For people who mod their cars

[Deeg]

I wouldnt have thought that an insurance company would be liable for any cost of repair (yours or 3rd party) because you have essentially lied to them, you have said that their are no mods to your car from manufacturers specification. Fair enough, allys you could blag, but exhausts are performance enhancing, as is suspension, de-cats and what have you.

When you phone them up and get a quote, it is based on what you tell them, and when you accept, you have to agree to that legal statement that says you havent lied. If you have your insurance is void, making you liable, surelry (sp?)

 

[theICEman]

Doesnt matter. The certificate of insurance is a guarantee that they will indemnify you in respect of any third party liability which arises, unconditionally, under the terms of the Road Traffic Act. Its a legal requirement. I know this becuase Ive spent the last two days in Underwriting Training for Motor insurance, and also have a law degree!

And it applies whether you are comprehensive, TPF&T or TPO. An insurer will never be able to escape liability to a third party if they have indemnified the policyholder in respect of the vehicle bearing the registration mark noted on the Certificate of Insurance.

They could, however, attempt to recover the money at a later stage, provided the contract of insurance contains a clause to the effect that they reserve the right to recover monies they have been required by law to pay, but otherwise would not have been liable for according to the terms of the contract (e.g. in the circumstances where the policyholder failed to disclose material facts relating to the risk). However, in practice this would not be done, and has not been done by any UK motor insurer under these circumstances to date.

 

[kingJimBob]

Woooo.......



so ICEman in your personally opinion....... and i honestly wouldnt shouting out loud that if your TFPT u dont have to declare modifications.

but in your IMO me being TPFT, and at date just haivng the alloys and lowering of 30mm. if i had a crash, as im TPFT i would not have cover on my car anyway, but i would not be in major sh*t with the insurance company?

Disclaimer: if i was to modifiy my car in such a way that it stood out in a crowd i.e. 17" alloys, full preleasant respray, full stainless steal exhust system, engine mods etc i would declare all.

 

[kingJimBob]

But the point with fully comp, is that if you were fully comp insured and no declared modifications, they might not pay up the ££ for the modification not declared or might not pay at all?!? is this right?

 

[kingJimBob]

Nabbed from another post, but im pretty sure this bloke was fully comp, and in an accident involving just his car, so the insurance for his car was voided?



Quote: Originally posted by connor on 14 April 2004






but yeah i had all mine colour coded on my 1.2 16v and it looks the mutts nuts. & no it doesnt effect the insurance, I know of this by experience coz my insurance got voided coz of the harnesses n alloys, not coz of the lexus lights or bodycolouredness

 

[connor]

They wont pay out at all... They voided my insurance coz i had alloys on it! Wouldnt pay out for any of the car, not just the alloys.

But as I didnt cause any damage to property or any other third party I could not test the theory that ice man just said about them having to pay out for any third party even if they do void ur insurance.

But thats a bloody good point about the TPFT and not declaring the mods (assuming it raises the premium coz obviously if it doesnt then u have no reason not to) coz surely that is a bit of a glitch in the system?!!?

 

[kingJimBob]

Quote: Originally posted by connor on 15 April 2004


But thats a bloody good point about the TPFT and not declaring the mods (assuming it raises the premium coz obviously if it doesnt then u have no reason not to) coz surely that is a bit of a glitch in the system?!!?

Yes and a bloody good glitch tbh

Though being TPFT i reckon if your car was knicked & recovered or burnt, your insurance would be void. Doooooooooh

 

[connor]

yeah but tbh, if your going TPFT anyways its gotta be coz the car aint worth alot coz u aint gonna go TPFT on a car worth 3k or more are ya! so what does it matter hehe.

just kidding! lol

 

[ClioRTDerby]

Im with liverpool Vic, and told them everything I had on my car and they wasnt bothered. As Long as I dont change the capacity of the engine.....

 

[kingJimBob]

Quote: Originally posted by connor on 15 April 2004

yeah but tbh, if your going TPFT anyways its gotta be coz the car aint worth alot coz u aint gonna go TPFT on a car worth 3k or more are ya! so what does it matter hehe.

just kidding! lol

Nah u have made a good point there, if my car was worth more than £2000 i would prob go fully comp because i wouldnt be able to afford losing it. as it stands tho im good on TFPT, for now....

 

[powelly]

Thank god im fully loaded they know everything phew that could have been bad!!

my car isnt even the same colour lol!

