Great vid showing off ESP

[meady100]

Quite an eye opener this. Didn't realise quite how effective it could be!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Y6z7cXxEE

S.

 

[experi-mental 182]

thanks for posting, very interesting, it saved me on an icy bend last year, when it kicked in it was like being on rails, it just took over from me, felt very weird.

 

[Justin182]

ESP is the dogs! When ive purposely tried to loose the back end a bit, you can feel it brake the nessessary wheels. And has seriously saved my backon on the A68 once when lifted off the ground just before a corner.

 

[Paul J]

Im a huge fan of ESP, so long as i can turn it off!

I leave it on most of the time and the Clio system is pretty much spot on. Allows for a little fun with a safety net should your talent run out.

Will insist my Sister and Mother buy cars with it in the future!

Goes straight off for track days tho.

 

[Paddy_g46]

wow!

 

[Andy_con]

awsome video

 

[Nebdingo]

thats cool!!!

I certainly understand it a bot better! good find fella.

 

[Colin-S]

You dont need ESP. It's simple dont drive too fast into corners in the wet, dont drive over wet leaves, dont overtake when there's snow and dont drive like a tit!!

 

[172.com]

Having seen that I'm almost certain it's saved my bacon twice (from big crashes that is). Twice I've had it going towards sidewards and pulled it back in with some ease. I thought it was my driving skills, but obviously it was the ESP . I think I'll leave that button alone!

 

[philmots]

Its all a load of b****cks

 

[Justin182]

You dont need ESP. It's simple dont drive too fast into corners in the wet, dont drive over wet leaves, dont overtake when there's snow and dont drive like a tit!!

.... and just run over that kid that steps into the road. Oh, and maybe just nail you car into that tractor blindly pulling out of a field lol

 

[S22 JGS]

good, but so staged.
very educational thouhg.

i still dont like ESP myself. always turned it off, and chose a clio that doesnt have it

 

[Paul J]

You dont need ESP. It's simple dont drive too fast into corners in the wet, dont drive over wet leaves, dont overtake when there's snow and dont drive like a tit!!

You are so lucky to be perfect, the rest of us mere mortals find it a comforting safety net tho.

Just hope someone who makes a mistake that could affect you has your ability and sence.

 

[Colin-S]

You dont need ESP. It's simple dont drive too fast into corners in the wet, dont drive over wet leaves, dont overtake when there's snow and dont drive like a tit!!

You are so lucky to be perfect, the rest of us mere mortals find it a comforting safety net tho.

Just hope someone who makes a mistake that could affect you has your ability and sence.

Comes with driving a cup.

 

[MarkCup]

Speaking with my IAM hat on, that video was a bit of a joke to be honest.

There's not a single situation used in the clip, that an aware, observant, and focused driver would have put themselves in, in the first place.

I appreciate for many it has proven to be a lifesaver, but there are other ways.

 

[Colin-S]

Speaking with my IAM hat on, that video was a bit of a joke to be honest.

There's not a single situation used in the clip, that an aware, observant, and focused driver would have put themselves in, in the first place.

I appreciate for many it has proven to be a lifesaver, but there are other ways.

Seconded !! although i do admit ESP can save lives.

 

[172.com]

What's Nationwide got to do with this?

In the end it can and will happen to anyone, safely or not.

So many self-righteous people in the world.

 

[Justin182]

^^^ really !! (at Mark's post )

Swerving on to wet leaves becasue a car is coming at you on your side, tractor pulling out, kid running in the street ?

Still, it was illistrating how the ESP works and by putting the cars in those 'silly' situations, shows it well i think.

Each to their own opinion but it has worked well with me before. Not saying i would have stacked it with out though, just helping out.

 

[ant]

meh........i'll take my chances.

 

[MarkCup]

^^^ really !! (at Mark's post )

Swerving on to wet leaves becasue a car is coming at you on your side, tractor pulling out, kid running in the street ?

Still, it was illistrating how the ESP works and by putting the cars in those 'silly' situations, shows it well i think.

Each to their own opinion but it has worked well with me before. Not saying i would have stacked it with out though, just helping out.

I can see a bend up ahead, mirror, nothing behind, looking around the bend I can see leaves on the outside so I'll just adjust my speed slightly, looking again, vehicle approaching now, vehicle is straddling centre line, mirror, I'm easing right off now and he's obviously a f****** p**** so I need to act, I'm bringing my speed right down, all the time being smooth with the controls so as not to unbalance the car and cause a skid on the leaves, mirror.

