In 5 years time

[harey]

How many 1*2s are going to be left and standard or close to? Seen so many Facebook posts of people breaking them or turning them into track cars lately
You can already see that prices for a decent condition 1*2 have stabilised and they now surely will only go one way.
Looking on how many left numbers have already halved for the 182.

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[T12]

The associated costs of owning/running a 1*2 will continue to increase as the gov push for an electric car future.

I can’t imagine many will be left on the roads for daily use in 5 years time.

I’d guess most will end up as track cars in the end.

 

[DomP182]

Wasn't there even less 172's registered in the uk? I think I'm right in saying 172 cups were by far the most numerous model

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

On a long enough timeline for sure they'll be a sought after car, how could they not be? The Mk2 Clio is an iconic hot hatch.

However, do you want to have a £2k Mk2 Clio parked on your drive for another 5 years while people decide they're worth something? Be better off just investing in an index.

 

[harey]

On a long enough timeline for sure they'll be a sought after car, how could they not be? The Mk2 Clio is an iconic hot hatch.

However, do you want to have a £2k Mk2 Clio parked on your drive for another 5 years while people decide they're worth something? Be better off just investing in an index.

I'm not necessarily talking about an investment but I use mine daily and in 5yrs time it should still have less than 100k miles and a fsh. I can't see me losing much money.
I was more interested in how quickly they are disappearing from our roads and how many are been broken for parts

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[Mr Burns]

I think it's the same old story for most 'once popular' sporty hatchbacks. The more expensive desirable cars will stick around due to their value, but it could be a grim future the high street heroes like the Clio.

 

[ajfinn87]

I was looking at the exact same thing following the ‘first and current hot hatch’ thread, particularly thinking about all of the now gone 5 gt turbos and wondering if 182s would follow the same curve.

I had wanted a hot hatch since owning a cooking AX as a teen, but had to shift which one to get as supplies of decent 5 gt turbos, clio Williams, or 205s dried up and their values increased. Three years ago I sold my mMX5 and bought a 182 as the older hot hatches had either disappeared or were expensive garage queens that would break my heart to drive and abuse on a daily basis. The 182 was the perfect mix, cheap and ticked all the hot hatch boxes

I plan to hold on to my 182 indefinitely and use it as a daily driver as long as possible, but my work is only 2 miles from home and I cycle, and we use my girlfriend’s golf r for longer drives, so I am not as dependent on a car as others may be.

Part of me thinks people are too savvy these days to let all the 1*2s vanish as everyone will hold on to them hoping prices go the same way as 205 gtis, but I suppose the reality of holding onto a rattly old french car which inevitably requires maintenance and occasionally lets you down when you need, verses chopping it in for a comfy, reliable new car will be too tempting for some people and many 1*2s will either disappear, or be shifted into service as 2nd cars / track use.

This will be a sad day as while the 1*2 replaced the mk1 Clio and gt turbo for engaging driving but still practical and cheap, cars of this type just aren’t made anymore (in my opinion of course!) and I can’t think of a car being made today that would tick all the same boxes in 10 years once all the 1*2s are gone.

 

[jameswrx]

Mine’s a standard original car, still on its supplying dealer plates and original paint.

I bought it for my ex years ago from an enthusiast and was owned by a doctor before him (as I have all the old history)

I’ve thought about flogging it but it’s pretty worthless and actually owes me nothing so does me for a little runner to leave places when I go river fishing and wander down stream for miles.

 

[Coops Mk1]

I've got 4 old bangers and 'investment' is never how I've looked at it. Just lucky enough to have space and time for a hobby that means messing about with many old clios

 

[Mr Burns]

I'd rather have the found memories of owning a 172/182/197 brand new or nearly new than buy one now or in the future as an investment. I couldn't get any enjoyment from keeping it tucked away and not driving it properly.

