how to get more Clarity

[craig20102010]

Currently in my system i have:

Pioneer DEH8600MP headunit (brand new)
Direct Extreme Amp CLASS D 500Watt 250Watt RMS @ 2ohms

JBL 10" GT4s 1000watt Peak 250Watt RMS x2


If i changed the speakers to two Directed Subs 12" or to two JL audio 10" subs am i likly to tell the difference in clarity of the bass? My mates runnin two JL audio 15" subs off that amp as well.

Currently bass is set on half on the amp and -12 on the headunit and its very loud :Sjust want more Rounded bass

What should i be lookin for when choosing good subs? e.g


Dual Voice coil?
Frequnecy range
RMS Power?
Cheers Craig

 

[Dink]

what box are the subs in?

turn off any bass boost on the amp and h/u will help loads.

 

[craig20102010]

No bass bost on my headunit turned on cuz it sounds sh*t if u do that there all turned off

Boxes are both Sealed enclosures the correct Sizes

ive got a bass boost turned on the amp which is 12DB i cud swtich it down to 6 or turn that off

 

[Dink]

12 db boost is LOADS (id put it on a max of 3db).

 

[craig20102010]

illtry turnin that off then see wot happens prob go loads Quieter i can choose to set it to 6DB or 12DB i think ill just turn it off see wot it sounds like.

Ive got loads of Settings on the Headunit as well for the Subs im gona ave to take Pictures of the settings and someone can try help me set them up correctly cuz i can set different frequncys, slopes on the headunit its on like 50Hz -12 for first settings (50Hz lowest it will go i think) and then for Slope its on -12DB it will go to -18 and -6DB too and i think there is another one

 

[Dink]

you will want to set the LPF to 80Hz @ -12db/ocv(slope)

and if there is an eq you might want to put them to 0
[Edited by Dink on 4/20/2005 3:24:53 PM]

 

[craig20102010]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/craig.wood1/bikethings/SW3-setting-slope.jpghttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/craig.wood1/bikethings/SW3-setting-slope.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/craig.wood1/bikethings/SW2-Setting-LV.jpghttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/craig.wood1/bikethings/SW2-Setting-LV.jpg

FOR pictures to load need to put "( )" around "slope" and "LV" for some reason it wudnt let me. e.g "(slope)"

tere the two Settings on my headunit that i can ave as ucan see on the bototm one does that LV stand for low pas filter ? i can cahnge the HZ to 80 on that one is that where u mean to change it?


[Edited by craig20102010 on 20 April 2005 at 4:08pm]

[Edited by craig20102010 on 20 April 2005 at 4:09pm]

[Edited by craig20102010 on 20 April 2005 at 4:11pm]

[Edited by craig20102010 on 20 April 2005 at 4:12pm]

 

[Dink]

you want to put the slope on -12db/oct

and put the LV to 0 ands 80Hz and see how that sounds

 

[Dash]

My old eyes. I thought this said Clarty.

 

[craig20102010]

THE LINKS SHOULD JUST WORK NOW

ive tried that now it does sound a bit better but i always thought that the LV had to be on the lowest frequency to get more of a solid bass sound Without any surrounding noise.

Ive got the otehr Settingo n -9 since the bass is just to loud i think i might turn the Gain down on the amp a little bit.

on the settings on the Amp i have the following:

FILTER BASS BOOST X-OVER GAIN

LPF 6DB 50HZ just over half way

They are the settings that i have the Amp set on




[Edited by craig20102010 on 20 April 2005 at 4:52pm]

 

[Dink]

you only want to use one LPF (id use the one on the h/u)

the LV setting on the hu should be set to 0 (the way you have it set up at the mo is you are reducing the output from the hu then boosting it with the amp).

if you put the x-over cut off point to low then you sub will hardly be doint anything.

