Help choosing new camera

[Ian]

Hoping some of the CS elite photographers can give me a hand ironing out the differences between a few cameras?

My budget is around £350 and it will most likely be a Christmas purchase and then I'll probably follow that up with a second lens next year.

Now as far as I can tell the cameras I should be considering are the Nikon D40, D60 and Canon 350D and 1000D.

Obviously this will give rise to the old Canon/Nikon debate, but I'd rather it didn't get down to that please! Can anyone give impartial advice on what I should be ruling out and why?

Thank yee!

 

[NOT! gary l]

I could have made that post myself, ive got about that to spend and those seem the choices, il watch this thread with much anticipation.

 

[unofficialPete]

Forget the 350D & 1000D, I'd rather get a 400D from the Canon refurb store.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Canon-Outlet_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ0QQftidZ2QQtZkm

Saying that, http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/ says that the 400D is just inside budget.

 

[Ian]

Cheers Pete, that was my feeling tbh. The 1000D seems a slightly lower spec and the 350D is ageing a bit now from what I'm reading.
How does the 400D compare with the two Nikon models?

 

[unofficialPete]

Yeah the 1000D is a new camera that takes lots of bits from the 350D, was happy with mine (350) but the AF wasn't the best and had a rather small screen, I'd say the 400D is well worth a little more.

I've not handled either the Nikons but on paper the 400D seems much better, 9 point AF vs 3 point, dedicated buttons for ISO etc & a much larger selection of lenses that can Auto Focus. You need to buy AF-S Nikon lenses or HSM Sigma lenses with the D40 & D60. With the Canon you can mount all Canon EF/EF-S lenses and a massive selection of third party gear.

As for the ergonomics, maybe head to a Jessops and have a play with either see which you prefer.

 

[182-racing-blue]

Dont buy a Sony!!!

 

[dk]

Dont buy a Sony!!!

i don't see why not, they get good reviews, might not have the pedigree for DSLR's but they certainly have the range and features to match any nikon or canon.

 

[182-racing-blue]

i don't see why not, they get good reviews, might not have the pedigree for DSLR's but they certainly have the range and features to match any nikon or canon.

I say it every time someone wants advice.

There was a big debate a while ago zzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Long story, I'm just being a (ock.

 

[Ian]

Not that I have anything against Sony, but I'd rather not consider them for this. I know the Nikon and Canon brands are both highly proven and highly capable so that'll do me!

I am planning to get to Jessops in the next few weeks, but I was just letting people have their input first. For example I spoke to a mate today, who said he wasn't that impressed with the D40, which surprised me after all the good things I'd previously heard.

I'm now thinking it's between the D60 and the 400D. Not solely because of what he said, but because the D60 is obviously a slightly better equipped camera than the D40.

Gotta say I was impressed with the shots that halfpint took with his new D60. Does anyone own a 400D on here?

 

[dk]

for your budget, i'd say the 400d, wouldn't worry about picture quality, its more to do with talent and what lens you use really.

I've got some amazing shots with my 350d with decent lens's.

 

[Ian]

Yeah I totally agree. I've got a long way to go with talent which is why I'm hoping to get a body that I won't have to upgrade for a while.

Are there any other differences apart from the AF? Can't really see any:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/com...as=canon_eos400d,nikon_d40,nikon_d60&show=all

Also if it turns out I prefer the D60, is it worth getting the VR lens?

 

[Brett]

Wouldnt go to jessops Ian, you'll save £'s online.

 

[Ian]

Just to get a feel for the cameras Brett, think that's going to be the deciding factor in the end. Will buy online once I've chosen, like you say - it's a lot cheaper!

 

[Brasseye]

the 18-55 vr lens that comes with the d60 is very very good for a kit lens
£330 delivered use Discount Code SAVE10 http://www.dixons.co.uk/product.php?sku=859726&source_id=aw&camp_id=DVD Bargains

 

[ukaskew]

Easy answer:

Hold all the cameras in your price range.

You will probably answer the question yourself after doing that. Photographically they are going to be essentially identical, none of them will give you better pictures than the other.

 

[unofficialPete]

Wouldnt go to jessops Ian, you'll save £'s online.

Not always true, have bought my last two bodies from there, lowest prices at the time, every now and then they are cheapest for certain stuff.

 

[dunganick]

I say it every time someone wants advice.

There was a big debate a while ago zzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Long story, I'm just being a (ock.

