Hows the IT industry ? - Info on training needed

[BRUN]

my dad got made redundant yesterday, photographer for 30+ years, he is wondering about going on some kind of training to work in IT instead, when i was at uni there was loads of IT jobs around but im not so sure its the same anymore

i think the IT support fellas where he worked have told him to look into MCSE stuff, do you need to do other things before anyone will take you on such a course ? he isnt totally useless with computers but obviously his specialist knowledge is mainly based around photoshop and images etc

 

[DMS]

You don't need to go on courses to attain an MCSE TBH.
I got mine through a conbination of experience and setting up my own test environments to practice what I learnt from CBT Nuggets training videos. Then just book the exams through Prometric and get tested when you're ready for each one.
You do need to know your way round Windows (including server OS's) first however.

The industry doesn't seem to be anywhere near as hard hit as other industries. The company I work for are actually going to have to set on an additional 60+ staff in the first half of 2009 because of the amount of work they're winning.

 

[KDF]

Everyone wants to work in I.T. !

To be honest he would have start off on a low desktop support job on a crap wage until he has some experience... Cert wise he should start off with a simple MCDST and work up from there.

 

[DMS]

I agree fully.
To get anywhere in IT you really do have to start from the bottom and work your way up.
It's best to plan an MCSE from the start. I did this and it made me more focused. You can also work it so that you're as highly qualified as possible at any given point.
This is how I did mine.

Exam 70-290: Managing and Maintaining a Windows Server 2003 Environment (got me an MCP)
Exam 70-620: TS: Microsoft Windows Vista, Configuring (got me an MCTS)
Exam 70-291: Implementing, Managing and Maintaining a Windows Server 2003 Network Infrastructure (got me another MCP)
Exam 70-299: Implementing and Administering Security in a Windows Server 2003 Network (got me my MCSA)
Comptia Security+ accreditation. Counted as elective credit and got me the MCSA: Security accreditation as well as the seperate Security+ accreditation.
Exam 70-298: Designing Security for a Windows Server 2003 Network.
Exam 70-293: Planning and Maintaining a Windows Server 2003 Network Infrastructure (another MCP)
Exam 70-294: Planning, Implementing and Maintaining a Windows Server 2003 Active Directory Infrastructure (another MCP). After completing this exam, I had the MCSE: Security accreditation.
I have also done the exam 70-351: TS: Microsoft Internet Security and Acceleration (ISA) Server 2006, Configuring. This counts as an elective exam towards an MCSE or MCSE: Security accreditation, although it didn't in my case. I just had to do it because my job requires me to know a lot about ISA server.

Of course, this isn't the only way to go about getting an MCSE, MCSE: Security or MCSE: Messaging. There are 4 core exams to take, one client OS exam which has to be taken (choice of 3), and 3 elective exams where you choose what you want to learn about. If you go for a security or messaging specialisation, there'll be an additional exam to take at some point. You can also take the exams in whichever order you like.

 

[172boost]

Certifications are all well and good but if you don't have any experience then 99% of companies won't take you on. There are too many good people around to need to take the risk. The I.T. industry is slow at the moment to put it mildly.

 

[DMS]

Certifications get you noticed. Experience gets you the better jobs.
Always good to have both IMO.

 

[Reyes]

This thread wasn't for me, but thanks!!

 

[172boost]

Both together are great, but experience far out ways certs if you only have one or the other.

 

[iain187]

same, I am lucky in that I have the experience and do the job, I just need the qual for when I want to go elsewhere!!

 

[furry_cup]

new media IT industry is a bit tuff at the mo!

 

[RSi Dave]

Candidate Profile as from MS website

Candidates for the MCSE on Windows Server 2003 certification typically have at least one year of experience implementing and administering both network and client operating systems. They are knowledgeable about the planning, design, and implementation of Microsoft Windows server solutions and architectures in mid-sized to large companies.

I am in the process of doing mine at the moment, so far tried to get my 70-291 but failed my first attempt, got a free resit however so better luck next time for me. I have been working in IT for around a year and a half.

 

[DMS]

Both together are great, but experience far out ways certs if you only have one or the other.

Definitely.

 

[Michael172]

Networking or programming.

 

[Paul RN]

Any pleb can get an IT job

 

[CupDude]

Are there any good study resources for these (apart from the books)?

