heavy oil consumption

[asmith88]

1.5 dci 65 bhp engine, put a litre of oil in last week, it was below the min mark, put 1 litre in and drive about 200-250 miles,

checked oil again today and theres NO mark on the dipstick even though the trip computer says oil level ok?

the car has only 55k on the clock, but when started it puffs out blue smoke then settles until the car is stopped and started again,

the turbo is whistling and there is a little (very small) amount of play in the intake propeller,

the egr is clean and the intake pipe is a little oily but not too bad.

any ideas?

if it is turbo are they handy/quick to change at home?

thanks

 

[rampantreaper]

if turbo is noisier than normal its b uggered . dont drive it,lol. not advisable as a diy job

 

[sideways danny]

turbo is a bit of an arse to change. there's a couple of bits that were very obviously designed to be fitted with the engine out the car, which makes it very frustrating. It is possible though

 

[asmith88]

awkward then, i have worked as a technician before, just not sure what this would be like without ramps and power tools,

im not sure if its noisier than normal, just got the car just whistling, when boot to the floor,

any guides or threads i can have a look through?

 

[asmith88]

took the car for a drive today, the car has not had too much power issues,

yesterday i took the egr valve out and clean it out completley,

today mot time, passed and drive fine there, but driving back it was almost undriveable, stuttering at low revs with no power, got it home,

now the car starts and ticks over perfectly, but when i plant it, the engine slowly increases its revs shaking and going chug/chug/chug , so it is completley undriveable, any ideas? would the turbo cause this spluttering and chugging?

 

[skiddusmarkus]

Head gasket/rings?

 

[asmith88]

Starts perfect though, won't rev at all, surely headgasket and it wouldn't. start?
Any more ideas

 

[rampantreaper]

if its got no warning lights on might be an air leak

 

[asmith88]

which pipes leak?... no warning lights,

seems strange as the car has been a little smokey, but has been driving perfect apart from that, just all of a sudden decided to die on me

 

[skiddusmarkus]

If you are using that much oil then its either getting in through the inlet manifold which would probably mean a knackered turbo oil seal or from leaking piston rings allowing oil to pass them or exhaust gases to pressurise the oil system and force oil through a breather in the top of the engine into the induction-I presume there's a breather pipe going from the head to the intake pipe(I'm not that clued up on diesels).

The HG thing-if it was damaged it would drop the compression massively and would chug chug like you said and you'd lose oil.Other things that can cause chugging are leaking exhaust manifold and leaking injectors-both would cause power to drop too and you'd probably smell gas in the cabin.

 

[regi james]

couple of things to check:
1. injector seals look for a pool of a tar lke substance around one or more of the injectors, this would cause your symptons (they only cost £2 from renault)
2. Take all the glow plugs out and check if any of them are covered in oil.
you've already checked the egr valve, if the turbo ws gone this would be covered in oil.
I know this because I had a dCi 65 with the same issues

 

[asmith88]

the egr valve was sooty, but fairly normal, no wetness, not too bad, if it was the headgasket, would the car still be able to idle? it idles perfect just chugs and cuts out when i hit the accelerator,

if off work tomorrow so i need a list of things to check tomorrow, after i get oil in it, also the car hasnt been driven in a few days now so the glow plugs may have dried off

1.pipes all connected etc
2.injector seals
3.glow plugs

anything else to add to this list,

i have all day tomorrow to poke around at it

 

[asmith88]

the turbo was whistling so it sounds like its gone anyway but a busted turbo wont cause the engine to chug will it? just no power?

 

[regi james]

very unlikely to be head gasket they are very strong. could be a faulty injector though, you could check the electrical resistance accross them not sure what it should be without looking but if one is different to the other 3 or is open circuit then you have a problem.
if you have plenty of time you could take the pipe off the turbo that goes from the air filter and check for any play in the shaft

 

[asmith88]

i checked that at the weekend, there is a little play in it, not hanging off, but a little

 

[asmith88]

ok got some oil in it and am going to wait for it to warm up and then put some flush in it, i noticed this morning that if i put my foot on half throttle it revs up fine and smoothly put when i put it to the floor, chug chug , shake shake,

 

[asmith88]

also noticed there now that there is a few bubbles in the diesel where it goes into the hp pump

 

[regi james]

also noticed there now that there is a few bubbles in the diesel where it goes into the hp pump

nothing to worry about thats quite normal.
just make sure when you operate the primer that it works correctly, if it stays in then the strainer in the tank will more than likely be blocked and would explain the problems you are having

 

