EPAS Conversion question

[Martin_172]

Guys I've searched and searched and can't seem to find a definite answer.

So I'm looking at doing an EPAS conversion but the difference for me is I'm currently re shelling a 182 into my DCi van so it's currently running the full DCi EPAS.

I'm going to run the pure Motorsport kit on the engine to remove the pump as well as the air con compressor but my understanding is people continue to run the 182 rack just Tapped off?

Should I use the 182 rack in this method or should I just leave the dci rack and run 182 rods and rod ends?

 

[1985michael182]

Leave the dci rack m8

 

[Martin_172]

Leave the dci rack m8

Thanks mate I couldn't find a definite answer as everyone seems to leave the standard rack in place, that makes my job easier as im using the dci subframe so don't need to touch it!

 

[1985michael182]

I would use the 182 subframe and fit your dci rack to it.
People only use the Renault sport rack because it's cheaper to put a link pipe in than buy the rack and epas column

 

[Martin_172]

I would use the 182 subframe and fit your dci rack to it.
People only use the Renault sport rack because it's cheaper to put a link pipe in than buy the rack and epas column

the racks are the same anyway I just need to drill a hole for the 4th mount, the 182 is a cat c write off that's been poorly repaired so id rather stick with my subframe that I know is good and straight, that was my reasoning

 

[1985michael182]

I maybe wrong but I thought the R.S. subframes were wider track.

Also the Epas racks a different from the Pas ones. Theres no resistance moving the Epas ones because there's no piston inside moving oil through the pipes.
It's just a greased up rack and pinion

 

[1985michael182]

Also the Epas rack bolts on with solid mounts an the R.S. ones are on rubber bushes

 

[Martin_172]

ah good to know about the rack cheers, at least theres no rack bushes to worry about then!

na subframes are identical the wider track and extra castor just comes from the arms (apparently!) I found an old thread comparing subframes and they were identical

 

[1985michael182]

I've too have learnt something then

 

[RSPez]

Sorry to dig this up.
But what is the advantage of running EPAS over Hydraulic PS?

Surely you get more feel with hydraulic?

Pez

 

[Mertin]

Sorry to dig this up.
But what is the advantage of running EPAS over Hydraulic PS?

Surely you get more feel with hydraulic?

Pez

Eliminates chances of fluid leaks which is a big plus point when it comes to track days and motorsport

Frees up space in engine bay and allows subframe to be dropped without the worry of hoses restricting you

For me it was the ease of maintenance that made me go for epas

Resistance can be adjusted for those who want heavier steering on track but retain manouverability in pits / workshop etc by lightening the feel

 

[Crayola]

dCi rack is quicker turn to turn but quite flimsy!

 

[Martin_172]

quicker rack
less weight
less power zapped from engine
ease of maintenance (I can get my engine out in no time now with no PAS and aircon to worry about.

now the cars are getting older they are prone to cracked pipes causing leaks, pumps failing and as said above no fluid is an advantage for a track day where a loss of fluid can be dangerous

 

[1985michael182]

An example of why it's better.

With EPAS if you wanted to drop the sub frame all you need to do regarding the rack is undo 1 pinch bolt at the bottom of the column and you are free to go.
With PAS you have to struggle like hell to try and undo the high and low pressure pipes with 0 space. Once they are loose you piss oil all over the place because you cant direct the oil anywhere.
With out, you free up loads of room at the front of the engine where the pump was, theres no common oil pipe leaks dripping oil all over your bay. No common PAS oil overheating on track and potentially causing a fire risk spraying all over your red hot engine.
No fluid to change, no servicing.
It also reduces alot of weight of the pump,pipes,reservoir and oil.

You basically have this....

A rack and a column with a motor attached.

Simples.

If you are thinking about doing it, just get on with it you wont regret it.

2 ways to do it.

Use the Sport rack with a link pipe and blanked off ports. Half fill with fresh pas oil and then forget about it.

Or, use the full DCI setup to include the DCI EPAS rack and column with Sport inner tie rods and track rod ends.

There is an EPAS rack which is a longer rack and one which is shorter, ideally you want the shorter one.
Think @YorkshireKyle has the info on which vehicle has the right one.

The End

 

[Usr117063]

Like somebody was murdered. Just today have I got things cleaned up and the subframe outside ready to clean. Cant wait for epas now.

 

[RSPez]

An example of why it's better.

With EPAS if you wanted to drop the sub frame all you need to do regarding the rack is undo 1 pinch bolt at the bottom of the column and you are free to go.
With PAS you have to struggle like hell to try and undo the high and low pressure pipes with 0 space. Once they are loose you piss oil all over the place because you cant direct the oil anywhere.
With out, you free up loads of room at the front of the engine where the pump was, theres no common oil pipe leaks dripping oil all over your bay. No common PAS oil overheating on track and potentially causing a fire risk spraying all over your red hot engine.
No fluid to change, no servicing.
It also reduces alot of weight of the pump,pipes,reservoir and oil.

