Induction kits vs Panel Filters

wrx-172 · Dec 17, 2003

Hello all...

Can anyone tell me what their thoughts are on the above?!

I have spoken to many different companies who all give conflicting info about induction kits and panel filters on the clio 172. On past cars I have always went for induction kits which seem to work ok as long as a decent cold air feed is supplied so not sucking hot air from the engine bay.

However I have been advised with the 172 that the airbox is very similar to modern days forced induction kits like the viper kit.

I have been advised that fitting a decent panel filter will give a similar increase as these kits and the only down side will be that the noise of the induction kit wont be apparent.

What is everyones thoughts/ experiences?

Clio16vPaul · Dec 17, 2003

Id go with panel filters if you want any gain, IK if you like the noise!! Ive got a Pipercross IK on the valver but only cos i like the induction note on full steam ahead.... in the summer it will have the airbox and panel back in.

rich[182] · Dec 18, 2003

In the same boat mate, I wanted the roar you get from open IKs but nearly everyone Ive had advice from has basically said forget using open IKs on the 172, even if you have several really good cold air feed pipes going to the filter, Id also thought about making my own heatshield but couldnt be bothered.

The only people Ive spoken to who gave a thumbs up to open IKs have been BB Performance Tuning who claim they have done many tests and found no probs regarding heat soak other than prolonged time in slow or stationary traffic when youve no air flow to the filter. They tested Greens open induction kit I think.

With either open or closed IKs I think you have to have the fuelling checked to see if its running lean, You may be lucky and it be ok but otherwise you would then need re-mapping etc. If the standard ECU copes with fuelling is on a per car basis so get it checked out.

Im still unsure whether I want to change my ECU and therefore dont want to spend money on a filter only to find out my fuellings crap and need say an R-Sport ECU etc so after weeks of debate I reckon Ill end up getting the ITG replacement panel filter (£38) the Hillpower improved silicon inlet hose (£47) and possibly improve the standard cold air feed pipe to the standard airbox (approx £10)

Im hoping this WONT alter fuelling enough for any probs but will still prob have it checked anyway for peace of mind, but then again Im trying to do mods on a strict budget - you might not be ?

wrx-172 · Dec 18, 2003

Thanks for the info guys...

Think I am def gonna go for filter element replacement and maybe see about improving cold air feed!

After all will save some money so I can get a nice full stainless exhaust!!

gmdh555 · Dec 18, 2003

Just had the following from Hillpower: induction kit, cold air feed from scoop in wheelarch, silicon inlet hose and group N ECU. Cant say it transforms the car but definitely has added "something". The noise takes a bit of getting used to!

CUP80Y · Dec 19, 2003

This is what you should do. IMO

Get a performance panel filter, and fit it. Pull out the pipe going into the side of your air box next to the battery. Get something to hold it there, so its pointing at the hole, but about an inch away, so the pipe can still do its thing, but extra cold air can get in. (I used a clothes peg!!) Feed an extra cold air pipe from the front of the car to this general area (If you want to), and you get an awesome roar just like an induction kit - BOBs your mothers brother. (Its easy to push the pipe back in when it goes into the dealers - so theres no warranty implications)

NB: If you look, the area to the right of the airbox is nicely enclosed away from engine heat once the bonnet is closed, so effectively youre creating a nice little cold air chamber for the engine to feed from. If you go for a lengthy drive, then open the bonnet and touch the air box pipe and that area in general, you will find its cold, whilst the other side of the battery and the engine is bloody hot!!

Ive run my Cup like this for months, the noise is awesome, there is notable power gains - throttle response is better, and 80 - 100+ is quicker. Try it.

MarkCup · Dec 19, 2003

Hmmm...might give this a try when I throw in the R-Sport ECU and ITG panel filter.

