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ICE install, here we go...



  172 Mk2 Ph1


Whats the best way to start to modify the Clio 182 sound system?

I dont want a riduculously loud system, something that can be removed fairly easily that has superb sound quality, but not huge amounts of base to make the car fall to pieces! Im thinking;

1). Reinforced shelf of some sort (not sure where from yet) to hold 2 6x9s and one 8" sub, new midrange at the front to replace existing, although Ive heard these may not need replacing as they are ok. Tweeters - are there existing tweeters, if not wheres best to fit them?

2). Not set on the above, (open to sugestions) but dont know a huge amount about ICE... YET!! Need crossovers or something I think, also will I need an amp to run all of this or will a decent head unit do it/existing head unit, or will it just break.

3). Head unit - going to do the speakers first as I want to get the touch screen mp3/dvd/sat nav system early next year. And still want to be able to use the stalk control - dont know if this is possible.

As i said above I am much more interested in sound quality than ground shaking base, but of course I would still like to turn up the volume on occasion.:D Long trips going skiing in europe...!

Any basic starter guidence appreciated, and I guess ill take it from there, want to do a lot of the work myself, but want the best install possible, no hacking or grinding anything away! Thanks guys.

Alex.
 
  172 Mk2 Ph1


Most helpful;)...


Any particular make better than others? Where could I get the reinforced shelf from?


[Edited by alexst on 05 September 2005 at 12:01am]
 
  172 M69 eater


shelf u can get from motor world, ebay, halfrauds, good ice shops, some bad ice shops...

components speakers are best for fill imo
 


Dnt get 6x9s and a sub for the rear, one or the other.

Else you will have two sources fighting for the same air and it will sound cack.

Just get a bigger sub and stick it in the boot,. or if you dont want amp and sub n th eboot whack some 6x9s in a reinforced shelf (thats what I did as didnt want a sub+amp combo, does the job for my needs).
 
  1.6 16v clio priv


In my clio I have (all sony) mp3 player head unit with 4x50w output. Second battery (to power all the extras) A 1200w amp to power a 1100w sub (soon to be upgraded cause I ordered the wrong one) a 600w amp to power 2 160w 4way speakers for the front and 2 380w 6x9s of course all 4 speakers are running at 150w but they do produce a hell of a sound. Had to redo all my mp3 cds cause the compression spoilt the sound. The sony amps have a built in low/high pass filter and since the speakers are full range there is no need for a crossover. The 600w amp is set to full range and the sub amp is set to low pass.

When I fisrt setup the system I ran out of time fitting it and left the sub for another day. Even without it it had plenty of bass. Don.t get me wrong the sub is really cool but if your worried about space dont bother with the sub.

I dont have a reinforced shelf so when i turn the volume a little above half the shelf vibrates and it sounds awful so a shelf is definately reccomended.

I will warn you that cabling will cost you. My cables and connectors cost around £150 although there are a few extras. If your going for a good quality system to save space and go loud just go for the amp, fronts and 6x9s above.

Oh and by the way if you swap the head unit you will have to take off the whole dashboard to attach the stalk addaptor. Not a hard job but not fun, there are a few fiddly bits.

Ill post full details of my system and pics next time Im on.
 
  Valver


Doesnt sound like you are on too much of a budget, so first things first
Do not buy 6x9s.
Good quality sound cant come from egg shaped speakers.

Go for good quality front speakers, 2-way, stay away from sony they are generally rubbish, infinity/alpine are good, dont go for cheap "high watt" speakers you see on ebay from unknown manufacturers either!

As you dont want too much bass and a SQ system you should be able to go for upgraded tweaters and midrange and an amp. As long as you arent too tight with the green stuff youll end up with a great sounding system!

PS DONT BUY 6X9S!
 