 

[RobFenn]

Quote: Originally posted by ClioRTDerby on 15 April 2004

Im with liverpool Vic, and told them everything I had on my car and they wasnt bothered. As Long as I dont change the capacity of the engine.....

Same. Supposedly theyve changed their views on this now though which im worried about. I phoned them about my new wheels and they said all mods are fine apart from the capacity increase as you say so i havent bothered telling them about the other stuff..

-Rob

 

[kingJimBob]

In theory then with TFPT i can could get away with modding the engine aswell?

because come to think about it, i was told that if your TPFT they dont actually take a look at your car unless ur making a claim against some1 else? Which could be a problem?

but then again, their insurance company doesnt need to know what your car was insured for does it? they make u an offer and u haggle blah blah

 

[iPap]

Quote: Originally posted by powelly on 15 April 2004


Thank god im fully loaded they know everything phew that could have been bad!!

my car isnt even the same colour lol!

Not exactly a risk though parked in a garage 12 months a year. Have you ever driven it?

 

[theICEman]

Well, in a hypothetical situation, and this isnt supposed to represent the views of anyone other than myself personally, and isnt purporting to be a professional opinion in any regard... if Joe Bloggs were to insure his car TPF&T and didnt declare modifications to said car, and then there was an accident, Joe Bloggs would not be liable to pay anything further or be liable for any third party costs under normal insurance practices as Ive experienced/am aware of to date! The third partys claim would be honoured in full, and Joe Bloggs would be liable to pay the cost of his own car, which was never covered anyway... only thing is, the insurer may rescind the policy, meaning it would be cancelled with immediate effect from the date of the claim, with no premium refund, so he may lose a few months cover, but thats it. Does this help at all?

 

[connor]

Yes that does help!

But unfortunatly for me... as I was fully comp and they voided my insurance from inception! (i.e. 23rd sept) and i crashed in Jan... So ive lost a good lot of cover! But it was free insurance anyways so I didnt actually lose any money...

anyways im still fighting it to this day, its in the hands of the financial ombudsman atm! I got a letter today from them, the title was well funny...

"Mark OConnor VS UK Insurance Limited"

oops! taking on a rather large company arnt i

 

[theICEman]

Connor, with your free insurance, when you filled out the original proposal what was that like? Cos I seem to remember for Renault free insurance when I first bought my car back in 2001, they didnt ask for a full proposal to be filled in and signed, just a list of driver names!

Also, there was no policy booklet, so the actual contract of insurance was somewhat thin on the ground, and I dont recall it ever mentioning a duty to disclose mods?? So unless this has changed, I think your case with the IOB should be quite a strong one. You have nothinbg to lose anyway, because whichever way the decision goes UKI are paying for the IOBs costs! I have seen similar cases before and I think theyll ask UKI to pay for the car but not the mods where they werent specific about including mods on the duty of disclosure clarification satement.

 

[connor]

I really dont care if they pay for the mods to tell u the truth!! I can afford an alloy (or 2!)

But I cant remember too much about the proposal to tell u the truth, I have the motor proposal confirmation and the shedule tho (which i never signed oops! lol) anyways its says in there in the car details that the modifications done to the vehical were "none" coz I didnt declare them... so im not sure if that will go against me coz thats the only thing that says anything about modifications on the vehical! coz i ve got a copy of the damn policy and it says nothing in there about mods or declaring them! absolutely zilch!

But mate... I crashed in jan... Got the car bk in feb... its still sitting on my drive now (non road legal but mechanically fine and u can drive it) So ive just started repairs myself as I cant do without a car for any longer and the case with the IOB can take anything up to 6months, So what would happen say if I repair the car back to its original status and i spent say 4k doing that, and then they decided to pay out? (coz the car wouldve been a write off and i wouldve probably got a brand new car as it was under a year old, but as it was voided it wasnt a write off as they didnt honour my claim)

What would happen then? Coz the car would be completely fine.... I was told by a solicitor that renault would have to completely reinburse me for what I have spent on it, do you know anything about this?

 

[mr sheep]

do i have to declare my alloys (now being 17") even if the car comes with alloys as standard (was 15") as mine did ???? help

 

[theICEman]

I think that would be true. Its probably a good thing that you didnt sign and return the proposal form as well, as youve not signed any declaration that UKI could produce to the Ombudsman/in court to say the car hasnt been modified! You could also claim for loss of use, or some kind of compensation, quite possibly, given the circumstances - if youve been stuck without a car for the whole time.

