FAO Those With Existing Safety Devices Roll Cage, Msa Eligibilty

[Pauleds]

Don't know yet as ive not long emailed them

 

[Ads29]

I know the feeling @Pauleds, sent me a new off a few weeks ago, hopefully new one will be back in before long now

 

[Pauleds]

They replied yesterday saying they can't move the harness bar due to homologation.
Crap that as I don't like the diagonals cutting across where the harnesses go. Guess theres nothing else to do about it.

 

[eon172]

They replied yesterday saying they can't move the harness bar due to homologation.
Crap that as I don't like the diagonals cutting across where the harnesses go. Guess theres nothing else to do about it.

Fair enough, thanks for sharing.

 

[Andy P]

This is mine fitted @Pauleds, @Ads29 .

 

[eon172]

Is it just the front floor plates that have to be repositioned?

 

[Andy P]

Is it just the front floor plates that have to be repositioned?

I think I am right in saying the rear plates have to be removed as well because the new cage has an extra plate underneath the mounting platform.
Paul I hope the photo show how the Harnesses fit.

 

[Andy P]

Hope this photo shows the extra plate, this was just a trial fit.

 

[Pauleds]

This is mine fitted @Pauleds, @Ads29 .View attachment 193849

Could you take a photo from directly behind the drivers seat.
The harnesses (when used with a Hans device) should be tapered together equally from the seat to the harness bar, as I would like them to not have the edges of the harness fouling the diagonal/welds.
I think the harnesses may have to be crossed over to maybe avoid them fouling.

 

[Pauleds]

View attachment 193851
Hope this photo shows the extra plate, this was just a trial fit.

I welded in extra based plates underneath last time.
Still not looking forward to having to cut out stuff and make a mess again.

 

[Andy P]

@Pauleds I hope these help if not let me know.

 

[AdamCup]

Finally got round to removing my cage yesterday so it's ready to be collected. I have emailed @SafetyDevicesDaniel with the information they needed.
I have also asked if I could have the harness bar at the same height as my original cage so that my harnesses don't get fouled by the diagonals.
My car looks naked now
View attachment 193678

Did they accept the request for the harness bar, as I'll be requesting the same? Cheers

I've asked @markfishy and they can't adjust the harness bar.

EDIT ..... Just seen someone has also confirmed this. Ignore me !

 

[loggyboy]

Thats such bullshit.. harness bars are one of the things that can be moved on a homologated cage.

 

[Jamie86]

Has anybody had their cage changed and not been the original purchaser of the cage?

 

[donnylad]

Sorry to bump an old thread, how did people get on with the R022 cage with when running a HANS?

I sent some pics to a scrutineer last week and he commented saying the harness bar looks to low and it will fail its logbook if its above 10 degrees. I rang the MSA technical department and they tell me up to 20 degrees is absolutely fine with a HANS.

Still not bloody sure.

I have measured mine with a protractor from the harness bar to where it goes through the seat best I can and seems 18 degrees.

 

[Ads29]

Sorry to bump an old thread, how did people get on with the R022 cage with when running a HANS?

I sent some pics to a scrutineer last week and he commented saying the harness bar looks to low and it will fail its logbook if its above 10 degrees. I rang the MSA technical department and they tell me up to 20 degrees is absolutely fine with a HANS.

Still not bloody sure.

I have measured mine with a protractor from the harness bar to where it goes through the seat best I can and seems 18 degrees.

Mines been fine @donnylad, had no issue in scrutineering whatsoever. It's comfortable (well as comfortable as a HANS can be) and arguably easier to get my harness sitting right than it was with the old cage

 

[loggyboy]

18 is fine. Sounds like the scruit is getting the up and down side of horizontal on that diagram confused.

 

[jonno007]

has anyone attempted to race with the old Safety Devices cage since the rule change? Was planning to race for the first time next season only to find out that the car may not pass scruitineering?
Any help would be appreciated!

 

[loggyboy]

It 'should' still be compliant to most series. Its just the 750mc scrutes that didnt like it and its specfically noted in the 182 series regs as non accepatable. Its very much an interpretive query so best to speak to the series you want to race in and they will clarify.

 

[Rob Quantrell]

Yup I raced a full season in 2019 in the RO17 cage in CSCC Tin Tops, Trackday Trophy and 750mc Roadsports and no problem from scrutineers at all. As Loggyboy said, it’s only the Ktec Clio champs that specifically outlaw them

now that’s not to say that an overbearing scrute will call it out before a race, but I would be very very surprised as they are quality cages and scrutes usually have more pressing matters to look out for (especially so nowadays)

 

[jonno007]

thanks, @Rob Quantrell, and @loggyboy. This is what the scrutineer said:

K1.6.1 states that, for production cars with up to 2,000 cc, the ROPS do not have to have a front hoop as diagrams K1 & K2 shows. The standard Renault Clio 172 has an engine size of 1,998 cc. Therefore, the ROPS do not need a front hoop and therefore, Jon's Clio is exempt. However, the vehicle is far stronger with it in and I would not recommend removing the front hoop. Indeed, the ROPS may not comply with its manufacturer's certificate if the front hoop is removed and may become non compliant.