  Disco 5 ,Monaro VXR


ive got a fly £99 quid sub with built in amp and two sets of infinity componets £100 each and a ipod link with an alpine headunit all for about £700 and i get everyone asking what system ive got and nobody believes its that i only spend £700 with about £300 on the headunit and i pod link. my advive though would spend any spare cash on good cabiling as its pointless spending loads on good speakers and then using cheap cabiling
 
  Hondata'd EP3 Type R


Quote: Originally posted by bigmonmulgrew on 05 September 2005
In my clio I have (all sony) mp3 player head unit with 4x50w output. Second battery (to power all the extras) A 1200w amp to power a 1100w sub (soon to be upgraded cause I ordered the wrong one) a 600w amp to power 2 160w 4way speakers for the front and 2 380w 6x9s of course all 4 speakers are running at 150w but they do produce a hell of a sound. Had to redo all my mp3 cds cause the compression spoilt the sound. The sony amps have a built in low/high pass filter and since the speakers are full range there is no need for a crossover. The 600w amp is set to full range and the sub amp is set to low pass.When I fisrt setup the system I ran out of time fitting it and left the sub for another day. Even without it it had plenty of bass. Don.t get me wrong the sub is really cool but if your worried about space dont bother with the sub.I dont have a reinforced shelf so when i turn the volume a little above half the shelf vibrates and it sounds awful so a shelf is definately reccomended.I will warn you that cabling will cost you. My cables and connectors cost around £150 although there are a few extras. If your going for a good quality system to save space and go loud just go for the amp, fronts and 6x9s above. Oh and by the way if you swap the head unit you will have to take off the whole dashboard to attach the stalk addaptor. Not a hard job but not fun, there are a few fiddly bits. Ill post full details of my system and pics next time Im on.



lol i love it when people quote max power wattages,

i bet my system is louder with only 500wrms to one sub :)
 


Hi,

Its hard to advise without knowing your budget, but this is what I would recommend (might be too expensive for you at the moment, but remember the old saying... "you get what you pay for"). You also said you want "superb sound quality", and this does not come cheap. It doesnt matter what *anyone* tells you - its a fact. Good quality gear means good quality sound, and they dont give it away for free.

"I dont want a riduculously loud system"

Thats fair enough, but sound quality is not the opposite of sound volume, which is what some peopel seem to think. I know you can set up for SQ or SPL competitions etc, but thats beside the point. You need the capacity to generate a decent volume. For example, to get the best out of your spekaers, if you buy decent ones, youll need to provide them with a reasonable amount of power to get that coil and cone moving. You also need to overcome wind and road noise if you want to hear all the details in the track.


"something that can be removed fairly easily"

Well thats easy... unless you mean something you can take in and out at will. I assume you mean "something that can be removed easily if I sell the car". Just about any setup that uses 6" splits, a sub and an amp will be fine. you only need to worry if youre doing custom pods etc.

"not huge amounts of base to make the car fall to pieces!"

No, but you should get a decent sub of at least 10" in my opinion, so you have the bass there if you need it.

Like others have said, get a decent set of splits. If you have to use rear speakers, then they should only be fill. Ideally, for the best sound, you should have two sets of identical speakers for front and rear, otherwise they will cause interference with each other making some tones sound louder and some tones quieter. But its sometimes too expensive. I dont have any rear speakers in mine - theyre not really needed. The sound should be coming from the front if you want it to sound realistic. How often to you stand and listen to a gig with your back facing the musicians?! :) Get 6" splits. Theyll fit, maybe with a spacer or a little plastic removal behind the factory speakers. Get splits that have a seperate crossover, and preferably an adjustable one, even if its just adjustable in steps. Some decent splits are diamond, rainbow, focal, boston, dynaudio, ads, hertz, Infinity (for a budget) etc.

Get a sub, and get a decent one. I think 10" is fine. Not too big, and not to small. Get a good box for it. A crappy box is just as bad as a crappy sub. Good brands are Focal, Boston Acoustics, Hertz, JL Audio, higher end alpine, Image Dynamics, Digital Designs, Diamond, Infinity (for budget), etc.

Get a head unit that is of good quality. Get one that has a high signal-to-noise ratio, high voltage outputs (4V+), equaliser of some description, three sets of pre-outs (RCAs). Good brands include Alpine, Blaupunkt, Eclipse, higher end Pioneer etc.

Get an amp if you can afford it. Good speakers will have power requirements that an amp will help to provide. Also, youll get a cleaner sound by using the low-level outputs from teh head unit and taking them to an amp. Good amps include Boston Acoustics, Audison, Zapco, tru tech, etc.

Get good quality wiring. Use decent RCA cables to go from the head unit to the amp and use decent, heavy gauge wire for taking the signal back to the speakers. Dont use that sh*t thin wire or solid-core wire that is supplied with cheaper speakers.