Straight road ahead, I can see there's fields to the right, heavy vehicle approaching, mirror, narrow road, slight lift off, looking ahead can see field exit (often from mud/debris on the road surface),mirror, and also top of tractor above the hedge as it approaches the road, mirror, is he slowing?, mirror, I don't think he is, mirror, off throttle and covering brake now, he's definitely not stopping now, mirror, maximum braking smoothly applied.

Residential area so keeping my speed well down, scanning all the time, looking through and under the paked cars, keeping a wide margin all the time where possible, blah blah blah blah blah

You get the idea?

 

[Justin182]

lol.... yeah, all very good in theory but it doesnt always go that way though. You drive like that 100 % of the time?

Edit: well actually in built up areas im usually like that but in other more relaxed situations it can catch you off guard is what im trying to say.

 

[MarkCup]

That's my thought process when driving on the road yes. Not in that level of detail in thought, but that's how I would verbalise it to illustrate when giving a demonstration drive.

 

[Justin182]

Yes, i see what you mean, and id too would say all that when demostrating how its done, but you surely would agree that there are time when that focus is just not there ?

 

[MarkCup]

OK, maybe focus was the wrong choice of word.

In what I described, what did I do?

I looked ahead, I was aware of my surroundings, saw the potential for a situation and slightly adjusted my approach. Then when I had to act, I was almost there already as I was looking for something to happen.

This advanced motorist stuff sounds like a load of bo!!ocks, but I love driving, and having had the training, what I described is how I drive every single day. No effort. My head is programmed, and I'm working subconsciously.

It really isn't some magical ability and it takes no effort whatsover. You can do it. Anyone can do it. You just need to learn it from someone in the first place.

 

[Andy_J]

You dont need ESP. It's simple dont drive too fast into corners in the wet, dont drive over wet leaves, dont overtake when there's snow and dont drive like a tit!!

tell that 5 yr old kid not to run out infront of your car... whoops too late you've hit him..


I'm for ESP..

 

[Peperami]

You thinking of abs?

 

[Andy_J]

on the street corner...

 

[Justin182]

OK, maybe focus was the wrong choice of word.

In what I described, what did I do?

I looked ahead, I was aware of my surroundings, saw the potential for a situation and slightly adjusted my approach. Then when I had to act, I was almost there already as I was looking for something to happen.

This advanced motorist stuff sounds like a load of bo!!ocks, but I love driving, and having had the training, what I described is how I drive every single day. No effort. My head is programmed, and I'm working subconsciously.

It really isn't some magical ability and it takes no effort whatsover. You can do it. Anyone can do it. You just need to learn it from someone in the first place.

Fair enough mate, didnt realise youve done the advanced driving course.

Ive always thought im a pretty good and aware driver, although admittedly, sometimes a bit quick.... but not in town etc.

Im always on the look out for dangers and strangely, I tend to have a 6th sense and predict what silly move a car will do before it does. I think most drivers have this to some extent (alot dont though). Still, been driving 5 years and have learnt alot, but have plenty more to learn. What i have learnt though is its not so much your driving you have to worry about, but more that of other numpties around you.

Hopefully my 182 will remain scratch free into year 3. lol

 

[al]

Impressive.

I remember it being demonstrated to us last year at a Renault open day in a meggy 225, was very impressive.

 

[Fred@BTM]

only "small" problem with ESP on 172/182's is when you lift the inside rear wheel, it goes mental and trys to kill you

 

[Noodle999]

I tend to do pretty much what Mark describes, so subconscious is it most of the time that I'd probably struggle to put it into words like he has... The main principle of the approach being never trust another driver and always expect them to do something stupid. I tend to curse the ridiculous things I see people do but I guess it all builds experience to help you predict what a numpty is likely to do next!