 

[theICEman]

I cant believe they voided your policy over alloys!!! For a start you can easily justify not advising the insurer that the car had been modified when the car came with alloys and you just chose a slightly different design and size, which were probably of less replacement value than Renaults own 15" ones, and which were unlikely to significantly alter your cars attractiveness to thieves - and certainly not improve the performance!! I think youre justified in taking the case to the IOB and I certainly hope you win!

 

[connor]

Well... I had to pay 500 just to get the damn car released from renaults bodyshop and had to pay for recovery trucks to get the car recovered in the first place etc! they butt raped me for money!

& good call about the proposal form lol. But the thing is I signed a few things when buying the car so im guessing one of them was an insurance document =/

 

[connor]

Lol, Well the reason they have voided it is coz of the following....

They are voiding it not coz the alloys made me crash etc etc, its simply JUST because they were not supplied and fitted by the manufacturer! so basically its coz they aint renault alloys and they were fitted by an independent garage n not renault! gay hey?!

 

[jabba]

Quote: Originally posted by Adams_16v on 09 April 2004

whats the chance of them checking for internal mods such as cams, etc etc

iv told them of everything else that is obvious!



i dont think the £35 will cover them taking your engine apart then puttin it back again after somehow. they suspected one of my old valvers had a willy lump in it but they never took it any furthur-not economically viable!

 

[kingJimBob]

Noooooow this post ha been VERY helpful!

 

[EightBall]

Quote: Originally posted by mr sheep on 15 April 2004

do i have to declare my alloys (now being 17") even if the car comes with alloys as standard (was 15") as mine did ???? help

Yes. (unless your insurers say otherwise)

Even though my car came with 16" alloys, the alloys fitted are different ones (17") being a dealer option at time of purchase. When changing my insurance details I was asked the usual questions about modifications. My response was that I had "dealer fitted optional alloys" fitted. They are noted on my insurance policy (along with the leather and other options that are not a standard fitting) but I have not been charged extra on my policy for them.

There was a discussion somewhere on the forums before about these sort of insurance querys. I dont think there was ever a defining answer given. In sort I think unless you are prepared to have you insurance voided or run the risk of loosing ££££ if you were to have an accident or need to make a claim, then declare any modifications from standard spec.

 

[h3lter]

im sh*ttin it, im worried about them screwin about mods and hittin my premium even higher!! i already pay £2400 under my old mans name with sh*tty CIS (crappist company ever) only reason i with them is its cheapest i could find! my car is only a 1.6 but i had 1 total loss 18 months ago and 3 points 2 yrs ago so no one will insure my car! i wanna get insured on my own but cant pay more than 1500 notes!

i hate it i really do!



oh and my dad wont let me have any thin but fully comp cus car aint payed for yet!

 

[theICEman]

If youre spending that kinda money on insurance its really not worth doing it in your dads name, especially as it sounds as though youre not getting the benefit of a full NCD in his name which has been mirrored from his own policy. Youd be much better to build up some NCD in your own name, chances are youll find it cheaper than that anyway! And it means youve always got your own NCD. I strongly advise running through an online quote with:

Tesco (Cheapest of UKIs providers)

Elephant (Cheapest of Admirals providers)

and a telephone quote with:

First Alternative (Cheap new insurer, part of HBoS) 0845 607 0380

and

Asda (Cheapest Norwich Union provider) 0845 300 5771


as Im sure that one of these could be cheaper than CIS!

 

[kingJimBob]

ARG! i just wrote a load of cr*p out and it lost it all.

ok. in short...

1. thats a kick in the balls mate

2. im with CIS udner dads name too, well untill nov then going udner my own name for same premium (pass plus, + held lience for a year)

3. have u told CIS about your mods? and did they put the premium up?

4. i told them about my alloys (in writing) but yet to hear from them.

5. dont want to tell them about lwoering car 40mm might even keep it hush as im only TPFT

 

[h3lter]

sweet mate i want norwich union to be fair

 

[Deeg]

Quote: Originally posted by h3lter on 16 April 2004


im sh*ttin it, im worried about them screwin about mods and hittin my premium even higher!! i already pay £2400 under my old mans name with sh*tty CIS (crappist company ever) only reason i with them is its cheapest i could find! my car is only a 1.6 but i had 1 total loss 18 months ago and 3 points 2 yrs ago so no one will insure my car! i wanna get insured on my own but cant pay more than 1500 notes!

i hate it i really do!



oh and my dad wont let me have any thin but fully comp cus car aint payed for yet!