Do a proper install, or have it installed by someone else. The install can make or break a sound system. If youre not sure what youre doing, or youre not willing to learn and invest a decent amount of time into doing it, or if youre not very technically inclined, then pay the little extra and get a *decent* installer to do it. Go to someone who does it for a living, not one of those big chain stores that whips em in in 5 minutes and pushes you out to get the next sucker in.

Having said all that, the most important thing of all is that you get out and listen to the gear. You cant take peoples advice, because youre the one whos going to be listening to it - not them. Go to some decent audio places, that specialise in car audio, and bring your own CDs. If theyre a decent shop, theyll play your CD thru the speakers so you can hear (an approximation) of what they sound like. Theyll be different in the car of course, but its hard to hear them installed. Some companies have demo cars that drive around the different retailers. Often also the company reps that visit the retailers will have the gear in their own cars. You can always ask.

Cheers,

Scott.
 
  172 Mk2 Ph1


Thanks for all the help guys,

Brooky182 "Two sets of infinity components" - does that mean a set for the front and a set for the back? - is the car small enough to use one set throughout?

6" splits are the mid range, arent they, and they replace the original speakers in the driver and passenger doors?

Scott - your saying to get the same speakers for front and rear, i.e. the 6" splits for the front doors, and the same on the reinforced shelf, with a sub in the boot. When you say they should only be fill (rear speakers) do you mean they should be enclosed at the back to help resonate the sound back into the car and not lose it in the boot?

Someone mentioned upgraded tweeters, where are they currently?

Moving on...

P.s going to leave the head unit the same at the moment and sort the speakers, budget of about £500 for speakers I guess. Dont mind getting an amp.






[Edited by alexst on 05 September 2005 at 9:48am]
 


> Scott - your saying to get the same speakers for front and
> rear, i.e. the 6" splits for the front doors, and the same
> on the reinforced shelf, with a sub in the boot. When you
> say they should only be fill (rear speakers) do you mean
> they should be enclosed at the back to help resonate the
> sound back into the car and not lose it in the boot?

No, they dont have to be enclosed. I wouldnt use rears at all. But if you are going to, then for the best results, you should use the same kind. I meant that the front speakers should produce the main sound... the sound should come from the front (well, unless you like the sound coming from behind you for some reason).

As for the location of the tweeters... arent they still under teh dash at the sides, under those little round vents, like in the 172?

If you have a budget of 500 for speakers alone, then Id get Focal K2P splits and an 11" Focal K2 sub.
 


Oh yeah, if youre keeping the factory head unit, then youre going to have to buy an RCA adapter and/or get an amp with high-level (speaker level rather than pre-out level) inputs, and it wont sound as good (still OK, but not as good as it could).

Scott.
 

Ali

  V6, R500, Jeep SRT


Genesis profile 13 components/ Profile 4 amp and a vibe integrated sub...Decent HU too.
 


all you need for a good quality ICE set-up in a clio is

head unit
front components
amp to power comps
single sub
amp to power sub

nothing else is required, i could recommend model numbers and brands, but they would be my personal choice of quality, and everyones tastes in sound are different, easiest method would be go to a decent reputable ice shop and have a listen to their demo stands/cars
 
  172 Mk2 Ph1


Does the sub have to go in the boot as my golf clubs barely fit, is there anywhere esle it can go...?

Bryan - think your spot on, when you say front components you mean front speakers plus tweeters?

Anyone know of a good ICE shop near South london or surrounding areas?

Cheers everyon eyouve been very helpful...
 
  172 Mk2 Ph1


Would you say;

approx;

Head unit - £250/Front Components - £150/Amp to power components - £?/Sigle sub - £150/Amp to power sub - £?/ Cables - £?/Steering Stalk control adaptor - £32/I-pod adapter - £?.

Feel free to fill in the blanks...:D... yep I think this is the way I will go then. Off to see some ICE, yey.
 
  1.6 16v clio priv


What you mean by max power wattages?

And I dont find sony speakers are rubbish. Im not siding with sony in any way but they are definately not rubbish. The sound quality is good. Id like to say great but I havent much to compare them to except my mates alpine speakers (at least IO think theyre alpine) but hes running them off a standard head unit.
 
  172 Mk2 Ph1


How about;

Front component - Genesis Audiophile Midbass 13 Mid range Bass to replace the front speakers (recommended 20-100watt Amp (4 ohm)). Move the front speakers to the back for now - £149.99 (Will these fit in the front or do I need to encourage them i any way?)