 

[YorkshireKyle]

Not driving your car to keep the miles off is the equivalent of not putting your finger inside your mrs because you want to keep her showroom fresh for the next bloke

Give them some hammer and worry about it later

 

[RustyMojo]

From me they make a nice pass time, mine is never going to be a daily, I have a new, reliable and more comfortable can for that. I bought mine as I couldn’t justify the cost of a 205, this was the closest thing as far as I was concerned. Mine will never be a valuable model it’s a 182 ff in titanium, loss of owners cosmetically and mechanically challenging, with some but hardly comprehensive history! That said that value for me is the enjoyment I get from working on the car. Can’t think of a greater satisfaction in getting it to how I want, them using it as and when I want. The settling thing for me was the limited cost of entry and the abundance of cars being broken making parts cheap (obviously all the ones I need you can’t get it would seem) plus this forum and scene make a compelling proposition. I’m confident that I won’t lose money on my purchase, sure if I added up total spends it will likely ‘cost’ but when I have savings earning nothing in the bank, why not! I can see the 1*2’s steadily rising price wise over the next couple of years, but I can see the days of nostalgic pricing being somewhat numbered...so don’t think we will be sat on Ford or classic Peugeot pricing

 

[Greeny.]

The only cost to increase in 5 years will be road tax surely, which by them will probably be like another £30 if that? The bigger 'issue' will be getting genuine parts I would imagine but as there are third party parts for most things I cant see it being a massive problem.

I can't see how new EV's on the road will really effect older classic hot hatches that much in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Martin_172]

That was the biggest downside to trophy ownership for me, I had a low millage mint one and I enjoy driving them properly so every new stonechip and blowing the baffles out of the mint standard exhaust used to bother me lol

the rough, cheap ones have been the ones I've enjoyed the most, and the van should be no exception to that rule lol

 

[frayz]

Man i hope the investment w*****s don't descend on Clios. Its bad enough the Porsche lot keep banging on about values and what's the best spec for resale blah blah.

Anyone who invests in any automobile for anything other and pure driving enjoyment is clearly missing the point.

 

[harey]

I get that they will never be 205gti money. My question was more about how many will be left in 5 years. I've never seen so many be broken or turned into track cars.
They have a better record than saxo vts and 106 gtis as I can't remember the last time I saw one of those on the road. Neither of those command a hefty premium but you struggle to buy a "good" one now

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[RustyMojo]

I don’t know I was looking for a 106 GTI before buying my clio! Even hammered ones were a lot of money!

 

[jameswrx]

Man i hope the investment w*****s don't descend on Clios. Its bad enough the Porsche lot keep banging on about values and what's the best spec for resale blah blah.

Anyone who invests in any automobile for anything other and pure driving enjoyment is clearly missing the point.

Oh they 100% will.

You’ve got to think of the price of 205’s and r5 GTT’s and compare how much better the 172/182 is compared to either of those.

Whenever people reminisce about old cars saying “I wish I’d bought a” in regards to investing I always say forget what’s passed and look about what you can buy today thats a similar type of car to a cossie, 205, R5, integrale

Also the fact that the clio is already well regarded as a good driving car, there’s a few car journo’s who have them too and there’s definitely even a shift in the last year or so towards proper old school cars rather than the latest boring auto hyper car with an iPad stuck to the dash (snooze fest)

Back in the day I loved R5 GTT’s but my mates would always say what a POS unreliable car they were, they had a bad reputation and yet today they’re valuable.

The only saving grace is there seems to be shed loads of Clios, I guess because they don’t rust too bad & the engines are very strong.

Mind you, I’m not fussed of the price goes up. Only matters if you haven’t got one I guess.

I paid £800 for my first 205 1.9 GTI when it was 8 years old. I remember a friend of mine wanting one and seeking out a mint Miami blue low miler and I thought she was barmy paying £1500 for it about 22 years ago.

I’d love a pearl white R5 GTT but monetarily I wouldn’t value one past my clio yet it’s supposedly what, 10x the price? I’m sure I’d crap myself at the hassle of using one too as the clio is still so reliable.

 

[frayz]

Investment is one thing. But we should be investing in our enjoyment, not speculating on if our bank balance will increase from it.

My car is now touching 124k miles and I’ll continue to drive it and enjoy it. If in 10 years it’s worth £3k or £10k won’t matter. Because I will have used it and enjoyed it.
Even if you bought the best 1*2 in the world for £10k today and had even only 5 years of enjoyment in it, you’d lose more than that buying almost any new car.

