Help with Trophy steering

[Keith185]

Handling on my Trophy doesn’t feel right at all. One of the camber bolts moved when I went over a bad hole last year and knowing I needed new tyres I held back getting it re-alligned. Fitted 4 new tyres (went from Exalto’s to Pilot Sport 3’s) but has never felt right. Seems to be nervous and tramlines. Only time it feels decent is on smooth tarmac.

It’s had new wishbones and ball joints around 24 months ago. Had the dampers refurbished 10 months ago along with new top mounts and springs. New arb bushes. Had new track rod ends two weeks ago before getting full alignment done at Demon Tweeks. Had everything checked on front end for wear and play several times and done this myself. Steering rod ends have been checked one side fine other a tiny amount of play but nothing excessive to cause the issue.

Have taken tyre pressures up from 30-31psi I ran with Exalto’s to 34psi, which improved things a bit but still it feels sloppy and tramlining. Dampers feel solid and no signs of leakage.

To eliminate the new tyres out of equation and their softer side wall I fitted my track tyres/wheels tonight. Track tyres accentuated the pulling/tramlining even further also pulling to the left. This being worse on less smooth tarmac both high and at low speeds irrespective of speed tbh.

Guys at Birchdown have been awesome helping me but I’m obviously comparing it to how if felt before (having owned it almost 5 years now) and mechanically they can’t find anything worn.

Think that's all the info I have. Not really sure where to go now? Don’t want to admit it but only thing I can think of next is to get dampers off and bench tested, new track rods and re-alligned. Any help would be greatly apprechiated

Before Last allignment

After and how it is now

Keith

 

[Keith185]

Sorry about photo rotation, photobucket being awkward

 

[Keith185]

Anybody?

 

[aucky]

Have you checked the rear dampers?

I found PS3 need more pressure than PE2.

33psi and 31psi (cold pressure, front and rear respectively) for normal use was okay.

 

[Keith185]

Have you checked the rear dampers?

I found PS3 need more pressure than PE2.

33psi and 31psi (cold pressure, front and rear respectively) for normal use was okay.

Yeah rear dampers brand new 10 months ago, rear beam bushes all checked too.

They're better with higher pressure but still feels like it tramlines and pulls way too much as if the allignment is out.

 

[aucky]

Temperature?

I just went from winter tyres to PS3s. It's 2degC here this morning and it feels like driving on wooden cartwheels with the PS3 by comparison.

 

[v16daf]

I hope it's ok to ask on here. Do birchdown set up camber and alignment? Thanks

 

[Joe#]

They use demon tweeks iirc Daf.

 

[v16daf]

They use demon tweeks iirc Daf.

Tidy, anybody know if there any good? Roughly how much it costs?

 

[Joe#]

I haven't used them personally, but there's a thread on here somewhere.

 

[Keith185]

Tidy, anybody know if there any good? Roughly how much it costs?

I'll put the price up from Tweeks for alignment when I get home for you Daf

 

[Sam@NP]

Have you checked tie rods? Also those print out are showing 2.5 degrees of positive camber, or are they just missing he - sign?

 

[Jon.G]

Have you checked tie rods? Also those print out are showing 2.5 degrees of positive camber, or are they just missing he - sign?

Pretty sure thats castor mate.

Have you tried removing the camber bolts and just running factory alignment?

 

[Sam@NP]

oh yeah what a tit.

 

[Keith185]

Have you checked tie rods? Also those print out are showing 2.5 degrees of positive camber, or are they just missing he - sign?

They've been checked by lads at Birchdown. Some play on one side but nothing more than they've seen before. They're the only original part on the front end now (excluding the rack and steering column) so think it'd be worth changing them regardless because otherwise cant think of anything else that would be causing it?

 

[Keith185]

Have you tried removing the camber bolts and just running factory alignment?

Haven't, but will do if I cant sort it soon. Have ran more negative camber last year without any problems though.

 

[Keith185]

Tidy, anybody know if there any good? Roughly how much it costs?

£43.20 i paid last 2 times I've been there

 

[v16daf]

£43.20 i paid last 2 times I've been there

Thanks, I'll get her booked in after I do a few things

 

[KevF182]

It looks from one of your pics that the rear "thrust angle" is out, admittedly not by much. Could the rear have hit the pothole also, taking a bit of a heavy jolt one side? (Clutching at straws here!!!)

I would investigate the possibility of trying to get the rear axle mounted a bit straighter. I've not touched mine so I'm not sure its even possible, but there may be a tiny bit of scope to alter its alignment where it is mounted to the chassis? Maybe wrong there though.

 

[Keith185]

It looks from one of your pics that the rear "thrust angle" is out, admittedly not by much. Could the rear have hit the pothole also, taking a bit of a heavy jolt one side? (Clutching at straws here!!!)

I would investigate the possibility of trying to get the rear axle mounted a bit straighter. I've not touched mine so I'm not sure its even possible, but there may be a tiny bit of scope to alter its alignment where it is mounted to the chassis? Maybe wrong there though.

Hadn't noticed the thrust angle and toe on the rear, too focused on the front. Driver side a lot more than pasanger, regardless of if that's issue i've got that needs to be sorted. Thanks

 

[bearne1]

Had the front end of mine 'refreshed' with new ball joints, bearings, ARB bushes and top mounts only to get a call from my mechanic 'did you know you have oil leaking from one of your shock absorbers'? Was stunned as had mine refurbed in May 2010 and never expected them to fail so quick.

