Help needed on Next Stages of my track day 172 Cup

[JamesBryan]

I'd possibly go 9kg front and 8kg rear.

So 500lb/450lb.

 

[JamesBryan]

13kg would be to much for a car driven on the road you'd think. Will go 8/8kg and take it from there. Just need to find £800 now, lol.

Yeah the front would be hard as f**k.

I couldn't believe when my mate who races in Civic Cup told me his were 16kg/18kg! Haha.

Properly stiff!

 

[JB21]

Jeez 16/18 is crazy, suppose not to bad though if only ever driven on smooth tracks. On the road that would be horrendous!

 

[Martin.]

If you're looking to spend around a grand on suspension, I'd really consider reaching that little bit further and getting the ASTs. They will be the best you can buy.

My current AST setup is 460lbs front and 475lbs rear. That is pretty stiff for the road but great on track!

15 inch wheels would be a great swap.

I've got a Sparco black suede steering wheel. Basically the same as the Renaulsport one just without those words and in black.

On dry trackdays, switch the rear ARB to the stiffest setting. It might make a bit of an improvement. You may not even notice much of a difference.

 

[JamesBryan]

I agree, AST's would be the ideal setup. But you're talking £1500 and if you are already stretching to buy £800 coilovers then finding another £700 is a bit much.

Plus, you have to deal with Curtis :tongueclosed:

 

[JB21]

AST's are not an option for me really unless a decent used set come up, I cant justify spending the same on coilovers as to what the car is worth. I don't do enough track days either. BC's will feel like a huge step up for me currently running budget ECP springs and OE dampers.

 

[JB21]

Back on spring rates, just doing a bit of reading at its a mine field. Some say you want stiffer rates at the rear on a fwd car so weight isn't transferred backward losing front end grip, which makes sense. Whereas others say stiffer rates at the front. I know this varies form car to car, but most decent coilover kits I've seen for the 1*2 have a slightly stiffer spring rate at the front, so some testing must have gone into this set-up for the 1*2? I personally would like a neutral set-up, whereas others like a car to oversteer slightly, as I say minefield!

 

[JamesBryan]

Stiffer rear will encourage it to be a tad more lively.

I know @NorthloopCup said he prefered the front a bit stiffer.

 

[JamesBryan]

As you say, it's a complete minefield and a lot is down to personal preference.

If you start with 8kg/8kg and see how you get on, you can always get some harder springs for £40 a piece.

 

[JB21]

Stiffer rear will encourage it to be a tad more lively.

I know @NorthloopCup said he prefered the front a bit stiffer.

Lively is definitely not for me, I had a 'lively' moment going through Island bend last time out at Oulton, I was like a granny through there the rest of the day, losing 2s a lap over last time out. I blame the rear cage for stiffening the chassis up :grin:.

 

[JamesBryan]

Lively is definitely not for me, I had a 'lively' moment going through Island bend last time out at Oulton, I was like a granny through there the rest of the day, losing 2s a lap over last time out. I blame the rear cage for stiffening the chassis up :grin:.

Yeah, i don't like lively either. My whiteline arb in the wet is murder, so i just unlink one side.

 

[JB21]

I'm not so bad with it at lower speed corners but at 100mph I shat myself, lol. Must keep my foot planted!

 

[JamesBryan]

I'm not so bad with it at lower speed corners but at 100mph I shat myself, lol. Must keep my foot planted!

The roll you would have had on standard springs wouldn't have helped mate, at that speed.

It'll feel much better round Island Bend on coilovers.

 

[JB21]

The roll you would have had on standard springs wouldn't have helped mate, at that speed.

It'll feel much better round Island Bend on coilovers.

Can't wait, just saving for a deposit on our first house so not allowed to buy them yet, booooo!

 

[JamesBryan]

Can't wait, just saving for a deposit on our first house so not allowed to buy them yet, booooo!

You can live in a car, you can't drive fast in a house :tonguewink:

 

[NorthloopCup]

It's when you come down craner curve flat out with the rear trying to overtake the front and some right hand opposite lock to correct it, then have to straighten it up for the old hairpin, have the back try and overtake the front (again) and apply some left hand opposite lock to straighten the car up. That's a lively rear end! All corrected at 3 figure speeds, and I was also sporting a broken finger at the time, which I twatted on the steering wheel whilst furiously applying oppo.

 

[JamesBryan]

It's when you come down craner curve flat out with the rear trying to overtake the front and some right hand opposite lock to correct it, then have to straighten it up for the old hairpin, have the back try and overtake the front (again) and apply some left hand opposite lock to straighten the car up. That's a lively rear end! All corrected at 3 figure speeds, and I was also sporting a broken finger at the time, which I twatted on the steering wheel whilst furiously applying oppo.

