced (together with rods and pistons). My E46 rods and pistons were within a couple of grams of one another however I don't know if the FR4 is matched nearly as well (an engine builder on here would be able to tell you). As an idea I would typically spend 6-8hours just measuring and swapping bearings. I bough three sets of big end bearings for the last build I did just so I could swap shells about enough to get my target clearance across everything. That adds cost and time.

I would personally go full aftermarket management, be it MS2, AEM or something more exotic. I have had brilliant success with MS2, MS3 and AEM Infinity for other builds so they are my general goto's. At that point you can run any map sensor and any injector size that you want.

My perfect turbo build would be something like:
GTX2860r (genuine)
Bosch EV14 550cc/min injectors (genuine) or genuine deka 630cc however getting genuine dekas seems to be difficult
Standard rebuilt head with supertech valves (inconel exhaust) and MLS head gasket (probably Cometic) potentially ARP head stud kit
Mahle forged pistons (if available, most seem to go with Wossner) 9.5:1 cr, but certainly not below 9:1
Std rods with ARP bolts however if a piston rod combo was reasonable money why not
Std crank, inspected and balanced together with rods, pistons fly wheel and pulley (meg keyed)
Std inlet manifold
Probably a log exhaust manifold unless a nice tubular was available and happened to fit within the bay nicely
MS3 ecu
Std coil, ht leads and a couple of grades cooler plugs
Return type fuel rail with Bosch 044 (or equivalent) fuel pump - not sure on regulator std might be just fine
OEM bearings
Std oil new oil pump, water pump etc
Oil cooler, forge intercooler, STD rad.
etc.

I think thats in the ball park of 3.5k....and likely a happy 350-375bhp not that I've thought about the subject much at all

Or a cheap build is more like £1500 with aftermarket management, std engine and Chinese turbo at 230-250bhp.... many do just fine and enjoy that. Ultimately I decided against any of the above because I really like how the Clio drives with sub 200bhp, the chassis, brakes, gearbox are fine with that, fun and safe. I am plowing money into a different project which is imo a better base. These days something like a K swapped Clio would appeal far more.

You could also think on a used supercharger kit, they do often come up, they have various advantages over turbo charging especially in such a tight bay.

Enjoy

Rob, really appreciate you taking the time to write that up and its given me loads to think on!

Daft as it sounds I'd not given too much thought to budget, as my thinking was it'll just take a little longer to get it finished as the cost goes up.

My current thoughts are to keep it relatively simple and go for a low boost/std engine set up and see how i get on. As I have two engines to play with, once the engines are swapped out, I'd have to option to rebuild the other engine, if that makes any sense!

I'll get the head off, change out the valves and send it off to get it checked and skimmed if required, and get the valves lapped in properly.

Again, really appreciate the input 😁

 

[Robbie Corbett]

No worries mate, good luck and enjoy it. Loads of ways to skin a cat and lots of people have done great builds so well work a look at in the projects section.