I suspect your problem will lie with one of the dampers - mine has not felt 'right' for a while and hoping now my nearside damper has been rebuilt it should feel like new again (and have kept 2 brand new PE2's as do not feel comforable with the PS3's that are going on)

 

[Keith185]

Had the front end of mine 'refreshed' with new ball joints, bearings, ARB bushes and top mounts only to get a call from my mechanic 'did you know you have oil leaking from one of your shock absorbers'? Was stunned as had mine refurbed in May 2010 and never expected them to fail so quick.

I suspect your problem will lie with one of the dampers - mine has not felt 'right' for a while and hoping now my nearside damper has been rebuilt it should feel like new again (and have kept 2 brand new PE2's as do not feel comforable with the PS3's that are going on)

This had been concern with mine. Know one lad on here had his refurbished after mine and they lost pressure soon after. Have checked them for leakes and 'bounced' the corner and both seem as solid as the day when they were done.

One issue I found though were with the adjusters. They had been marked up with the default setting but when I took them fully soft then back to middle the marks were 1 or 2 clicks out on one side. Need to do this again to be 100% sure but since I did this it feels a bit better.

Will have them off soon and hopefully find somewhere to dyno test them.

Not liking the feel of the PS3 at all, reason why I'm looking into solid top mounts now too.

 

[aucky]

PS3 are w**k.

Well, they're not, they just aren't as good as PE2

 

[bearne1]

This had been concern with mine. Know one lad on here had his refurbished after mine and they lost pressure soon after. Have checked them for leakes and 'bounced' the corner and both seem as solid as the day when they were done.

One issue I found though were with the adjusters. They had been marked up with the default setting but when I took them fully soft then back to middle the marks were 1 or 2 clicks out on one side. Need to do this again to be 100% sure but since I did this it feels a bit better.

Will have them off soon and hopefully find somewhere to dyno test them.

Not liking the feel of the PS3 at all, reason why I'm looking into solid top mounts now too.

I rock and bounce my suspension all the time and no sign of any problem. Would strongly take dampers off for a thorough physical inspection. Going forwards will be taking mine off every 3 months to clean / check.

How often do you adjust the dials? I got into the habit of adjusting mine all the time and wondering if this is such a good idea!

Decided I'm going to stick the PS3's on the back and put the new PE2's on the front.

Hope you get it sorted at little cost, mine has cost me a fortune so far this year and its demoralising to fix one problem only to find another twice as bad!

 

[bearne1]

PS3 are w**k.

Well, they're not, they just aren't as good as PE2

Agree!

Also noticed with my worn front tyres that the PS3 wears quicker. The front PE2 had over 3mm tread and the PS3 around 2.5mm.

 

[Keith185]

I rock and bounce my suspension all the time and no sign of any problem. Would strongly take dampers off for a thorough physical inspection. Going forwards will be taking mine off every 3 months to clean / check.

How often do you adjust the dials? I got into the habit of adjusting mine all the time and wondering if this is such a good idea!

Decided I'm going to stick the PS3's on the back and put the new PE2's on the front.

Hope you get it sorted at little cost, mine has cost me a fortune so far this year and its demoralising to fix one problem only to find another twice as bad!

Got my 182 cup dampers and old springs from Mam and Dads garage tonight so will swap them over Saturday hopefully. Easiest way to eliminate/prove its a damper issue. Then that'll give me chance to take everything off the Sachs to see the piston shaft.

 

[Jon.G]

PS3 are w**k.

Well, they're not, they just aren't as good as PE2

What else is there though? I'm properly stuck what to buy.

 

[aucky]

Nothing really. Hankooks are alright, and better value, but not better outright as an all round tyre.

 

[Keith185]

Fitted the 182 cup dampers this afternoon and on initial test drive it's all a lot softer damped and that's about it. Still have the tram line/pulling, loose feel to steering.

Will take the springs off the Sachs tomorrow to have a proper look but no signs of leak. Fingers crossed they look perfect. So can move on with my next plans.

 

[Jon.G]

When you get the springs off, have a good look at what the piston rods are doing.

 

[Keith185]

Both look perfect. No signs of leak anywhere. And car still feels the same (all be it softer) with the cup dampers, old trophy springs and top mounts.

Next up, replace track rods regardless, shim rear right and will be going for solid top mounts because I was planning on come summer anyway and might aswell now seeing I'll need to get alignment all set up again.

Fingers crossed it'll be ok once everything's done.

 

[bearne1]

Both look perfect. No signs of leak anywhere. And car still feels the same (all be it softer) with the cup dampers, old trophy springs and top mounts.

Next up, replace track rods regardless, shim rear right and will be going for solid top mounts because I was planning on come summer anyway and might aswell now seeing I'll need to get alignment all set up again.

Fingers crossed it'll be ok once everything's done.

Put all mine back together on Thursday and had alignment setup but still did not feel right. Found out the front wheels needed balancing after I thought the tyre place would have done this when the new tyres were fitted! Place up the road from me said the wheels had no weights on either!

Whilst it mainly affected the drive in a straight line it felt very odd when steering, just a thought for your situation!