Although what Mark describes is the ideal, I think as long as you've got a few shreds of common sense you're probably doing better than most, as a horrendous number of people seem to adopt exactly the opposite strategy (if that word can even be used?) in their driving. Just in the relatively short 12 mile drive into work today I encountered:

- Dozens of people with headlights on, most of which had fogs on too, in lovely bright sunshine
- 5 people straying onto the other side of the road for no reason
- 2 people crossing SOLID white lines for no reason
- 1 person driving the entire length of a right-turn box intended for those travelling the opposite way in order to get into theirs, totally unnecessarily
- 2 people thinking it's a good idea to join a fast dual carriageway at 35mph and hogging the 3-cars-wide sliproad, then deliberately moving to block me when I approach with my right-hand indicator on
- 1 person driving so far up the backside of an artic they could probably read the serial number on the trailer seal, and would have been chewing on it if the lorry driver had so much as touched his brakes
- 1 person (who has to take the prize) coming within a few fag papers of the bumper of an oncoming lorry performing the most horrendous overtake imaginable, to gain one position in a line of about 20 cars stuck behind a bus

...so while most of us are thinking "What potential hazards are there here... how can I avoid them?" it seems most are thinking "How can I pose the greatest hazard possible?" instead... and whereas the Police should be sorting out the fact these people's driving is a shower of s**t, instead they're just harping on about "speed speed speed" as usual.

Anyway, rant over (Grr.)

 

[172.com]

OK, maybe focus was the wrong choice of word.

In what I described, what did I do?

I looked ahead, I was aware of my surroundings, saw the potential for a situation and slightly adjusted my approach. Then when I had to act, I was almost there already as I was looking for something to happen.

This advanced motorist stuff sounds like a load of bo!!ocks, but I love driving, and having had the training, what I described is how I drive every single day. No effort. My head is programmed, and I'm working subconsciously.

It really isn't some magical ability and it takes no effort whatsover. You can do it. Anyone can do it. You just need to learn it from someone in the first place.

You're going to get a major wake-up call one day! Accidents are just that; accidents, you go on thinking you're perfect you're going to end up in a bad way.

 

[Noodle999]

You're going to get a major wake-up call one day! Accidents are just that; accidents, you go on thinking you're perfect you're going to end up in a bad way.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick mate... I would think Mark is very unlikely to have an accident as he does seem to be fairly switched-on when it comes to avoiding them... as for "thinking you're perfect", I think the more worrying people are the ones who think they're fine whilst being absolutely terrible drivers... Mark doesn't appear to have made any claim he's perfect, he just explained his thought process for the benefit of others.

Despite the new Police-initiated fashion of referring to them as "Road Traffic Collisions", the word "Accident" simply implies that it wasn't deliberate... it doesn't mean it wasn't caused by the manner in which somebody was driving, i.e. that they knew was likely to cause an accident, or should have known that it could.

Most accidents are caused by poor driving e.g. many of the things I described in my previous post (by no means an exhaustive list unfortunately!), not speed as the Police would have you believe, which is simply a factor in how severe the damage and injuries are when a collision does occur.

 

[MarkCup]

You're going to get a major wake-up call one day! Accidents are just that; accidents, you go on thinking you're perfect you're going to end up in a bad way.

The fact that I chose to have further training is down to the fact that I, unlike so many drivers out there, accept 100% that I am not perfect, and I would/could/have benefited from training beyond the pitiful standard required to get through a normal driving test. Every single day that I drive I criticise what I'm doing, could I have done something better, should I have picked up on something earlier. It is a continual process of learning.

Lets face it, when you "learn" to drive, you're not learning to drive. You are learning basic car control, the laws of the road and how to stay within them, and what you need to do to pass your test.

Let me put it another way...

Plastering is a skill, craft almost, and to do it well, you need to be shown the methods and techniques to get the best result.

If you set up in business on your own as a plasterer without training or ever having seen someone else demonstrate it, you'd probably get by, but you'd be pretty useless. Of course you would, you'd not have had the benefit from someone passing on their experience to you.

Why is driving any different to that?

Everyone can improve their driving ability, yet sadly the majority out there really genuinely believe that their driving is A1, top notch, faultless, cannot be improved upon.

 

[Dan@SJM]

That's my thought process when driving on the road yes. Not in that level of detail in thought, but that's how I would verbalise it to illustrate when giving a demonstration drive.