I'm working my way through 70-431 at the mo - looking for mock tests and the like

 

[dk]

IT industry is where its at at the moment, IT is not seen as a negative cost in the recession, its seen as a way to get out of the recession if played well.

We are just as busy as ever at the moment and haven't seen a downturn yet.

As for the experience/qualification thing, I think the qualifications are going to have more chance of getting you an interview as they are the things people scan cv's for and if they aren't on there then no matter how many years you have worked it isn't going to get you noticed at the early stage imo.

Experience doesn't necessarily make you any better than someone whos got a certification but very little experience either, the number of people i've met who have been doing a job for ages but do it badly or so far away from the recommended way to do it is a joke, they taught themselves and even though what they do works, its totally wrong and could be so much better if they had done a proper course, been tested on their knowledge and then could put those best practices into action.

As said, combination of both is best but you are unlikely to get the interview in the first place unless your cv stands out with the letters they are scanning for to make sure you match up to the job spec they are looking for.

Oh and as for jobs in the it industry, its one of the most cried out for skills, there are too many jobs and not enough skilled or qualified people to do them at the moment.

 

[CrippsCorner]

Oh and as for jobs in the it industry, its one of the most cried out for skills, there are too many jobs and not enough skilled or qualified people to do them at the moment.

Funny, I always hear it the other way around... too many people not enough jobs to go round!

We've been touch and go at work the last few months, we are sub-contracted to work for Renault, and they don't wanna pay us as much as last year :dapprove: I see the chance of a payrise this year slowly slipping through my fingers!

 

[BRUN]

thanks for all the repies, he is currently considering his options

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I'm studying toward an MCSE. I was a bit dubious at first considering I've not had any IT jobs. But I have been playing with everything computers since I was 4, and haven't met a single tech so far that could teach me anything so I'm confident I'll be alright.

As others have said, I'd be concerned if he doesn't know much about computers and wants to learn from the ground up. But then by the looks of things, quite a lot of others do it and get jobs so who knows....

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Funny, I always hear it the other way around... too many people not enough jobs to go round!

We've been touch and go at work the last few months, we are sub-contracted to work for Renault, and they don't wanna pay us as much as last year :dapprove: I see the chance of a payrise this year slowly slipping through my fingers!

TBH I agree with dk although I'm not in a position to say what jobs are and aren't available. I meet so many dumbarse techs who definately WOULDN'T have their jobs if the employers could pick and choose.

 

[Adam K]

.

 

[Android]

The RAF are crying out for IT staff ! Also need photographers

 

[DMS]

Are there any good study resources for these (apart from the books)?

I'm working my way through 70-431 at the mo - looking for mock tests and the like

CBT Nuggets!
You won't get any mock tests, but the training videos are bob on.

 

[dk]

I'm studying toward an MCSE. I was a bit dubious at first considering I've not had any IT jobs. But I have been playing with everything computers since I was 4, and haven't met a single tech so far that could teach me anything so I'm confident I'll be alright.

As others have said, I'd be concerned if he doesn't know much about computers and wants to learn from the ground up. But then by the looks of things, quite a lot of others do it and get jobs so who knows....

LOL, you're a bit confident, obviously hang around with art people but thats ok, you'll soon find someone who knows more than you once in the industry if you go that way.

I am constantly meeting people who know a lot more than me and are always teaching me things about 'computers' and I have been working in the industry for nearly 15 years.

Trust me, you may think you know computers having messed around with them but its a totally different world once you delve into the industry and work with real techies!

 

[DMS]

LOL, you're a bit confident, obviously hang around with art people but thats ok, you'll soon find someone who knows more than you once in the industry if you go that way.

I am constantly meeting people who know a lot more than me and are always teaching me things about 'computers' and I have been working in the industry for nearly 15 years.

Trust me, you may think you know computers having messed around with them but its a totally different world once you delve into the industry and work with real techies!

I second that.
I'd never met anybody who was at good as me at what I do until I started working for the company I work for now. Before I thought my skill set was immense, I now realise it's just average.

 

[The Hoff]

^Very true, for instance this week I was meeting with our GP, and for 3 days couldn't work out why this new policy wouldn't apply to users logging onto our new XenApp 5.0 farm...spent 3 days p1ssing into the wind. I then queried it with someone and they nailed it down in about 5 minutes, the User loopback processing wasn't enabled.

It's like that all the time at work, and it's one of the reasons why time on the job is so vital (providing your team is well rounded), it's as good/better than any course I've sat.