The Cayman R guys are up in arms that mine has just clipped 40k. Who cares if it loses £5k, £10k or whatever.

Ill never be on my death bed wishing id driven my Porsche less.

 

[Usr117063]

Ill never be on my death bed wishing id driven my Porsche less

 

[MarcB]

Anyone who invests in any automobile for anything other and pure driving enjoyment is clearly missing the point.

Unless its a Ford Rs

Rs's hold there money and hold there money well and have done for a few years now. There is more and more coming up for sale for serious money and they are selling.

The Ford RS owners are a different bread and kettle of fish and I for one think if you want an investment buy a Ford RS and not a renault.

 

[YorkshireKyle]

Unless its a Ford Rs

Rs's hold there money and hold there money well and have done for a few years now. There is more and more coming up for sale for serious money and they are selling.

The Ford RS owners are a different bread and kettle of fish and I for one think if you want an investment buy a Ford RS and not a renault.

The reason RS's are up in value is because 40-60 year olds that couldn't afford them when they were new can now afford them, bumping the price

Who knows, in 20 years time a Fiesta ST could be worth 15 grand That's if it doesn't turn itself into brown and orange flaky bits

 

[MarcB]

The reason RS's are up in value is because 40-60 year olds that couldn't afford them when they were new can now afford them, bumping the price

Who knows, in 20 years time a Fiesta ST could be worth 15 grand That's if it doesn't turn itself into brown and orange flaky bits

Unless it has an RS Badge it won't go up in value.
Ford have fully stopped the production of the MK3 Focus RS so prices are going to increase more.

ST's are seen as " Im 18 and have a ST on finance" the same slagging the corsa guys used to get.

Its the "RS" badge people want and people will pay £65k for a barn find Sierra

 

[frayz]

Still doesn't make sense to me. You should buy a car to enjoy its driving and ownership experience as a primary function.
If it makes money over time, great, if it doesn't, then its the same as any other car.
If i still owned my Sierra Cossie now, who knows what it would be worth, but id have had a pretty dull time waiting 20 years for it to appreciate and i wouldn't have enjoyed all the other stuff.

I just think its sad that people who buy cars purely to try and make money on them and not drive them is a pretty sad ownership of the car.

 

[MarcB]

We are lucky enough to have the choice of having more than two cars, If I wanted to make money on my cars I would have sold them at there peak.
if people want to make money on cars the Clio is not the one to do it IMO but a Ford RS is.

I have owned the Trophy for 10 years and the RST for 10+ and they are still with me, Been offered money on both them and turned money down.

I use the cars when I can (I had the trophy out today and done 7.9miles & it rained)

Can you see anyone in the Clio scene putting a shell up on ebay and getting money like this with bids or even more money like this on a Kangoo van like this escort van will sell for ?

 

[YorkshireKyle]

Add 30 years to the clio and you might

My dad owned countless MK1 Escorts, MK2 Astras, Cavaliers, Minis, Consuls, Orions. The list is endless. They're ALL worth about 40x what he paid back in the day, it's what happens. I mean he owned an Estate Cavlalier, I dont think I've seen one for sale at all.

I think the thing that has fucked the classic car and 20+ year old car market was the scrappage scheme. If you just look at the cars that were traded in you'd want to blow your f**king brains out. I sent @Louis the full list a while ago and there were 911's, 944's, R19 16v, 5GTT's, Escorts, E30 M3's the lot! That's a contributor to the daft prices nowadays

 

[gez 172]

99p a litre for unleaded as of today! That’s the same price of fuel in 2008 when I had my Ph1 172!

 

[Martin_172]

I don't get the fast ford thing, loads of money for something that being polite, is rubbish!

 

[RustyMojo]

Whilst I am fully in the ‘use it’ camp, I don’t think it’s fair to say people who own garage queens are dull or sad, if they are getting enjoyment out of that aspect of ownership then that’s good enough. Whilst I agree buying a car as an investment is a little sad if it’s just locked away (like some of those barns full of classics) but if someone is keeping a car immaculate and enjoying the ownership then that’s their prerogative I guess, however it may conflict with my own view.

