F.a.o Clio Williams or valves owners (looking to buy need advice)

[tommy g]

Hi, I'm looking into buying a Williams 2 that's local for sale. Is there anything to look out for apart from the sunroof leaking and the rear arches? The one I'm looking at has only had 3 owners from new and has full service history and looks very well looked after.

Thanks tommy

 

[Chris Lewis]

No sunroof on a williams 2. So probably isnt a williams 2.

 

[tommy g]

Sorry is Deffo a non sunroof. I didn't look tbh and don't know the differences in Williams 1/2/3

 

[Bluebeard]

Rear arches aren't really a worry, they're easily sorted.

You need to get underneath the car and check the inner and outer sills. Inner sills can't be seen until you get underneath and are both costly and labour intensive to repair.

The problem is nowadays, most have been 'fixed' using mastik/filler/fibreglass and you won't know from just looking at the car normally.

It is that reason i've had to scrap 2 of my valvers.

 

[Coops Mk1]

as above, sills will be rusty or sure and will need work unless theres a comprehensive check been done to prove otherwise of evidence/proof of a well executed repair on them

apart from that its just usual car stuff, wear and tear on suspension, check engine sounds smooth, check gearbox isn't notchy when cold, etc etc

 

[tommy g]

Rear arches aren't really a worry, they're easily sorted.

You need to get underneath the car and check the inner and outer sills. Inner sills can't be seen until you get underneath and are both costly and labour intensive to repair.

The problem is nowadays, most have been 'fixed' using mastik/filler/fibreglass and you won't know from just looking at the car normally.

It is that reason i've had to scrap 2 of my valvers.

I was hoping you would reply dan. I'll make sure the sills are good.

as above, sills will be rusty or sure and will need work unless theres a comprehensive check been done to prove otherwise of evidence/proof of a well executed repair on them

apart from that its just usual car stuff, wear and tear on suspension, check engine sounds smooth, check gearbox isn't notchy when cold, etc etc

Will do. I've seen the buyers guide on the willie forum now so there's quite abit bit. The bloke said there loads of history so when I view it on Friday I'll make sure I check everything.

 

[Bluebeard]

I wish i'd taken pictures of my grey one before I weighed it in.

It looked mint from the outside, not a mark on it. Even the sills looked original! Got it on a ramp and it was held together with silicon sealer/filler and about 3 layers of stonechip paint. You could stab holes all the way down the inner sills with a screwdriver.

 

[tommy g]

f**king hell not ideal. I'll have a poke around then. Fingers crossed its a good example

 

[tommy g]

Are they ok to be used as a daily?

 

[MartinR]

Perfectly fine as a daily just have a very hard clutch compared to the mk2, but that is easily sorted.

I mirror the above comments about sills and rust.

 

[tommy g]

Spot on, I've seen there is a soft clutch cable conversion

 

[Chris Lewis]

If the car has been jacked up properly, the sills will be fine.

 

[Bluebeard]

If the car has been jacked up properly, the sills will be fine.

Eh?? What's that got to do with the price of fish??

 

[MartinR]

Spot on, I've seen there is a soft clutch cable conversion

Yeh its a box off job well pushed aside, Pretty easy to do and makes aload of difference.

If the car has been jacked up properly, the sills will be fine.

Crack?

 

[Chip-mk1]

As Daniel says, the only real problem is piss poor previous repairs that you need to correct, sometimes they can write a car off that would have been ok otherwise!

 

[Chris Lewis]

Eh?? What's that got to do with the price of fish??

It has nothing to do with the price of fish. Or with the price of gold. It does however have a lot to do with the degree of rust likely to have accumulated.

If you jack the car up on the sills at the jacking point, the stone chip protection becomes broken and cracked and this lets water into the gaps in the sills and eventually they rust. Those cars with intact stone chip have little or not rust on the sills.

How else would metal rust if it was completely coated in paint? Bare metal rusts, painted metal does not.

If you jack the car on the chassis rails, with a block of wood this doesnt happen.

 

[Chris Lewis]

Yeh its a box off job well pushed aside, Pretty easy to do and makes aload of difference.




Crack?

Yes it cracks the stone chip. That is how the rust starts, If you have a look on the rear jacking point of an original rust free williams (if you can find one) you will see the rar jacking point is covered in a stone chip and will not be rusty. If you look at a car that has been jacked up here, the stone chip will have been squashed and cracked and the rust will have formed on the small box section there. That rust then spreads down the sills. Same with the front renault jacking point too.

If you see the car has good intact stone chip, you will see a correlation that there will be little rust on the sills.

So crack indeed.

 

[2 live]

The above is a valid point. But it doesn't take into account that a simple stonechip could also start the problems

 

[Bluebeard]

It has nothing to do with the price of fish. Or with the price of gold. It does however have a lot to do with the degree of rust likely to have accumulated.

If you jack the car up on the sills at the jacking point, the stone chip protection becomes broken and cracked and this lets water into the gaps in the sills and eventually they rust. Those cars with intact stone chip have little or not rust on the sills.

How else would metal rust if it was completely coated in paint? Bare metal rusts, painted metal does not.

If you jack the car on the chassis rails, with a block of wood this doesnt happen.

So by your reasoning, my inner sills were rotten due to someone jacking up the car incorrectly?!

 

[Cookson]

Take a magnet with you to check for filler

 

[Drafting]

So by your reasoning, my inner sills were rotten due to someone jacking up the car incorrectly?!