Really enjoying work at the moment, just about to start our Mitel VoIP roll-out, got an email archiving project after that, then SAN and finally virtualising everything - Interesting year ahead.

 

[dk]

^Very true, for instance this week I was meeting with our GP, and for 3 days couldn't work out why this new policy wouldn't apply to users logging onto our new XenApp 5.0 farm...spent 3 days p1ssing into the wind. I then queried it with someone and they nailed it down in about 5 minutes, the User loopback processing wasn't enabled.

It's like that all the time at work, and it's one of the reasons why time on the job is so vital (providing your team is well rounded), it's as good/better than any course I've sat.

Really enjoying work at the moment, just about to start our Mitel VoIP roll-out, got an email archiving project after that, then SAN and finally virtualising everything - Interesting year ahead.

what are you going to be using for your email archiving, i'm a symantec enterprise vault installation engineer amongst other things, seems to be the product most people are gong for at the moment along with file and sharepoint archiving too.

 

[The Hoff]

Well I was looking at a Barracuda based system, but I'm also currently researching a GFi Archiving solution - much less expense, and it's primarily to circumvent the continual .PST (hate them) issues we have. We only have about 300 mailboxes, so not a massive outfit.

Sharepoint is something we've decided to forget about for now, we just wouldn't have the time on top of everything else to recreate our network/shares and permissions on top of everything else, without acquiring more resources.

 

[DMS]

^Very true, for instance this week I was meeting with our GP, and for 3 days couldn't work out why this new policy wouldn't apply to users logging onto our new XenApp 5.0 farm...spent 3 days p1ssing into the wind. I then queried it with someone and they nailed it down in about 5 minutes, the User loopback processing wasn't enabled.

I've had to do a bit with loopback processing this week.
Had a situation where we have software restriction policies configured under the user configuration of a GPO so that students can only run pre-approved software on college computers.
We had to set up an "exam room" environment where users are only allowed to launch the examination software and nothing else.
The user configuration couldn't be altered because it was applied on the users' OU and would defeat the objective of having it set up in the first place. The logical alternative was to place the exam room computers in a new OU and create a new GPO with its own software restriction policy configured under the computer configuration. Then, when loopback processing is enabled, the software restriction policy always applies to computers in the exam computers OU, irrespective of the SRP configured for the user objects.

 

[The Hoff]

Yeah makes sense, similar really to what we I had to apply to our Citrix farm. Also had to use loopback when I deployed a new power policy to the users machines for standby times, and secure screensavers. Speaking of which was a pain in the arse. XP is severely hamstrung due to the way it stores the data in the registry. There's no .ADM files for it either, leaving two options - EZ_GPO tool, or a start-up script running powercfg commands from a .BAT file on the User templates.

 

[DMS]

I'm an Information Security engineer so I tend to centre around implementing security after our installation engineers have done their stuff. I often have to configure password protected screensavers, the various services associated with ipnat.sys (firewall, RRAS, DHCP relay etc...), domain controller security policies, IPSec policies and so on - all via GP
Spend most of my time configuring firewalls, IDS/IPS' and routers though.
Also tend to configure backups a lot. I don't know why, but for some reason nobody at our place can get their head around the G-F-S rotation system.

 

[dk]

Well I was looking at a Barracuda based system, but I'm also currently researching a GFi Archiving solution - much less expense, and it's primarily to circumvent the continual .PST (hate them) issues we have. We only have about 300 mailboxes, so not a massive outfit.

Sharepoint is something we've decided to forget about for now, we just wouldn't have the time on top of everything else to recreate our network/shares and permissions on top of everything else, without acquiring more resources.

take a look at enterprise vault then, its the most mature product and perfect for 300 users, especially with pst's as the whole philisophy of EV is ingesting the pst's.

 

[Cookie]

Anyone claiming IT hasn't been hit by this recession isn't currently looking for a job

There must be at least 10 times more people trying to apply for the same number of jobs as last summer.

 

[Zygalski]

Deadwood are being ruthlessly got rid of & told they have no work at my gf's IT outsourcing company called Getronics.
Just an excuse to remove the space-wasters (there are a lot in IT Project Management) but trouble is, my gf's having to pick up the slack by taking extra projects from the sacked staff.

I suppose a career in IT is still possible at the moment & there probably are still pockets of regional vacancies, but you'd need a decent CV & willingness to go above & beyond your job role to not be first to get the chop as the recession deepens later this year.