 

[jameswrx]

Regards the Ford RS investment line...

What RS can you buy these days as an investment?

The boat has long sailed on the decent ones and the new models for investment? No chance they’ll be anything like the old stuff! The new focus RS stuff is all the same plastic crap as every other disposable modern car.

A good investment car these days would be an Evo 5/6 or a good classic impreza IMO. My mate hassled me for info on a fun car to enjoy he wouldn’t lose money on a couple of years ago and I told him evo 5 when a nice one was about £8500. The yanks will lap them up soon and people will be moaning about them being big money.

But as Frayz says, really what’s the point! I work on a collection of classic ferraris and Porsche’s and the bloke has theoretically made a fortune on them if he was to sell today (talking 20/30 years of collecting and some very special ferraris) but he’ll never sell and just enjoys them for himself. I reckon they’ll be with him til he dies and one hell of a barn find for someone when he shuffles off. We tried a big push to thin the collection and he managed to sell one race car Ferrari and bought something else.

 

[Daniel]

Still doesn't make sense to me. You should buy a car to enjoy its driving and ownership experience as a primary function.
If it makes money over time, great, if it doesn't, then its the same as any other car.
If i still owned my Sierra Cossie now, who knows what it would be worth, but id have had a pretty dull time waiting 20 years for it to appreciate and i wouldn't have enjoyed all the other stuff.

I just think its sad that people who buy cars purely to try and make money on them and not drive them is a pretty sad ownership of the car.

I own the following cars, they are all in a unit, under lock and key.

S2 Escort RS Turbo
Clio 172 Cup
Volvo 850R
Mk1 Clio 1.8 16v
Fiat Coupe 20vT

Apart from the Mk1 clio (that I owned before, about 10 years ago so doesn’t really count) I’ve never driven Any of them. They were purchased as investments and are serving that purpose rather well tbh!

I have a track car, I have a daily and I have a family car. I don’t need to drive them to get enjoyment, they were bought for a purpose and they are serving that purpose. No different really to a landlord that buys houses for investments (Except I can’t afford to do that )

I don’t get why people get so upset about people that invest in cars. Why does it bother you so much??

 

[YorkshireKyle]

I own the following cars, they are all in a unit, under lock and key.

S2 Escort RS Turbo
Clio 172 Cup
Volvo 850R
Mk1 Clio 1.8 16v
Fiat Coupe 20vT

Apart from the Mk1 clio (that I owned before, about 10 years ago so doesn’t really count) I’ve never driven Any of them. They were purchased as investments and are serving that purpose rather well tbh!

I have a track car, I have a daily and I have a family car. I don’t need to drive them to get enjoyment, they were bought for a purpose and they are serving that purpose. No different really to a landlord that buys houses for investments (Except I can’t afford to do that )

I don’t get why people get so upset about people that invest in cars. Why does it bother you so much??

Please tell me you start the Fiat and 850R to hear the 5 pots at least

5 cars you'll never lose money on though. Unless the world goes to s**t and we start using mud as currency

 

[frayz]

I own the following cars, they are all in a unit, under lock and key.

S2 Escort RS Turbo
Clio 172 Cup
Volvo 850R
Mk1 Clio 1.8 16v
Fiat Coupe 20vT

Apart from the Mk1 clio (that I owned before, about 10 years ago so doesn’t really count) I’ve never driven Any of them. They were purchased as investments and are serving that purpose rather well tbh!

I have a track car, I have a daily and I have a family car. I don’t need to drive them to get enjoyment, they were bought for a purpose and they are serving that purpose. No different really to a landlord that buys houses for investments (Except I can’t afford to do that )

I don’t get why people get so upset about people that invest in cars. Why does it bother you so much??

Probably because I’m an automotive development engineer and see the amount of work that goes into creating these cars to be driven. The hundreds of thousands of man hours to develop performance cars especially is massive.