Yep having my Rospa and IAM training at the moment, when driving your always expecting the worst case scenario, for instance:

Your approaching a bus stop at 30mph, there is a bus in the bus stop, mirrors, adjust road positioning accordingly(move out towards the centre white line, again mirror, deaccelerate slightly to give yourself more of a chance of reacting intime to a hazard, selet appropiate gear, so for 25mph 3rd, again mirror(possibly warn a close following driver with a slight touch of the pedal to get the lights on) as you get towards the rear of the bus, check every possible exit point for passengers. is there a safe exit route? will a passenger walk out, where can i go if someone does walk out? is there space for another adjustment in road position? Maybe sound your horn? to alert possible passengers not to walk out? as you pass the bus, keep checking for any possible dangers of passengers/kids you've now passed the bus, re position in the road for the next possible hazard, accelerate smoothly, back to 30mph select appropiate gear for speed and conditions.

 

[Lagerlout]

Basically if you buy a Cup you suddenly gain control of everything around you. It gives you like a spidey sense. :rasp:

And I can remember your Cup trying to spin at about 20mph in a video a while back - You got away with it, but ESP would have caught it a hell of a lot quicker than you did!!!

Wether you agree with it or not is a personal thing. But don't try and make out that it's ineffective or that people who have cars with ESP on are somehow lesser drivers as a result.

Driving to work in the wet - ESP on

Driving for dhits a giggles in the dry - ESP off

I prefer to have the choice!!

 

[Lagerlout]

That's my thought process when driving on the road yes. Not in that level of detail in thought, but that's how I would verbalise it to illustrate when giving a demonstration drive.

Yep having my Rospa and IAM training at the moment, when driving your always expecting the worst case scenario, for instance:

Your approaching a bus stop at 30mph, there is a bus in the bus stop, mirrors, adjust road positioning accordingly(move out towards the centre white line, again mirror, deaccelerate slightly to give yourself more of a chance of reacting intime to a hazard, selet appropiate gear, so for 25mph 3rd, again mirror(possibly warn a close following driver with a slight touch of the pedal to get the lights on) as you get towards the rear of the bus, check every possible exit point for passengers. is there a safe exit route? will a passenger walk out, where can i go if someone does walk out? is there space for another adjustment in road position? Maybe sound your horn? to alert possible passengers not to walk out? as you pass the bus, keep checking for any possible dangers of passengers/kids you've now passed the bus, re position in the road for the next possible hazard, accelerate smoothly, back to 30mph select appropiate gear for speed and conditions.

Dude. Your describing what just about everybody does without thinking. Not exactly rocket science!!

 

[Dan@SJM]

Lets face it, when you "learn" to drive, you're not learning to drive. You are learning basic car control, the laws of the road and how to stay within them, and what you need to do to pass your test.

Bang on!

And this is coming from me as i took my test 18months ago. My dad is an ex-traffic police instructor, he told me this "right now you've passed your test, you now learn to drive" Now, being the young 'im invincible' kind of person that EVERYONE is when they pass they're test i didnt believe him, he came out with me for a few drives each weekend teaching me what they used to teach police drivers. And now after 1 large accident, its all clicked in, and going to Rospa, i realise how much of it dad taught me in the same wording as they are. I highly recommend anyone going to the IAM or Rospa, not only does it help you as a driver, but when you get your test pass, it brings the insurance down too.

 

[Lagerlout]

Yep. Is an age old saying that you pass your test and then start to learn to drive.

 

[Dan@SJM]

Yep having my Rospa and IAM training at the moment, when driving your always expecting the worst case scenario, for instance:

Your approaching a bus stop at 30mph, there is a bus in the bus stop, mirrors, adjust road positioning accordingly(move out towards the centre white line, again mirror, deaccelerate slightly to give yourself more of a chance of reacting intime to a hazard, selet appropiate gear, so for 25mph 3rd, again mirror(possibly warn a close following driver with a slight touch of the pedal to get the lights on) as you get towards the rear of the bus, check every possible exit point for passengers. is there a safe exit route? will a passenger walk out, where can i go if someone does walk out? is there space for another adjustment in road position? Maybe sound your horn? to alert possible passengers not to walk out? as you pass the bus, keep checking for any possible dangers of passengers/kids you've now passed the bus, re position in the road for the next possible hazard, accelerate smoothly, back to 30mph select appropiate gear for speed and conditions.

Dude. Your describing what just about everybody does without thinking. Not exactly rocket science!!

No, this is the point, most people dont. only the switched on people do. Look at the above post by noodle. If everyone thought like this there wouldnt be any accidents. but there are idiots on the road, lets face it, we've all been one at one point in our years of driving.