Ive got a total loss and 5 points for a CD10, and have just had mine renewed for £700 TPFT in my own name, thats with HIC. 01279 719 932, if you wanna ring em, mention Cliosport, seem pretty good (unless you have to make a claim allegedley), but they work on commission so seem to wanna get the price down. I spoke to james.

*Edit*, that is with 1 years NCB, but was quoted £900 with no no-claims.

I was quoted £1100 TPFT (£1600 fully comp) on a valver, so if i were you, i would get a new company. Sounds as if your having your pants pulled down (no dis-respect).

 

[Dyewitness]

Just back from spain punters so will post the e-mail from my work on monday

 

[theICEman]

Good man Aly, look forward to reading more about this! I take it you were in Espanol to watch the Tic play VillaReal?

 

[Dyewitness]

Quote: Originally posted by theICEman on 16 April 2004

Good man Aly, look forward to reading more about this! I take it you were in Espanol to watch the Tic play VillaReal?

was that....pished from tuesday morning til this afternoon!

 

[theICEman]

Not in the least bit surprised! Has the hangover set in yet?? Youll be in bed for the rest of the week mate!!

Drowning your sorrows Im gathering? Being a blue-nose Ill refrain from comment...

 

[Dyewitness]

Quote: Originally posted by theICEman on 17 April 2004


Not in the least bit surprised! Has the hangover set in yet?? Youll be in bed for the rest of the week mate!!

Drowning your sorrows Im gathering? Being a blue-nose Ill refrain from comment...

We were played off the park, didnt expect to get through but had an amazing time over there! and yeah the hangover has been rough but well all fresh now so its up to killie to watch the championship come home and get some revenge for last year! and will then get pished yet again!

 

[Dyewitness]

Heres the e-mail! at long feckin last!

Background

RSA was approached by Toad plc to support a new initiative to reduce front
end fraud

The concept, which had been successfully implemented in South Africa, was
to inspect vehicles immediately after inception to check for:
physical existence of the car
pre-existing glass and body damage
accessories and modifications
security features
mileage
VIN numbers and Vehicle Registration documents

A main attraction was the ability to reduce the number of potential
fraudulent claims (claim intent)

The Motor Steering Group decided that we would support the pilot by
putting 10000 vehicles through the inspection process in a 6 month
period at a cost of = £30+VAT per inspection. Two other insurers,
Allianz Cornhill and Admiral, also joined the pilot

The purpose of the pilot was to answer the question " do we have an
issue here"? and the benefits we are calculating are based on the
potential savings we would make. Realising these savings will need
to be achieved if / when we progress beyond pilot and put robust
processes and procedures into plac

We are now coming towards the end of the pilot and we have some high level results. We have already established that "we do have an issue here" and
the next stage is to decide what we are going to do about it. This is
an innovative and market leading initiative and I am writing to ask for your
support.

I would like to arrange a workshop in Oldham within the next couple of
weeks to review the pilot to date, consider the future of the VIP and to decide
if and in what way we take this forward. The recommendations from the workshop will be presented to the UKP Motor Product Board. There are a lot of
areas to consider and a number of stakeholders identified. Some examples are:

Operational impact
Measuring success / review of the pilot
Constructing a CBA
Customer feedback
PR
Transfer of data to and from Toad
Segment specific issues

 

[Lunner]

Quote: Originally posted by cambsclio on 11 April 2004

im with CIS. had a rep come to my home, but never really checked over the car at all. had alloys on it at the time and he never mentioned anything about them

Same here mate, he commented that he likes my alloys through, thing wiht CIS is that all mods that you do have to decalired in writing, and all the ones i;ve done and declaired, ive never heard anything back confirming they have been added to the policy.

 

[Magpie]

I have read and heared recently that when you take out an insurance policy on an unmodded car then decide to mod it you dont have to notify the insurance poeple of any mods at all......but when you take out a renewel the following year then you will have to declare all, or take off your mods and renew the insurance then fit your mods back on.....

If you have an accident though during your policy with a modded car the insurance company will only pay out the bog standard amount...

i.e. uprated and lowered suspension fitted after taken out policy......bang, crash, wollop.........insurance only pays out for bog standard amount payable and not for any extra which you payed for this mod. So really you only have to notify them of your mods if you want to insure your mods along side the value of your car.

I cant really say if this is true mind, Im just quoting what I read and looked into, Im not really prepared to put this to a practical test.....yet!!

 

[kingJimBob]

i sent CIS my mods in writing and have not heard anything either? im hal tempted to ring the local rep to find out, or send the letter recorded? or an email and save the copy?