Fuel Rail Swap, Test Drive Fine..Now Won't Start

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Hi Folks,

Im after a bit of help. My car was throwing a misfire code and flashing the EML every so often. The idle was fine and it drove fine but obviously I didnt fancy an injector failing on me in the middle of nowhere. So, I bought a second hand fuel rail with injectors from a working car and fitted it. Everything went smoothly except the fuel line fitting to the rail had split one of its rubber o-rings. Anyhow, Im going to buy a replacement o ring and fit that but test drove the car gently after checking there were no fuel leaks. Test drive went perfectly and so parked the car up. When I went back to move it about 15 mins later the car wasnt starting and was acting like it had low battery. I had removed the battery prior to the rail change to fit a new wheel so could it be that the battery (which isnt great anyway) is throwing a wobbly? Unforutnately I didnt have time to test any of this yesterday but I wanted to rack all your brains before diving in.

Thanks in advance

 

[william84]

I have a post here similar happened to me. Give me couple of minutes I will check sizes I used to replace o rings.
Does it leak from fuel pipe connection?

 

[william84]

o ring size I fitted with no problems is 7mm internal diameter 2mm cross section.
Remember to apply some sort of lube like grease oil or washing liquid round the o ring before fitting this limits the chances of ripping o ring.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

o ring size I fitted with no problems is 7mm internal diameter 2mm cross section.
Remember to apply some sort of lube like grease oil or washing liquid round the o ring before fitting this limits the chances of ripping o ring.

Its funny you replied to this actually as I just found your post and am in the process of finding a supplier for one. where did you get your replacement one from out of interest?

On that particular hose, there are 2 o rings. Mine was the black lower one that split. Basically when i realised it had split, I securely pushed the end into the fuel rail and it appeared to be fine. I then ran the car and monitored the hole to make sure there werent any leaks for probably about 10 minutes. Once satisfied my car wasnt going to burst into flames half way down the road I test drove it.

Would the car get mad if the fuel rail pressure was low? Thats my only thinking.

 

[william84]

I got mine from halfords as it was urgent.
Mines ran but was down in power and leaking.
Just double check all your plugs on injectors are fitted correctly.
Also just to rule out another faulty injector I would stick a multitester on them an do a restance check you never know could have another faulty injector.
Let me know if any of these work if not could put few other ideas forward.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

I'll go and take a look as I have a halfords locally. I'm also going to head over when I can and put a multimeter across the battery. It has been a bit of a sod recently. If I find the car starts fine with a jump pack then it's just the o-ring to fix. I'll probably test the injectors anyway just for peace of mind! Thanks for your help!!!

 

[william84]

No worries keep the thread updated and I will keep an eye on thread ?

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

So the plot thickens. Jump pack attached it sits and idles fine. Even revs. Took the battery pack off to take it for a drive and I get the SERV and TC light come on. Then it really starts throwing wobbly. The speedo dies. All dials go dead. So I turn off the ignition and I've just gone to get my multi meter.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Battery is showing 11.5 volts. I'm gonna run the car with the battery pack on and see if I can get the alternator to charge it up a bit

 

[william84]

Check your current running should die like that if running as alt would provide the voltage. I reckon your alt could be goosed check my posts ? had issues like that to.
I'm convinced my car has been through everyone of them ? like most other Reno's.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Damn it. I had a feeling it could be that. That was my next guess. Alternator change could be fun. Bloody cars!

 

[william84]

yeah fun and a few bruised knuckles later.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Okay so. Went back to check the car today and found something interesting. The car was totally dead. Remote key fob didn't even unlock it. Manually unlocked it - of course the alarm worked through. Sigh. Once I got the battery pack attached and stopped that I ran the car for a bit (still with the battery pack attached). Eventually the battery pack died...as did the car. Tested the battery and its showing 6.3 Volts. Starts to make me think the battery is shot. If the battery was that dead then the alternator (providing its functioning) wouldn't save it. If any of this doesn't compute please put me right.

 

[william84]

did you test it when running?

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

did you test it when running?

I dont think I did. But the car just died as soon as the battery pack ran out of juice anyway.

 

[william84]

definitely your alternator.
Your car once started should run as the alt will provide the volts to keep it running until you switch it off.
Check your exiter wire connection on the alt before replacing alt.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

I'm gonna google which wire that is lol. I also have another weird theory I just read about. My connections are quite oxidized. I wonder if when I reconnected the battery after changing the steering wheel if it's not making a solid connection and therefore draining? Is that possible?

 

[william84]

I don't see that causing the drain on your battery.
If the diods in your alt are goosed that could cause a drain as I found out with mines.
Best to get a fully charged battery and test if you are getting a current draw.
A quick Google will show you how.