Yeah, done Craners sideways at the end of last year in the wet 😂

 

[3d3dman]

Quick update, I have just received my new BC racing DR kit with 9kg front and 8kg rear springs after the advise I received from this thread so thanks for that, the kit looks great, the only concern is the rear height adjustment, I was under the impression the kit was fully adjustable at the rear however Kam racing said the only adjustment was using the spacers for the springs, it looks like on the shock itself you can adjust the height however Kevin from Kam explained not to do this. Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[Christopher]

It's when you come down craner curve flat out with the rear trying to overtake the front and some right hand opposite lock to correct it, then have to straighten it up for the old hairpin, have the back try and overtake the front (again) and apply some left hand opposite lock to straighten the car up. That's a lively rear end! All corrected at 3 figure speeds, and I was also sporting a broken finger at the time, which I twatted on the steering wheel whilst furiously applying oppo.

Amazing. Haha

 

[JamesBryan]

Quick update, I have just received my new BC racing DR kit with 9kg front and 8kg rear springs after the advise I received from this thread so thanks for that, the kit looks great, the only concern is the rear height adjustment, I was under the impression the kit was fully adjustable at the rear however Kam racing said the only adjustment was using the spacers for the springs, it looks like on the shock itself you can adjust the height however Kevin from Kam explained not to do this. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Adjust the height using the spring perch iirc. The adjustment on the rear shock might be the set preload height.

 

[3d3dman]

Adjust the height using the spring perch iirc. The adjustment on the rear shock might be the set preload height.

Thats what I was thinking, is this an issue, do you know what the height is as standard?

 

[JamesBryan]

Thats what I was thinking, is this an issue, do you know what the height is as standard?

I don't know mate. Just leave the shock as it is and use the two collars on the spring perch to adjust the height.

 

[JB21]

So you squash the springs with spacers to lower the ride height?

 

[NorthloopCup]

You would adjust the height using the height adjuster in the hub and the spring perch to preload.

 

[JamesBryan]

I'm on about the rears. The front height adjustment is done using the bottom collar and physically lowering the whole coilover down.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I'm on about the rears. The front height adjustment is done using the bottom collar and physically lowering the whole coilover down.

Oh I thought we were talking about the front! Lol

 

[JamesBryan]

Oh I thought we were talking about the front! Lol

Lol, I think it's the rear anyway haha

 

[3d3dman]

Yeah it was the rear I am talking about, I understand the front end. I will go for the larger spacer at the rear, just to confirm the spacer goes on the bottom of the spring?

 

[JamesBryan]

Yeah it was the rear I am talking about, I understand the front end. I will go for the larger spacer at the rear, just to confirm the spacer goes on the bottom of the spring?

Yeah I think they do mate.

 

[3d3dman]

Also what firmness setting on track are most going for and any geo recommendation for track focuss?

 

[bloke]

i've got one in at the mo on bc's with no shims on the rear if you want me to grab you a pic of how it sits?

 

[3d3dman]

i've got one in at the mo on bc's with no shims on the rear if you want me to grab you a pic of how it sits?

That would be great to see

 

[bloke]

That would be great to see

will grab one tomorrow or saturday for you.

 

[JamesBryan]

Also what firmness setting on track are most going for and any geo recommendation for track focuss?

Dampening is all personal preference really mate. You've got 30 clicks to play with, say start at 15 clicks front and rear and see how it feels.

As much camber as you can get really.

Toe out 12-15 minutes or 0.2-2.5 degrees depending what your alignment place works in.

 

[Sam Linssner]

Run my bc's on full hard, whiteline rarb, spacers, camber and 15's with some grippy tyres. Very capable setup :up:

 

[JamesBryan]

Run my bc's on full hard, whiteline rarb, spacers, camber and 15's with some grippy tyres. Very capable setup :up:

Doesn't that bounce around to f**k?

 

[3d3dman]

Dampening is all personal preference really mate. You've got 30 clicks to play with, say start at 15 clicks front and rear and see how it feels.

As much camber as you can get really.

Toe out 12-15 minutes or 0.2-2.5 degrees depending what your alignment place works in.

And this is good for pure track use the settings, I have 1.2 15" alloys on order but initially I will be using 16" turinius with sticky tyres, from 16" to 15" will I have to change the full setup again?

 

[3d3dman]

Also I have a pms arb currently running on the hardest setting - is this ok with the bc's? When on track I am on it pushing like crazy

 

[JamesBryan]

And this is good for pure track use the settings, I have 1.2 15" alloys on order but initially I will be using 16" turinius with sticky tyres, from 16" to 15" will I have to change the full setup again?

Yes mate, good for both setups. Although going from 16's to 15's you'll want to lower the ride height a bit further, so the alignment will need checking after that.

You want some rake too, so the rear being 10-15mm higher than the front.

 

[3d3dman]

Yes mate, good for both setups. Although going from 16's to 15's you'll want to lower the ride height a bit further, so the alignment will need checking after that.

You want some rake too, so the rear being 10-15mm higher than the front.

I assume the 10ml to 15ml is measured based on the front and rear sill height to make sure the rake is correct or am I basing this on the arch to wheel measurements ?