If the engine is larger than 2,000 cc then I would suggest that the ROPS shown do not fully follow the windscreen pillar and therefore do not comply.

In my view the mounting foot shown in Jon's Clio is not rearward the forepost point of the hoop but is directly beneath the hoop.

So this sounds like I am OK, but it raises another question, do I need to provide a certificate for the roll cage at scrutineering? The first race is in a week's time at castle combe and really don't want to be turned away. Do you guys have any experience with having to provide certification or not?

Many thanks!

 

[Ads29]

thanks, @Rob Quantrell, and @loggyboy. This is what the scrutineer said:

K1.6.1 states that, for production cars with up to 2,000 cc, the ROPS do not have to have a front hoop as diagrams K1 & K2 shows. The standard Renault Clio 172 has an engine size of 1,998 cc. Therefore, the ROPS do not need a front hoop and therefore, Jon's Clio is exempt. However, the vehicle is far stronger with it in and I would not recommend removing the front hoop. Indeed, the ROPS may not comply with its manufacturer's certificate if the front hoop is removed and may become non compliant.

If the engine is larger than 2,000 cc then I would suggest that the ROPS shown do not fully follow the windscreen pillar and therefore do not comply.

In my view the mounting foot shown in Jon's Clio is not rearward the forepost point of the hoop but is directly beneath the hoop.

So this sounds like I am OK, but it raises another question, do I need to provide a certificate for the roll cage at scrutineering? The first race is in a week's time at castle combe and really don't want to be turned away. Do you guys have any experience with having to provide certification or not?

Many thanks!

@jonno007 you racing in the hot hatches? I've been using the R022 cage for a couple of years and never had any issues in scrutineering, either at Combe or any other circuits

 

[Rob Quantrell]

thanks, @Rob Quantrell, and @loggyboy. This is what the scrutineer said:

K1.6.1 states that, for production cars with up to 2,000 cc, the ROPS do not have to have a front hoop as diagrams K1 & K2 shows. The standard Renault Clio 172 has an engine size of 1,998 cc. Therefore, the ROPS do not need a front hoop and therefore, Jon's Clio is exempt. However, the vehicle is far stronger with it in and I would not recommend removing the front hoop. Indeed, the ROPS may not comply with its manufacturer's certificate if the front hoop is removed and may become non compliant.

If the engine is larger than 2,000 cc then I would suggest that the ROPS shown do not fully follow the windscreen pillar and therefore do not comply.

In my view the mounting foot shown in Jon's Clio is not rearward the forepost point of the hoop but is directly beneath the hoop.

So this sounds like I am OK, but it raises another question, do I need to provide a certificate for the roll cage at scrutineering? The first race is in a week's time at castle combe and really don't want to be turned away. Do you guys have any experience with having to provide certification or not?

Many thanks!

Good to hear you have some clarity!

I’ve never been asked for certificates, either for my old RO17 or my new one

 

[Jamie86]

You’ll be fine at Combe.
See you there

 

[loggyboy]

thanks, @Rob Quantrell, and @loggyboy. This is what the scrutineer said:

K1.6.1 states that, for production cars with up to 2,000 cc, the ROPS do not have to have a front hoop as diagrams K1 & K2 shows. The standard Renault Clio 172 has an engine size of 1,998 cc. Therefore, the ROPS do not need a front hoop and therefore, Jon's Clio is exempt. However, the vehicle is far stronger with it in and I would not recommend removing the front hoop. Indeed, the ROPS may not comply with its manufacturer's certificate if the front hoop is removed and may become non compliant.

If the engine is larger than 2,000 cc then I would suggest that the ROPS shown do not fully follow the windscreen pillar and therefore do not comply.

In my view the mounting foot shown in Jon's Clio is not rearward the forepost point of the hoop but is directly beneath the hoop.

So this sounds like I am OK, but it raises another question, do I need to provide a certificate for the roll cage at scrutineering? The first race is in a week's time at castle combe and really don't want to be turned away. Do you guys have any experience with having to provide certification or not?

Many thanks!

Remind me what race series is the context of this? As im pretty sure no circuit race series would allow half cage, part K is only the base point, series regulations will stipulate what cage they require.

 

[jonno007]

Appreciate the help everyone, I will be able to sleep better now!

Racing in the hot hatch series at Combe. First race bank holiday Monday!