Buying cars with a sensible head because they’re sought after is absolutely a great thing to do. However, I personally see cars that are hidden away and not used as a waste. Obviously you have a different opinion and that’s fine.
Cars being laid up in a museum after a life of racing, competition or purpose is also different. They have lived, had a life and a purpose and then preserved for others to enjoy for many years to come.
So while we may not agree in this case, I can at least explain quite clearly why I have the opinion that I do.

Property doesn’t get driven and isn’t designed to be, so is not exactly like for like comparison.

 

[Daniel]

Probably because I’m an automotive development engineer and see the amount of work that goes into creating these cars to be driven. The hundreds of thousands of man hours to develop performance cars especially is massive.

Buying cars with a sensible head because they’re sought after is absolutely a great thing to do. However, I personally see cars that are hidden away and not used as a waste. Obviously you have a different opinion and that’s fine.
Cars being laid up in a museum after a life of racing, competition or purpose is also different. They have lived, had a life and a purpose and then preserved for others to enjoy for many years to come.
So while we may not agree in this case, I can at least explain quite clearly why I have the opinion that I do.

Property doesn’t get driven and isn’t designed to be, so is not exactly like for like comparison.

Of course it’s not a like for like comparison, I never said it was.

But I just don’t get why people get so uptight about other people investing in cars.

An RS Turbo is s**t to drive. And if it gets wet it will rot in front of my eyes. As a drivers car, my daily 182’d Kangoo is 10 times better!

 

[harey]

I don't see my car as an investment. I see it as a car which has come to a point where I can still enjoy it and if taken care of it won't depreciate. The amount of cars I see lately being broken or tracked will have the "how many left" number tumbling year on year.
As above any serious car investment would be in a fast Ford. The 205s, Novas and R5gtt are more valuable but I personally wouldn't consider them a decent investment (not for a shorter period anyway)

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[Usr117063]

I see mine as a way to take years off my life, like smoking a bit, but weaving and crashing down the road instead and looking like a t**t doing so

 

[yeecup]

Please tell me you start the Fiat and 850R to hear the 5 pots at least

5 cars you'll never lose money on though. Unless the world goes to s**t and we start using mud as currency

The world has gone to s**t they are all worth about £100 now

 

[MarkCup]

The Ford RS bubble that I lived in for a year and a half is a very strange place.

Over the time that I put 19,000 miles on mine, someone else put 400 miles on his, and I was called out for not being a true enthusiast because I spoke out about the engine being made of cheese.

I had more seat time and driving enjoyment out of my RS than that other guy would in 5 lifetimes!

In my opinion cars are for driving, paintings are for looking at.

 

[Mr Burns]

I think no matter how much money I had, I'd always thrash whatever was on my driveway. If I won the lottery I wouldn't be filling a garage with supercars, I'd probably just buy me and my mate's a bunch of Caterham's to do trackdays in together!

 

[Darren S]

This is a good topic and one that I have thought about a fair bit. Not so much from the investment angle - I'm definitely in the camp that the car is there to be driven - but what's likely to happen over the next several years.

As I've mentioned before - mine is my daily. And I've been the sole owner of it. It's going to be 16-years-old this December but I'm in no rush to get rid. In fact, quite the opposite. Mine has been off the road for several weeks having a s**t-ton of mechanical bits done to it. The plan is in the next few years, to investigate and price up a refresh of the body itself and chassis, including a complete respray.

I'm way past the point of considering it to make any monetary sense. The mechanical side alone probably costing similar to a decent 182 Trophy. It makes even less sense when I originally bought the car for a mere £12.2k all those years ago. But to me it means more than simple numbers. I've been to so many places in that car - had some epic journeys and on the grand scheme of things - without much issue. I could have easily chopped it in for £1k-£1.5k or attempted to use it as a piddly deposit on something newer. Something more modern that will be faster, more comfortable but likely to have had several owners and never really feel as 'mine'.

My car has been good to me over the years and above all - I still really enjoy driving it. With the maelstrom of opinions and knee-jerk buying of hybrids and EVs being at the fore these days, it's great for me to have that sigh of relief and enjoy my N/A, slightly revvy, slightly quick, yet thoroughly enjoyable little hatch.

I really cannot see myself ever getting rid.