Pioneer GM3100T Amp - 2 x 70 watts RMS output (4 Ohms) - £84.99.

Where will the Amp to power the front speakers go, and will I need any more cabling (obviously for the Am I will) or will the existing cabling do it for now(for the speakers)?

Going to start small and build up ;)




[Edited by alexst on 05 September 2005 at 9:40pm]
 
  Valver


Quote: Originally posted by bigmonmulgrew on 05 September 2005
What you mean by max power wattages?And I dont find sony speakers are rubbish. Im not siding with sony in any way but they are definately not rubbish. The sound quality is good. Id like to say great but I havent much to compare them to except my mates alpine speakers (at least IO think theyre alpine) but hes running them off a standard head unit.

The max watt figure is the one usually stuck all over sony xplod subs :p just kidding, but its the maximum power that can be delivered for a split second. Whereas rms is basically the average power the unit can output continuously.
 
  Skoda Fabia vRS


for the front you really should get some components, if possible dont get the cheaper of the 2 Genesis ranges as, purely IMO, they sound very clinical, too precise and lacking a little warmth to the sound, if you like that though then they will sound superb

as Bryan said its hard to recommend brands as different people like different sounds, but you wont go far wrong at all with Genesis, id also consider Phase Evolution/Linear

have a look on Car Audio Direct, and dont bother with 6x9s, make room for the sub in the boot it wont sound right on the shelf at all, and dont buy Sony
 


components are speakers that have seperate tweaters
so a mid and a seperate tweater helps with sound staging

i wouldnt bother with a sub to be honest infact i wouldnt bother changing anything except maybe the head unit as its only a car stereo at the end of the day and not a place to sit and listen to music as a car just isnt suitable for that
 
  172 Mk2 Ph1


Ahh i understand and i assume the 5 1/4/13cm fit right in to the existing space? - Also as I understand it a seperate amp will also be needed? Wehere will that go? The tweeters I assume will replace the existing ones also?

Sorry for all the questions.
 
  172 Mk2 Ph1


Already have a large sterio in the house, i consider this as, lets say, branching out...:D...will prob just get some nice components for now, see how that goes for the time being.

Cheers
 


Quote: Originally posted by alexst on 06 September 2005
Already have a large sterio in the house, i consider this as, lets say, branching out...:D...will prob just get some nice components for now, see how that goes for the time being.Cheers


i would say 150 on components and turn the rear speakers off and see if you really need anything else i wouldnt even change the headunit at first just get some components and power them off the headunit dont amp them
 


The Inifinity Basslink is excellent - sounds superb and very clear (sub and amp built in to one) fairly compact too - ask george16v about these as he has one!
 


I spent £300ish on an alpine headunit and i-pod adaptor. Sounds better already but i am doing the front doors next. Either Focals or JL Audio. A mate has JL Audio all round in his car and it sounds amazing.

Rob
 
  172 Mk2 Ph1


Gonna go with Mcbunny sugestion, get front components, for about £250 run them off the existing head unit and see how that is and take it from there.

What is the RMS output of the existing head unit?
 
  1.6 16v clio priv


Id say if you want to start small and build up . Go for a head unit first. When I first swapped my head unit and was still using the original speakers there was a noticable improvement.

Next change the front speakers, then the rear. Youll notice another big improvement.

Finally a decent amp to power the speakers to their full potential. Oh and you will need the propper cabling if you do get an amp.

You could fit the amp under one of the front seats if its small enough. Might be an idea to add a fan or two if its cramped though. 12v computer fans do the job nicely and come in a range of colours.

You might find depending on your speakers that theres enough bass, but if you really wanna feel it shake get a descent sub and amp. If you build the sub box yourself make sure its the correct volume and size mdf.

Doubt youll be able to fit 2 amps under the seats but try standing them upright either side of the boot or something so they dont take up too much space.

If you fit it yourself dont run the power cables next to the speaker cables if you can help it. It will cause interfearance (or so I hear)
 


get a vibe active sub!

anyway, there is not RCA outputs on the clio head unit, when i did my install i found this out and had to use the high level inputs on a jbl amp for 6*9s and then rcas on to the amp. wasnt the best install iv done so i got rid of it back in october.

If your gettin an amp get a head unit with RCA outs.
 


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