At least you can admit it now

Both the canon and nikon bodies are very good, however i believe the Nikon body will limit you with lense choice much more than the canon will. (lense must have auto focus motor or some such)

Just bare in mind if you decide you enjoy photography and want to update the body you may well wish to use the same lenses as well.

 

[Paul_G]

It is really all about personal taste and feel. The difference between the various competing Canon and Nikon DSLRs is pretty small and you'll get great image quality whichever you choose.

As others have commented, if this is going to become a proper hobby, be prepared for the wallet to take a little bit of a hammering.....lenses, tripod, flash, bag, filters, the list goes on.....and also considering that ultimately you are buying into a 'system'. Once you've selected a particular brand and bought the accessories to boot the cost to change brand can be pretty prohibitive.

So the best thing to do is pop down to your local camera shop and have a play with the various cameras. This will give you a much better idea of how they feel and operate, rather than reading endless reviews and comparing spec sheets.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Ian]

I suppose I knew this would be the conclusion all along, but I was hoping that there would be a reason to buy into one or the other, however that was never gonna happen!

I've always had a preference for Nikon, but until I've held both cameras I'm not going to commit!

Thanks for all the advice, I'll try and get to Jessops during the week if I can find it in Liverpool. The Trafford Centre is a bit manic for weekend shopping now. Hopefully I'll have a thread up over Christmas if all goes well. Until then I'll keep practicing with my S5700.

 

[MaLicE]

i would go second hand d200 or d80 or similar tbh then the lens limitations dont come in to it

 

[Ian]

Ok not really been looking around much for cameras in the past few weeks, but I'm back on it now.

I went to Jacobs in Liverpool a few weeks ago and tried out the D60. To be honest it was a bit scary, not used to having to use the viewfinder lol. Didn't feel like it would take too long to get used to the camera though and it was solidly built.

However, every time I look on Flickr and find a photo I like, 9 times out of 10 it's taken by a Canon.. is this just me seeing things?

I'm looking into alternatives to the D60, but Canon don't seem to have one in their current range, apart from maybe the 1000D, but I think that's a bit basic.


Sooo.. what about this: http://www.lcegroup.co.uk/SHdetails.asp?Item=4513

A 2nd hand Canon 400D with 18-55 lens for £249. Is it a good camera; does anyone use these shops? Advice please!

 

[ukaskew]

However, every time I look on Flickr and find a photo I like, 9 times out of 10 it's taken by a Canon.. is this just me seeing things?

I think you're seeing things I wouldn't worry about things like Flickr when it comes to camera bodies, it's not really going to prove or disprove anything as you have the two key variables missing, operator and lens. I've seen many a rubbish photo with a Nikon D3, doesn't mean it's a crap camera.

Handling is pretty much all you need to worry about imo, the photos you take are going to be much the same be it a Canon or Nikon.

 

[Ian]

Ok thanks Chris In that case it worth getting a second hand 400d and spending the money I save on a second lens or going for the newer D60? How do the kit lenses compare?

 

[Brasseye]

IMO the kit lense with the D60 is really sharp and great to start with

 

[ukaskew]

Nikon usually come out on top with the kit lens, slightly better quality than the Canon offerings but it's not going to be hugely noticeable.

Only issue is that the cheap Canon cameras are compatible with almost all lens out of the box, the D40/D40X/D60 won't autofocus with some lens (such as the cheap 50mm 1.8)

Swings and roundabouts!

 

[JJ!]

I would go with the D60, as ukaskew mentioned, the Canon has a lot of cheaper glass, but having used the 450D and 50mm 1.8 I wouldn't say go for the canon just for that. After using it for a bit I found it slow and noisy and was a bit disappointed with the pics.

I have found the 18-55 VR better than the 18-55is, it feels better built, it was better in low light.. was struggling to get any decent shots indoors with the canon and no flash, and the Nikon focused quicker due to its internal motor and was sharper.

I'm sure there will be lots of people not agreeing!!

 

[Ian]

Yeah totally understandable I guess.

Think I'll just stop umm-ing and arr-ing and pick up the D60, especially if it's out there for £300 now. Hopefully will have the money next summer to pick up a second lens.. probably better doing it that way, as I'll get less distracted and hopefully learn more!

 

[JJ!]

My advice is use the kit lens for a bit, you will then get an idea of what you like taking pics of the most, what focal lengths you need etc, then upgrade from there! The 55-200 VR is a great addition to any Nikon bag - light, small, VR and good IQ.