Dont think he meant that jacking is the direct cause...just that it may be one of many reasons why

 

[16v_er]

headgaskets, went on my 2 old valvers- the 1st one hydrolocked.

 

[tommy g]

Taking a magnet with me. Got one from work today. The trader is going to hate haha. Going to go with a checklist!

 

[Stu.]

This was on one that had failed an MOT on rust underneath. It looked quite tidy, But it was rotten. Worst I've seen. Shame that it had been botched! Cheack rear inner arches all round and at the end of the sills especially. Use a skrewdriver or something to just poke about in there.

Under the Underseal there was someone hiding in the hole, In the passenger foot well! :lolup:

 

[Daz.]

I'd worry if I ever went back into Mk1 ownership - It was bad enough ten years ago!

 

[Chris Lewis]

So by your reasoning, my inner sills were rotten due to someone jacking up the car incorrectly?!

The entire underside of my car is covered in paint, and then stone chip. Only the exhaust tunnel is not. There is no external way for the sills to rust if that stone chip is intact. If you have rust on the jacking points, or rust arches and water has got into the sills, then you have a problem.

But in the 14 or so williams i have owned, i have never had a single one with any rust on the sills. So to say it is common is misleading at best and poor advice at worse.

 

[Chris Lewis]

Dont think he meant that jacking is the direct cause...just that it may be one of many reasons why

No i did mean that incorrect jacking of the car is the direct cause. If you take a 1 tonne car, and push it upwards with a piece of metal, what do you think happens to the thin layer of paint and stone chip in between the two solid metal objects?

 

[Chris Lewis]

Without wishing to take this thread off topic, checking the jacking points on the car for intact paint was one of the first things i was taught to do when buying a car.

If you have not heard about this, it would tend to explain why some posters think rusty sills are common, whereas none of my cars have had such problems.

 

[Bluebeard]

The entire underside of my car is covered in paint, and then stone chip. Only the exhaust tunnel is not. There is no external way for the sills to rust if that stone chip is intact. If you have rust on the jacking points, or rust arches and water has got into the sills, then you have a problem.

But in the 14 or so williams i have owned, i have never had a single one with any rust on the sills. So to say it is common is misleading at best and poor advice at worse.

Are you confusing sills with INNER sills???

I've had 4 Williams' and only one of them had rusty inner sills. The other three had scabby arches as per usual.

I've had around 8 valvers and apart from my current one, all had rusty inner sills. Granted some were not 'that' major, but two were proper bad.

I thought that's what the op wanted to know, what were common faults on mk1 clios? Rust is the biggest one. If you deny that then you're a pellet.

Maybe I'm lying for some ultimate forum cool points? Or maybe I'm passing on my advice based on the cars I've owned. Who knows!

What about the red one that stu has posted on the previous page?! That whole back Wing is full of rust and filler! Look at the state of it!

Either way, I've decided that you're a chopper, so I'm now out.

 

[Chris Lewis]

Are you confusing sills with INNER sills???

I've had 4 Williams' and only one of them had rusty inner sills. The other three had scabby arches as per usual.

I've had around 8 valvers and apart from my current one, all had rusty inner sills. Granted some were not 'that' major, but two were proper bad.

I thought that's what the op wanted to know, what were common faults on mk1 clios? Rust is the biggest one. If you deny that then you're a pellet.

Maybe I'm lying for some ultimate forum cool points? Or maybe I'm passing on my advice based on the cars I've owned. Who knows!

What about the red one that stu has posted on the previous page?! That whole back Wing is full of rust and filler! Look at the state of it!

Either way, I've decided that you're a chopper, so I'm now out.

Why would the inner sills rust? Unless water has trickeld in from a rusty arch or neglect elsewhere? I always take the carpets up and look, and have never seen any rust down the inside, outside, top bottom or any which way you like on any of the williams i have owned. I just dont beleive it is a big problem.

I would suggest that the 1.8 16v are not so well looked after as the williams, due to the type of people who own them and the difference in price. Maybe they are rusty, but the question was about williams, not the 1.8 16v.

I would be more concerned about arches, the chassis rails around aux the fuel tank, and under the front and rear bumpers, bolt holes and the holes holding the splash guard plastic clips. These are nearly always rusty on all williams that have not had work. Most arches are ok if the car has been looked after.

 

[Bluebeard]

I refer you to the thread title.... FAO Williams or valver owners.

 

[Chris Lewis]

I refer you to the thread title.... FAO Williams or valver owners.

And the post clearly says he is going to see a williams. Stating that a 25 year old valver with 10 owners has rusty sills and so most williams do is disingenuous. Most williams do not have rusty sills. Those that do were probably broken for parts many years ago. Sure some do. But not most, as the first few opening posts contest to. I have no idea about valvers, as i have no interest in them. You may well be right anout them, you probably know more about them than me.

 

[Stu.]

Heres another of my awesome purchases. Inner was just as bad as outer, it was rotten up inside the car too. Dont have many pics though.

Heres front passenger jacking area.

only needed 'minor' welding when i bought it. Sideskirts hid most of it!

 

[Coops Mk1]

Williams 3 of win

and how to sort it

 

[Chris Lewis]

You broke that car years ago coops, so hardly a 'current' example.

 

[Kid A]

:argue:

I love forums sometimes.