Hold on a minute....how much toe???

[chrispy.clio]

So please note I took my car to a local company to get my tracking set for my track car.

car has -3.5 camber and I wanted 2mm toe out.

On the hunter machine it said -2.00 for the toe. Is that 2mm out or 20mm out?

Can someone confirm please?

 

[Fred@BTM]

that's 2 degrees LOL i surprised you can drive it! that's about 6mm give or take

 

[Fred@BTM]

apprx 1.5mm is 30min (half a degree) which is still a fair bit split as total toe (so half per wheel)

2mm PER WHEEL is -0.40 (total) -1.2 but thats A LOT!

 

[Sam@NP]

Bloodyhell, got turn in?

 

[Fred@BTM]

oi youth is my maths about right or is my old age getting to me, it's nearly 8 years since i left the alc-o leaning centre

 

[NorthloopCup]

oi youth is my maths about right or is my old age getting to me, it's nearly 8 years since i left the alc-o leaning centre

Your maths is correct Fred! It changes a small amount dependant on wheel size though.

 

[Dan519]

that's 2 degrees LOL i surprised you can drive it! that's about 6mm give or take

205 gti I bought had 5 degrees toe out. ruined a set of tyres driving home from collecting it.

jon_r's ph1 had about 4 degrees toe out when it came in to me the other day, and 4 degrees of camber one side

 

[Adamm.]

Am I right in the understanding that more castor increases camber on turn in?

 

[MG cup]

More caster creates more dynamic camber, i.e when the car is moving and the steering is turned the camber increases periodically with the amount of steering angle you put in. Not to be confused with just better turn in.

More caster will also pull your wheels into line quicker i.e like a shopping trolley and this improves steering feel also and gives better breaking stability.

 

[Tony Hunter]

it's nearly 8 years since i left the early leaning centre

 

[chrispy.clio]

Haha, Amazing! Usless company!!!

Luckly i can redo my toe with some equipment from work. Thanks for the maths then Fred!

 

[Fred@BTM]

its only approx as it changes with wheel size, but that's "on average"

 

[chrispy.clio]

Oh and the car did actually handel ok, it was very slippy and the car had some fun lift off oversteer. But i only drove for just over 1 hour and then got black flagged for been too loud (at Bedford)

 

[chrispy.clio]

Oh ok Fred, i'll do a little more research/math and re-do the toe!

 

[Tony Hunter]

I run with a total 2mm toe out.

 

[Fred@BTM]

so -0.20 per wheel

 

[Tony Hunter]

Not a fkn clue old boy, they can set the machine to mins or mm, I ask for mm as I'm old.

 

[Fred@BTM]

that's the modern way, you should've asked for a 1/16th inch toe out

 

[Tony Hunter]

I'll get my ruler out.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Sin A = amount of toe out / rolling radius


So for a clio with a 15" wheel you are looking at roughly
7.5 * 2.54" = 190mm
195 * 0.50 = 97.5mm
= 28.75cm

Yours was apparently 2 degrees, so to convert to mm its simply a case of:
Sin 2 = 0.0349

So 0.0349 = X / 287.5

0.0349 * 287.5 = 10.0mm of toe out



IMHO thats far too much

Wind each track rod end in about 2 turns and you will be in a much better place.


Thats IF it was definately in degrees in the first place, if its in mm then its about right anyway really, although personally for on the road I try and keep in the 0-1mm region really.

 

[Fred@BTM]

you atually paid attention in maths?

 

[Chip-mk1]

you atually paid attention in maths?

I loved maths at school, in fact so much so that I took my gcse in maths early then in the time I had when everyone else was still doing their maths lesson I got a book to read on statistics and taught myself that well enough to get a B pass in that too.

The teachers used to really dislike the fact I was always messing around in class, never did my homework, was always getting put in detention for fighting etc and then proceeded to still get top grades in all my exams despite them saying I didnt deserve to, FLOL
The smarter teachers realised if they gave me something to do like a kid who was struggling to teach then I behaved and was useful though, teaching people is something Ive always enjoyed, its a shame teachers earn f-all or I would have been one I think!

 

[chrispy.clio]

I have a picture and its defiantly in degrees!

you can physically see the wheels are pointing out quite a bit. But if I'm honest I just believed that they had done it right!

Anyway I'll get it changed soon, Chip it's just a track car so doesn't get driven on the road. I'm just trying to get as close to Tonys set up as possible as his car handles well!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah Tonys seems to have just the right amount of twitchyness to be very good at changing direction but not so much of a handful it makes it slower.


BTW Ive just realised I included the tyre in my example, but its actually more normal to go just off the wheel itself, in which case 2 degrees would be about 7mm not the 10mm I mentioned.

 

[chrispy.clio]

Either way, its far too much!! I saw a few pictures from the trackday and its quite obvious that it had too much!


So if i want 2mm toe out on the front. Does that mean its 1mm each side?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Either way, its far too much!! I saw a few pictures from the trackday and its quite obvious that it had too much!


So if i want 2mm toe out on the front. Does that mean its 1mm each side?

Yes mate you are correct, 1+1 does indeed = 2

 

[chrispy.clio]

Phew thanks chip, those figures were starting to make me sweat!!!

Haha, I mean when you say you have -3.5 deg of camber you have that figure on both wheels. So when you say you have 2mm of toe out i wasnt sure if you had it on both wheels or not.

I just wanted to make sure i get it done/do it right this time!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yeah, better to be safe than sorry, so I guess Tony could mean either 2mm per wheel or 2mm total, people quote both, so best to just check with him, but would imagine he means total.

Im making the assumption he means 1mm per wheel from this:

I run with a total 2mm toe out.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Indeed.

 

[LIL B]

Tony's "toe" is incredible.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Toe out.

 

[skydiver]

L.O.L.:bump:

 

[Steven103]

I loved maths at school,

Does the idea of measuring toe (at an inevitably different radius depending on the car/operator) as a distance rather than an angle mildly infuriate you, or is it just me?

 

[Greeny.]

I had 1.00 toe in... was interesting in the snow, shat myself a few times.

Out of interest, im on 16's running the 'standard' -0.10 toe out, how much will this change with 15's?

 

[MG cup]

I had 1.00 toe in... was interesting in the snow, shat myself a few times.

Out of interest, im on 16's running the 'standard' -0.10 toe out, how much will this change with 15's?

Not a great deal mate. Could be doing with a little more though if that's 10 minutes your meaning?

 

[Greeny.]

Not a great deal mate. Could be doing with a little more though if that's 10 minutes your meaning?

Unsure tbh, this was a hunter reading 1.00?! Degree I think looking at the symbols!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Does the idea of measuring toe (at an inevitably different radius depending on the car/operator) as a distance rather than an angle mildly infuriate you, or is it just me?

It winds me up when people think they can copy settings in distance even if they are on a different car with different size wheels, but as I sometimes use old school line and rulers to measure toe (did it on mine last weekend actually courtesy of josh cook lending me his setup) it is realistically the only way to do it, so therefore im kind of used to it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I had 1.00 toe in... was interesting in the snow, shat myself a few times.

Out of interest, im on 16's running the 'standard' -0.10 toe out, how much will this change with 15's?

If you mean .1 degree then it wont change.
If you mean .1cm (ie 1mm) then it will change to .107 instead, ie not enough to measure really, it needs to be a big change like 15-18 before it starts becoming an issue really.

 

[p@blo]

Hold on a minute....how much toe???

I lol'd. Very good

 

[Chip-mk1]

I lol'd. Very good

Yes there was certainly a degree of humour there.