 

[joshhatton]

i would go with the nikon i am in the same situation just borrowed a d80 and love it im thinkgin the d60.

i have found the cannon lenses to be allot more expensive and the nikon range is much bigger.

the d40 is horrid to hold but ccheap and good waulity

 

[unofficialPete]

i have found the cannon lenses to be allot more expensive and the nikon range is much bigger.

Isn't it completely the reverse? With exception of the 200 F2 IS/VR Nikon lenses cost a fair amount more, at least the mid range/high end ones do.


Anway, back on track IanFlaherty have you tried playing with any of the camera's?

A 30D went on the Canon Refurb store for 315 notes last week, not the best starting lens but a far better body than the current entry level ones from Canon or Nikon.

 

[Jungle_Jim]

if your looking at second hand mate then i would look at the canon 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D (RRP around £1000 when new) range over the canon 300D, 350D,400D, 450D (RRP around £500 when new) range. the reason for this is the 300d range is essentially a budget dslr range where as the 20D range is for high amateur / semi pro. the main advantage of this is that the build quality is far better, you get a solid magnesium body rather than a plastic one.
also dont forget its not all about megapixels, as an amazing camera will be wasted with poor quality lenses on it. a canon 20D might be a good starting point leaving you some £££ for a decent lens

 

[Ian]

The only camera I've played with is the D60 Pete and it felt like a decent piece of kit. I would try others, but the models I'm looking at from Canon tend to be 2nd hand and I've not found anywhere in Liverpool where I could try them. I know of a place in Manchester, but I don't really have time at weekends. Might try the 40D at Jacobs if I get chance.

I'm not too bothered about Megapixels, I realise that picture quality depends on a whole range of factors.. not least the person using it. I would look at the higher ranges, but unless you can tell me different Jim, I believe they'll be out of my price range? Anything over £350 is pushing it for me tbh. I've not got an eBay account to bid with either and not sure my folks would approve as my brother had a few bad experiences with it..

Lastly, how much of a jump is it from a D60 to a 20/30/40D etc? You've got to bear in mind that I'm coming from a Fuji bridge model and I don't particularly want to be overwhelmed!

Thanks again,
Ian

 

[dk]

The canon users will tell you theirs are the best and the nikon the same, and there seems to be a lot more nikon users on this particular forum.

As mentioned before, you really need to go into jessops and spend 10 mins with each camera and see which feels best, both are excellent, both have excellent lens's.

Its like choosing between lambourghini and Ferrari, some people like the one, others like the other, they are both very competant at what they do and neither will leave you disappointed.

A 450d is a lot lighter than a 40d though and i'm guessing the same is the case for Nikon, some people prefer the lightness of the 450 but others feel it is too small for people with large hands. So some preople prefer the extra size and weight of the 40d, but others find it quite heavy with a decent lens on etc.

The 40d is a bargain at the moment since the 50d came out and would be a good second hand buy from people upgrading to the 50d, its a very competant camera. I'm not very familiar with the nikon range so am not sure how it compares to the d60 but from what i have heard about the d40, thats something to avoid because of the lens compatibility etc.

Not sure what happened to JJ but he seems to have had a bad experience with the 450d but I see plenty of amazing pictures from them so it really can't be an issue with the camera in general, either he got a bad one or didn't know how to fully exploit it compared to the nikon etc.

thats my as unbiased view as possible post anyway, your choice, lambo or ferrari!

 

[///AMG]

Whatever you go for wait till monday at least...2 1/2 % off VAT

 

[JJ!]

I think people get caught up thinking that just because its Canon, its better. Which (IMO of course) is not true!

Through experience of using both Nikons and Canons I have chosen Nikon.

Prehaps DK has not mastered the use of a superior Nikon eh?

And as or lenses, there is a huge range that work on the D60/D40. Yes there are more canon lenses and you can use lenses going back to the dark ages, but Nikon make a wide range of AF-s lenses from 50mm prime to 300mm Zoom. Plus both Sigma and Tamron have now realised that they need to cater for Nikon owners and also produce a wide range of lenses with built in motors. In general, this makes AF-S lenses quicker to focus than the budget canon models, until you get to the more expensive USM Canon lenses.

The trouble is, the basic Canon Lenses use a micro motor, which just does not cut it against AF-S and USM.

Canon L glass and a lot of there mid-entry glass is excellent, but if you can afford L glass, you shouldn't be putting it on a crop sensor!!!