If it has a current draw my first check would be removing b post live on alt and draw test again.
Failing that I'd be heading to the starter as that another known issue with current draw.
If they all pass the test then it gets tricky locating the issue as it maybe in your wiring loom.
To locate roughly where you could draw test fuses relays etc.
clean all connections on battery for piece of mind.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

I don't see that causing the drain on your battery.
If the diods in your alt are goosed that could cause a drain as I found out with mines.
Best to get a fully charged battery and test if you are getting a current draw.
A quick Google will show you how.

If it has a current draw my first check would be removing b post live on alt and draw test again.
Failing that I'd be heading to the starter as that another known issue with current draw.
If they all pass the test then it gets tricky locating the issue as it maybe in your wiring loom.
To locate roughly where you could draw test fuses relays etc.
clean all connections on battery for piece of mind.

I've left the car just as is for the moment as I was out of time today. I left it off charge mainly to see if the battery dies any more as its lost voltage since I last checked it 2 days ago. When I go back to it, I'll test it to see if the battery is dead or not. If so, I'll take it off and charge it. Then once it's back on, I'll start to tackle the list you've mentioned above. I really hope this doesn't become a total PITA! It just seems weird that its only become an issue since I've messed with the battery. It's what makes me think the connections are causing the issue. But as you say, a dodgy connection shouldn't cause an issue.

Could I have nudged or hit something whilst messing with the fuel rail that could be to blame?

 

[william84]

Not sure tbh.
The checks above will locate roughly.
The exiter wire is on the alt it's the plugged wire.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Not sure tbh.
The checks above will locate roughly.
The exiter wire is on the alt it's the plugged wire.

Thanks for your help mate. God knows where I'd have started otherwise!

 

[william84]

you will need a fully charged battery for tests as some circuits need 12v to operate so definitely a must a fully charged battery.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

I'll go about getting that on charge asap then! Thanks again!

 

[Pistachio]

It would be best to check the charging voltage it is putting out the next time it is running, as it might be frying the battery

 

[william84]

It would be best to check the charging voltage it is putting out the next time it is running, as it might be frying the battery

I agree

 

[william84]

I went down the route of refurbishing my original one.
£80 with 2 year guarantee

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

It would be best to check the charging voltage it is putting out the next time it is running, as it might be frying the battery

When you say frying the battery are you talking about the alt over charging the battery? I've read somewhere that's possible. Again, I'm kinda out of my depth here. Mechanics I'm fine with. Electrics I'm totally pants.

 

[william84]

Yeah alts can fry battery's my guesses it's not the case tho as it would have died with your booster on it.
I agreed with putting a multitester on while running to check.

 

[william84]

wouldn't#

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

I'll give that a shot at the weekend. Only issue is that I've left the car off charge and I cant get back to it till sunday. Which obviously means the battery wont be charged when I get back to it. If I get it running with the low battery would it still be worth testing the charge?

 

[william84]

yeah

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Great. The battery pack is on charge so I'll use that to get the girl running. Then I'll whip it off and see if it dies or if I can get a charge. If the car immediately dies after whipping the battery pack off, I'm assuming all fingers point to the alternator?

 

[Pistachio]

When you say frying the battery are you talking about the alt over charging the battery? I've read somewhere that's possible. Again, I'm kinda out of my depth here. Mechanics I'm fine with. Electrics I'm totally pants.

Yes. Just check the voltage across the battery when it is running

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

I'll give that a try on sunday and report back! Cheers guys

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Little update. Had 5 minutes so went and checked the battery. 0.6V. I took the battery off and tried to put it on charge. It wouldn't even charge. So I'm thinking the battery could be to blame. I've bought a new battery which I'll fit soon. I'll test the draw on it with the engine off and make sure the alternator is charging it.

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

Final update. With the new battery fitted things became quite apparent quite quickly. I'll try and break it down in the hope it helps someone in the future trying to diagnose their car.

The old battery was dying. The voltage was dropping quickly even when not used. This wasnt down to their being a draw off the battery (luckily for me). It was just a dying battery.

With the new battery fitted, everything went back to normal. Kind of. It was showing 12.5V when off and 11.9V when running. This was the indicator that the alternator was dead. It should be showing at least 13V when running.

I could determine that there wasnt a draw on the battery due to the fact that I used that car for 24 hours and the battery held well. It only dropped to 11.5 volts. Again, this proves the alternator wasnt charging the battery but also that there wasnt a constant draw off the battery when not being used.

I had all this checked by my local garage for peace of mind.

Cheers for everyones help

 

[william84]

all working again ?

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

all working again ?

Kind of! Alternator will be ordered today and then will probably get a garage to fit it lol

 

[william84]

I went down the route of refurbishing mine as it was half the price and came with same guarantee 2yrs. Done the same day I took it off

 

[Sir Nancy Flowers]

I went down the route of refurbishing mine as it was half the price and came with same guarantee 2yrs. Done the same day I took it off

Did you take it somewhere then?