[asmith88]

primer pops out fine, took the egr out again, it was jammed open with some soot,

cleaned again replaced and the car was running much better but still blazing out smoke, so next bet i guess is turbo,

i have been offered one for 175.00, but before i buy it i need to know what sort of job i have, is it handy enough without ramps, and decent powertools, and how long are we talking to do it.

a guide or write up would be handy

cheers

 

[regi james]

it should just unbolt, I have never done one though but I imagine it would be quite fiddley. if your interested in gaining power out of your engine it may be worth looking at a dCi 100 turbo as these have variable geometry its still a kp35 turbo im sure people on cliodCi.net have done it

 

[asmith88]

hmm, nah just want to swap like for like, make sure everythings as straight forward as possible,

anything else it could be, which pipes is it that block up?

 

[regi james]

can't remember without looking lol i got rid of mine a few months back.
cleaning the egr out may cause a lot of soot to be burnt off.
you sure you look the whole valve out and not just the solenoid?, they normally take a bit of tapping to get out
EDIT: just read the opening post again 99% its your turbo, if the seal goes it will burn its own oil off and seft distruct so if I were you I wouldn't drive it to much

 

[asmith88]

yea definatley had the whole valve out, just want to pull all the pipes off tomorrow to double check, i heard that if the pipes are blocked the pressure will push oil through the seals, sound true?

 

[regi james]

yea definatley had the whole valve out, just want to pull all the pipes off tomorrow to double check, i heard that if the pipes are blocked the pressure will push oil through the seals, sound true?

If the oil return pipe from the turbo was blocked I guess it would push all the oil out though the journal

 

[asmith88]

is that the pipe which goes from underneath the turbo to the sump,

 

[regi james]

is that the pipe which goes from underneath the turbo to the sump,

the very one

 

[asmith88]

super , will get that pulled out in the morning to double check, anything to save a little money,

 

[skiddusmarkus]

If it revs fine when you slowly apply throttle then it does sound like it could be the turbo.If the oil seals go then it can just keep pumping oil into the engine which will burn and the engine will rev faster and faster and eventually self destruct.You can't even turn the engine off.This happened a lot on the Laguna DCi engine(sub standard turbos from new)and people were having to stall the car by stopping and putting in a high gear but this has its own problems and can damage the clutch/flywheel.

 

[asmith88]

after i unjammed the egr valve it revved fine

 

[Martin_172]

strange for it to be loosing oil but egr valve not covered in oil, usually thats what shows up a shagged turbo, have u rulled out an oil leak?

 

[gothy]

could be an old intake pipe collapsing under the pressure, and the leaky oil seals.

 

[asmith88]

got a 2nd hand turbo today, pulled the old one off but before i put the new one in, one of the old oil o rings has split, so il get some new ones in the morning and let you know how its running when the turbo is in,

anything i should be doing whilst at it,

i have cleared and cleaned the egr manifold
cleared the oil pipes
cleared the air pipes

anything else i should check or do before i build it back together?

 

[Martin_172]

that sounds fine, maby worth putting fresh oil in it while your at it if it wasnt done recently

 

[asmith88]

turbo in today, idled fine, and seems wuite torquey low down, but as soon as it goes over 2.5 revs it has no power, seems to be a little smoke under the bonnet as well,

still blowing smoke out the exhaust but i only took it for a very little drive,

any ideas why power would be low?

 

[regi james]

think your gonna need to get it on diagnostics if I was gonna guess I would say boost pressure sensor but without seeing it its hard to say.
Take it your new turbo is a known good unit and the waste gate is set up correctly?

 

[asmith88]

the car the turbo was on ran fine, does that sound like a boost sensor fault? can i check the resistance? would the eml light not show ?

 

[asmith88]

dont know if the waste gate is set up properly, came off a 1.5dci so i am assuming its fine

 

[skiddusmarkus]

Any fault lights on the dash?My Laguna dci had one come up that limited boost/power and it turned out to be a broken wire on the map sensor.Once soldered up it ran fine again.

 

[MicKPM]

The Laguna II DCi's, especially the F9Q's had a known issue with broken boost pressure sensors and associated wiring breaking at the connectors and we used to cable tie the wiring down to stop it happening.

This is deffo turning in to a job that needs you to see the Live data stream to go forward without wasting time and money. The EGR position sensor could be an issue if its been in and out several times meaning it may need reseting/replacing or it could be a boost pressure sensor issue as mentioned above or something else... would be £25-35 well spent IMHO.

Mick

 

[asmith88]

Skinny pipe from the airbox was disconnected; runs much better, still smokey, but should I expect that for a while so it clears itself out