And for reference, these lenses will work on the Nikon, there have been some new ones since too:

Nikon
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED
AF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S DX VR Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G IF-ED
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED II
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED
AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED
AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED
AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 200-400mm f/4G IF-ED
AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED
AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S VR Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8G IF-ED
AF-S VR Nikkor 300mm f/2.8G IF-ED
AF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8D IF-ED II
AF-S Nikkor 600mm f/4D IF-ED II
AF-S VR Nikkor 200mm f/2G IF-ED
AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4D IF-ED
AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/4D IF-ED II
AF-S Nikkor 50mm f1.4

AF-S Teleconverter TC-14E II
AF-S Teleconverter TC-17E II
AF-S Teleconverter TC-20E II

Sigma
12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG ASPHERICAL HSM
17-35mm F2.8-4 EX DG ASPHERICAL HSM
APO 50-500mm F4-6.3 EX DG HSM
APO 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG MACRO HSM
APO 100-300mm F4 EX DG HSM
APO 120-300mm F2.8 EX DG HSM
APO 300-800 F5.6 EX DG HSM
APO MACRO 150mm F2.8 EX DG HSM
APO MACRO 180mm F3.5 EX DG IF HSM
10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM
APO 50-150mm F2.8 EX DC HSM
30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM
50mm F1.4 EX DC HSM
APO 800mm f5.6 EX DG HSM
APO 500mm F4.5 EX DG/HSM
APO 300mm F2.8 EX DG/HSM
80-400mm f4.5-5.6 EX DG OS

new Sigma additions

17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro HSM
18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro HSM
18-50mm f/3.5-5.6 DC HSM
18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 DC OS HSM
55-200mm f/4-5.6 DC HSM
4.5mm f/2.8 EX DC Fisheye HSM
10.mm f/2.8 EX DC Fisheye HSM

Tamron
18-250mm AF F/3.5-6.3 Di II
18-270mm AF 3.5-6.3
17-50mm f2.8

 

[dk]

but AF-S is just a size, canon do AF-S lenses too?

USM, I think all my canon lenses have this, even the cheaper ones, its quite common now.

L glass, hardly only for full sensors, my 70-200 F4L, the best lense I own is one of the cheapest at £400, not exactly expensive so fine for something like a 450d.

Don't forget, the 40/50D are cropped sensors, if you can afford a £1000 50d, i'm sure a £400 L lens is ok.

Lets face it, canon make some wonderful glass (although its so good its not even glass ) and have all the same options than nikon do, but do nikon really have anything that can beat L class glass?

I've never used a Nikon, i'll happily admit that, I was bought a canon and so have stuck with that but i'm not disappointed with that option, canon glass IMO is amazing and there isn't much that can beat the image from the 70-200 L, its simply stunning and oh so fast its unbelievable sometimes.

but as already said, some people are nikon, some are canon. I see a lot more paps using canon, very noticeable from their easily identifiable off white L lenses, so if its good enough for them then it will do for me, and it doesn't bother me that decent glass costs money, you only get what you pay for at the end of the day.

Plus its more down to the operator, and my equipment is better than I am so i have no worries in it not being good enough, its me that needs practice!

 

[Ian]

dk and JJ: my case in point

I think you're both at a level above where I will be with a good camera or without and as such you both have valid points outside of my comprehension. I will try out a few more cameras when I get chance, won't be this week though as I'm snowed under.

 

[JJ!]

My equipment will always be better than me lol!

AF-S does not refer to the size.. well.. in Nikon is does not anyway!!

AF = motor inside camera body
AF-I = Motor inside lens
AF-S = Silent Wave Motor
HSM (Sigma Lenses) = Hyper Sonic Motor (lens originates form Star Trek lol)

As for Nikon Matching L glass, the 200mm F2 VR has been reviewed as sharper than a lot of L glass - but its a lottery winning lens at just under 3k!!!! lol!

 

[dk]

no. its ok, it was a blonde moment from me, i meant EF-S, as in crop sensor designed lens

I now see what you mean.

 

[dk]

dk and JJ: my case in point

I think you're both at a level above where I will be with a good camera or without and as such you both have valid points outside of my comprehension. I will try out a few more cameras when I get chance, won't be this week though as I'm snowed under.

like i pointed out, my equipment is better than i am, i have seen some amazing shots that i couldn't even do form equipment costing a quarter of what i own.

Its very much about the operator, having an eye for a good shot etc.

Whatever you buy will be fine to start off with, you simply cannot go wrong!