Have you done anything else CUP80Y to your or is it all pretty much standard?

jonzink · Dec 19, 2003

I have rsport chip stainless exhaust K-tec cat replacement and BB tunings green airfilter, I have done each mod in stages using a set peace of road and a stop watch there is a 1 second difference to 75mph marker with all mods. The green air filter is better for track use and pulls beter with R-sport chip as it lets car breathe at top of rev range but around town you lose a little low down grunt! As i love reving my car it is definately better than a panel as I have tried a K&N panel filter and is only a little btter than standard. I actually ordered my green filter from Demon tweeks and got it for £64 all in including postage next day with discount from club! My brother also has green filter and BBs exhaust which is a lot better than my powerflow one big mistake but cheap! My chip and sports cat give mine the edge though. My mate chris has a cup with superchip, cost s lot more than RSPORT chip and in his words is not as good! backbox K&N induction kit , again mine is still quicker ive driven both

jon_r · Dec 19, 2003

Your Green Filter was 64 quid. lol. mine was £36 from Demon Tweeks

think you got done.

swelch · Dec 19, 2003

Got mine from demon tweaks too (same price). Now fitted the Hill Power Air intake pipe and the green filter has started to perform very nicely now. More torque without a doubt. 2nd & 3rd much different.

lew172 · Dec 19, 2003

My 172 has a pipercross IK inside original air box, which helps keep it colder

Took out headlight removed unwanted plastic from in front of air feed pipes extended one pipe directly into cold air feed in bumper.

The second cold air pipe was extended with pipe down behind fog light and horn into hole cut in plastic tray under car

Ive fitted a laguna splitter and pipe exits behind opening

only done this this afternoon so dont know yet if it makes much difference yet but it cant make it any worse

cliotuRS · Dec 20, 2003

so as far as panel filters are concerned for the MKII172 going with Green Filter is a defo?

CUP80Y · Dec 20, 2003

Not-For-Long - The car is standard apart from this mod. The cold air affects it so much which is another reason I reckon this mod works, as if I put the pipe back in and run it normally the difference is not as great.

rich[182] · Dec 20, 2003

CUP80Y - Sounds like a top idea - May try that myself.

CUP80Y · Dec 21, 2003

Yeah give it a go.

When you pull out the pipe, it is quite stiff, but pull hard - you wont break it. Theres a little nodule of plastic on the pipe at the top that holds it in.

Apparently that pipe leads to a reservoir that stores cold air for the engine to draw on when pulling away, ive never noticed any difference in pulling away or any problems, except that its more responsive!!

rich[182] · Dec 21, 2003

Found the pipe to the airbox - The bit that connects to the airbox is plastix and after approx 2" theres another slightly bigger diameter pipe that connects onto the plastic (its not smooth plastic but like a rough cloth type surface) Question - Is it the plastic pipe that you remove from the airbox or the cloth covered pipe from the plastic pipe ?

Also noticed a pipe thats open ended sitting to the front right corner of the airbox but cant follow where it leads or what its for - Doesnt seems to have owt to do with airbox but just wondered ??

ps Cant find the other end of the normal cold air feed pipe either (ie the one Im gonna remove from airbox) Where does it end up ?

Where did you get your extra feed pipe from ?

Cheers

rich[182] · Dec 22, 2003

CUP80Y - Can you confirm above ? Cheers - rich

CUP80Y · Dec 23, 2003

Sorry Rich - not been on here for a couple of days.

The pipe Ive removed - Im asssuming its the same on a 172 as it is a Cup - is the large diameter one going into the side of the airbox on the right, just to the left of the battery. It is made of plastic as it enters the box, and yes it has got a cloth type material, ( which I assume is because it allows it to bend ) extending from the initial plastic pipe.

Remove the pipe (plastic part) from the hole in the side of the airbox, dont try and split the rough textured part from the plastic, its probably bonded on!!!!

You will need to pull very hard, but dont worry it wont break - trust me - youll see why when you get it apart as there is just a small plastic nodule holding it in. It needs a bit of wiggling about as well to get it clear of the edge of the battery.

Dan 172 Sport · Dec 23, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by CUP80Y on 23 December 2003

Sorry Rich - not been on here for a couple of days.

The pipe Ive removed - Im asssuming its the same on a 172 as it is a Cup - is the large diameter one going into the side of the airbox on the right, just to the left of the battery. It is made of plastic as it enters the box, and yes it has got a cloth type material, ( which I assume is because it allows it to bend ) extending from the initial plastic pipe.

Remove the pipe (plastic part) from the hole in the side of the airbox, dont try and split the rough textured part from the plastic, its probably bonded on!!!!

You will need to pull very hard, but dont worry it wont break - trust me - youll see why when you get it apart as there is just a small plastic nodule holding it in. It needs a bit of wiggling about as well to get it clear of the edge of the battery.

I have tried this today and cant believe the noise difference. Cant wait to get some exra ducting to it with new panel filter. With the difference in sound, sure makes it feel quicker, sure it isnt tho!