 

[Rorrie]

have you tried putting all eq settings to 0 and bass boost to 0, then re-set your gains? (put gains to min, turn hu up until it starts to distort (usually about 3/4) turn it 1 or 2 notches down, then slowly turn the gains up until it starts distorting, then turn slightly down)

as dink says abut lpf, put it somewhere between 70-90 (whatever sounds best) also bass bost great for quality, so as dink says, reducing it at hu (not the best eqs (those in HUs)) and then increasing it elsewhere will take away from quality. also will leave you for skope up front to adjust for diff songs if needed.

 

[craig20102010]

Quote: Originally posted by Rorrie on 20 April 2005


have you tried putting all eq settings to 0 and bass boost to 0, then re-set your gains? (put gains to min, turn hu up until it starts to distort (usually about 3/4) turn it 1 or 2 notches down, then slowly turn the gains up until it starts distorting, then turn slightly down)

as dink says abut lpf, put it somewhere between 70-90 (whatever sounds best) also bass bost great for quality, so as dink says, reducing it at hu (not the best eqs (those in HUs)) and then increasing it elsewhere will take away from quality. also will leave you for skope up front to adjust for diff songs if needed.





So bassically if i turn the amp filter to HPF i shudnt get speaker noises outa my amp? i just want bass if u get me i was told to put the filter on LPF for just bass sounds but that was when i had my old sh*t sony headunit with no settings ive never had settings like this to play with on the H/u b4 so was just little unsure on wot they did.......

As far as im Aware the LV is just like ur bass control like u ave it on -3,-7 on the H/u to make the bass quiter and on the amp fairly high to the point of where it nearly distorts so u can adjust it all easily from the h/u for different songs. Thats how i understnd it and i cant see it been used in any other way

I just wanted to know wot the Slope did and the frequnecy range on the SW2 setting.

So turn the filter on the amp to HPF then on the H/U just keep it at 80HZ nd it shud still be just bass notes????

 

[Dink]

no you ideally want to turn the filter off on the amp.

 

[craig20102010]

Quote: Originally posted by Dink on 20 April 2005

no you ideally want to turn the filter off on the amp.

Yeh i think i can its called "Flat" ? so just turn that onto Flat cuz then there will be no filter switched on ? correct??

 

[Dink]

yeah that sounds like the setting.

 

[craig20102010]

o kthen well i know if i put it on that b4 with my sony it just gave out Mid range sound for like full range speakers but i didn tave these settings then so if i can control taht from the headunit im unsure on wot to put the x-over on and things like that just read it had to be on pretty low on the Amp for more solid bass sounds

 

[Rorrie]

sorry? you dont have a LPF on you amp? you want the HU on flat (0 on all freq), that definate, then at the amp put your low pass filter on, and have it set to somewhere from 70-90 hz, that should sound better.

Or do you not have a low pass filter on your amp? (or was dink talking about flat in regards to the HU and the amp part was a typo)

 

[Dink]

yeah i meant put the hu on flat , honest

 

[Rorrie]

sorry that wasnt meant to be a dig!!

 

[Dink]

m8 i didnt think it was

that was me admitting to knowing f**k all about car audio

 

[craig20102010]

nd ur trying to tell me how to set it up :S Just jokin

ive now put the Amp on to Flat so not on LPF no more xover on the amp is on bout 50Hz gain is half way

On headunit the LV is on -2 and on 80Hz Slope on -12DB/oct

so now im controllin it completly from headunit more or less since its only Giving out bass notes still even tho the amps on Flat.

the bass still doesnt sound solid its hard to explain when ur Writing it since it cud be sounding solid to u lot but not to me :S sounds like every Beat i get its like fuzzy to wards the end of every beat not like a solid Punch

i was wounderin if it cud be:


Subs
Boxes being Maybe SLIGHTLY different were talkin millimeters
Cables not being fat enough goin to the Subs/amp (currently running 8gauge cabling)
the music im listeing to (dance, trance mainly) sounds okish for Rap stil not as Punchy as i wud expect tho
any answers i would appreichate still cuz its driviing me daft

Picture of my system currently still uncomplete cuz i cant get Right sounds!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/craig.wood1/bikethings/back-to-front-big.jpghttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/craig.wood1/bikethings/back-to-front-big.jpg

[Edited by craig20102010 on 21 April 2005 at 9:50pm]

 

[Dink]

have you checked to make sure they are both in-phase?

if you still think it dont sound right try lowering the x-over point slightly (65Hz) or making the slope steepier (-18db/oct)

 

[craig20102010]

how can i check to see if their both in Phase :S by just lookin ? they look in phase nd ive tried makin the Slope Steeper and lowering the xover to 65Hz

wot about the x over on the amp tho?

do u think it cud be the subs ??