You basically have this....
View attachment 1450293
A rack and a column with a motor attached.
View attachment 1450296

Simples.

If you are thinking about doing it, just get on with it you wont regret it.

2 ways to do it.

Use the Sport rack with a link pipe and blanked off ports. Half fill with fresh pas oil and then forget about it.

Or, use the full DCI setup to include the DCI EPAS rack and column with Sport inner tie rods and track rod ends.

There is an EPAS rack which is a longer rack and one which is shorter, ideally you want the shorter one.
Think @YorkshireKyle has the info on which vehicle has the right one.

The End

This was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

Maybe at some point this year I will look at it properly.
Would you do it to a road car as well that was the one question I forgot to ask?

Thanks everyone for your input

Pez

 

[1985michael182]

Yea why not? You can adjust the assistance with the variable switch you can get off Ebay in a kit.

 

[RSPez]

Yea why not? You can adjust the assistance with the variable switch you can get off Ebay in a kit.

Thank you. You have been a great help.
IL have a look see if Incan find the kit on eBay now

Pez

 

[Crayola]

As @1985michael182 says, you free up so much room in the bay! The safety side of it outweighs the feeling HPAS gives

The dCi racks are all the same. The 1.2/1.4/1.6 16v have more lock to lock but look the same pretty much which is where some people go wrong. I'm sure the dCi is 2.25 lock to lock, the petrol non sport are 2.5 and the 1*2 is 2.8

dCi racks are fine for track unless you're running slicks then you might want to beef up the mounts by welding on some gussets to stop rack flex. And the EPAS columns are slight weaker on the UJ's

I've left the 172 manual column in and stuck a dCi rack on mine. The car weighs barely anything so unless you're built like a racing snake you should be fine

 

[ericd2477]

Hi guys, I am in the middle of the EPAS conversion and I have fitted the column but when I come to the rack it is mounted different. Can you advise please ?

 

[1985michael182]

In what sense?

 

[1985michael182]

The rack and the column will only mate one way as there is a notch for the bolt to pass through. Make sure your rack is centred so not steering left or right.

 

[Crayola]

If you've got a dCi rack then they bolt up differently

They dont have bushes and bolt directly to the subframe

 

[ericd2477]

If you've got a dCi rack then they bolt up differently

They dont have bushes and bolt directly to the subframe

Yes thats what I was struggling with, just found a picture that shows the mounts for the hydraulic rack removed and the DCI rack bolted onto the subframe. Do I have to swap over the Tie Rods to get the length ?

 

[Crayola]

Yes thats what I was struggling with, just found a picture that shows the mounts for the hydraulic rack removed and the DCI rack bolted onto the subframe. Do I have to swap over the Tie Rods to get the length ?

Yes you will mate

172 track rods are longer

 

[ericd2477]

Another question about electrics for EPAS. What size wire should be used for Main power supply to EPAS ECU ?

 

[1985michael182]

What size fuse did your kit supply?

 

[1985michael182]

It's usually like a 50/60amp fuse. You want your cable to be higher rated for ampage than your fuse.

So for example 8.5 mm cable is rated for 63amps with your weak point being your fuse at 60amps

 

[Crayola]

60A inline fuse and use cable rated for 70A (10mm)

You want your cable rated to higher than your fuse so you don't start melting wire before popping a fuse

 

[1985michael182]

Copy cat

 

[Crayola]

Lol, I got all the stuff for doing mine... Then just left it all in a box and stuck with no PAS haha

 

[1985michael182]

Arms like popeye

 

[Crayola]

Arms like popeye

It's not bad, I use it daily 😂

 

[Martin_172]

Just a bump for this, ive been pulling my hair out!

so left the DCI rack in place, its not been removed. Fitted brand new genuine Renault inner track rods and rod ends both from a 182.

if I centre the rack, the steering wheel is way out from centred, if I centre it either clockwise or anti clockwise then the rack isn't centred and I get more lock one way than the other.

what am I missing? has the car possibly had a new rack at some point and someone has fitted the pinch bolt 180 degree out!? if that's even possible.

I've been lying under it as I cant get access to a ramp for it currently so I'm pulling my hair out!

its got a genuine Renault SMI rack and im getting 2.75 turns lock to lock

 

[Usr117063]

Epas column is detachable, allen head holding lower joint

 

[Usr117063]

Makes putting the column in much easier as you fit the lower part and pinch bolt first then the motor

 

[1985michael182]

You can only fit the lower column to rack joint one way. Theres a little cut out which the pinch bolt passes through

 

[Martin_172]

So there is a connection higher up above the pinch bolt then? Could it be out?!

 

[Usr117063]

Take bolt out then remove column, turn wheel so is straight with wheels then put back, there’s plenty of splines to do this, if it’s out a hair then just sort with alignment

 

[MarcB]

I have this that might help ?