 

[Dink]

in phase means that + on the subs are connected to the + on the amp and same for the -s.

if you have got the switch to flat on the amp that means it is not using the x-over onthe amp

 

[craig20102010]

oh rite cheers for Clearing that up i was woundering why the x over wasnt doin anything on flat.

there deffo connected to the right Leads if there not it just makes the subs 10X quiter and like u sed outa phase.

So any other surgestions?

Bearing in Mind im sorta goin off wot im hearing from two 15" JL audio Subs nd how nice they sound runnin off same Amp nd sh*tter headunit.

 

[Rorrie]

Sorry you have taken lpf off, so xovers will not be working, lpf hpf decide which way the xovers work. you need the lpf, if i have misuderstood yourstatment and lpf is on, you have the amp cutting off from 50 up, and with a car your size (cabin gain ect) the peak freq would be from 55-60 ish maybe up more, so it will appear quiter, and your fronts will not be able to play (well if at all) down to 50 hz. Try rasing you lpf on your amp to 85 or 90, put everything to flat, and reset your gains (are you setting them by guess or properly?)

and try turning off ALL eq settings on the hu, no filters nothing.

and if the boxes are sealed sub will fade off allot more toward 40hz (hence why most ported boxes are tunned to 30-40hz range (street bass ))

Also who made the boxes? it could be that they arent sealed properly.

As for upgrading you equpminet, yes that will impove things,( but much sure the subs are in and set up first before you make any desisions to change.) the jls will drop much more (being 15s) but will be slower than ther counterpart 10s. it depends if your looking for quality or sheer volume or a bit of both in terms of subs (and amps) and how much your willing to spend on upgrades



HTH

rorrie

 

[craig20102010]

Im trying to set it up propperly.

So u want me now to turn LPF on? put the X over on the AMP to 85Hz round about.

Reset the Gain on the amp back to wot??? or just play with it till it starts distorting then turn it down a bit b4 it is at distortion level?

front speakers on Car are just runnin off the headunit only thing that runnin of Amp is the Subs Which is all im trying to set up.

then wot bout the settings on the headunit will they make any difference now? since the amp is got LPF on its practically in control.

Leave the settings on the H/U as described b4?

 

[Rorrie]

well, dont alter anthing on the hu to do with the bass yet. The EQ on the HU will be making differences to the signal it is sending down the rcas.

I have my HU on a setting called Defeat - whcih turns all eq setting off.

put the xover to 85hz on the amp,

set the gains i would sugest reading this -

http://www.bcae1.com/gaincon2.htmhttp://www.bcae1.com/gaincon2.htm

If you want to try, you could try putting back on the xover on your HU back on to say only just slightly lower than the amp (say 80hz) dont think there will be any advatage to you tho.

if there is too much trebel, maybe bring that down, and if not enough midbass (around 100-120 hz) bring that up ect.



see how that sounds, but are you sure your boxes are totally sealed? did you make them yourslef?

 

[Rorrie]

EDIT - you could have the advatage of using the LPF on the HU, if you set it to the say 80 and then HPF to 80 as well, but not sure how well your fronts will drop to that or below it! what fronts are you using?

 

[Rorrie]

just found the thread on TA!

 

[Dink]

seems i was right putting the amp on flat and the hu on lpf.

anyway you should get it sorted now you got a thread on ta.

 

[Rorrie]

i never disagredd with the amp on flat, i said to turn off bass boost, i only disagreed with the HU having the eq on, which i still belive it shouldnt.

as for the xover on the HU, yes i can see the benefit now, also i didnt really understand some of the posts about that!!