CUP80Y · Dec 23, 2003

Dan 172 - I bet if you really cane it up to a ton youll notice after sort of 85mph it moves quicker than it did before. I think the mod is just like drilling your airbox but with the added benefit of it being able to suck on cold air due to its location (shielded by the airbox itself from engine heat) I reckon it makes the car more responsive, and probably gives it more torque at the higher end judging by how it feels.

rich[182] · Dec 23, 2003

Cheers - Ill give it a try to check the noise - Not replacing the panel filter yet or getting the Hillpower pipe or the 2nd cold feed but will remove pipe & go for a quick blast - From what Dan 172 Sport & you have said I reckon itll be enough to help make me decide.

CUP80Y · Dec 23, 2003

Yeah nice one, I reckon it works better than an open type induction kit that sucks in lots of hot air. As I said ive run it like this for thousands of miles with no probs.

Dan 172 Sport · Dec 24, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by CUP80Y on 23 December 2003

Dan 172 - I bet if you really cane it up to a ton youll notice after sort of 85mph it moves quicker than it did before. I think the mod is just like drilling your airbox but with the added benefit of it being able to suck on cold air due to its location (shielded by the airbox itself from engine heat) I reckon it makes the car more responsive, and probably gives it more torque at the higher end judging by how it feels.

Yeah, your right!

Been out this morning a little! Seemed to be able to spin the wheels in second gear. This did not happen before (much)! I dont think that there was any fluids spilt on the roads either (making it slippy)!

I expect the ECU will have had to adjust to the new airflow (wihtin its parameters)?

In two minds whether or not to stay sober and use the roads whilst they are quiet!

Have a good one!

t_sheen · Dec 24, 2003

So what have you done? just removed the pipe going into the standard airbox?

Dan 172 Sport · Dec 24, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by t_sheen on 24 December 2003

So what have you done? just removed the pipe going into the standard airbox?

Sounds a fit daft and simple, but yeah, removed the oval shaped connection to the air box. Not really removed tho, just split the connection leaving the pipe near to its original position. It must enable better breathing, less restrictive!?

t_sheen · Dec 24, 2003

But havent you now got more chance of it sucking in hot air from the eingine thus slowing it down?

CUP80Y · Dec 24, 2003

T_sheen - Theres a lot less chance than if youd got an open type induction kit bolted on!! The area the pipe opens up into is very shielded from the engine by the airbox itself. And if you drive for a while to get the engine hot and then open your bonnet and touch that pipe on the side of the airbox - youll find its cold whereas the area the other side of the airbox is very hot.

t_sheen · Dec 24, 2003

I think i might try this! i have no mods at all at the mo so dont know what it will be like with standard paper filter?

CUP80Y · Dec 24, 2003

You will get as good a roar as with a performance panel filter, and you will notice performance gains. The cold air feed pipe and perf filter will just enhance these things.

wrx-172 · Dec 24, 2003

What is website address to order the hill power pip going from airbox to engine?

si_cup · Dec 24, 2003

CUP80Y Genius!! I had a MK1 Golf Gti that i did a similar thing to, and it worked a treat! Id completley forgotten to try this, will definatley be giving it a go!

Helios · Dec 25, 2003

last week I have tried both of my induction kits on test bench. First I tried my K&N 57i kit and I had got 173,5 bhp on flywheel 205 Nm torque later on I tried with viper kit VFC188 and I had got 178,7 bhp on flywheel and 220 Nm torque result was amazing. But I think fuel cons. increased a bit I am not sure may be cause of lean mixture still I am evaluating it.

monkeymagic · Dec 26, 2003

you can see the replacement air intake hose at

http://www.hillpower.co.uk/newclio172.html http://www.hillpower.co.uk/newclio172.html

I think you need to email Nick to order.

Helios · Dec 28, 2003

This weekend I evaluated my fuel cons. highway was 7,6 ltrs./100 km. urban was 8,6 ltrs./100 km. before everything was quite perfect for power and now quite perfect for cons. too with my viper.

rich[182] · Dec 28, 2003

CUP80Y

Had temp removed the said pipe this weekend, Car did feel more responsive and esp in 3rd/4th after the run I popped bonnet & everything arround the opening to the std airbox was cool, As for the noise it did seem louder above 4000 rpm, I dont know what an open IK sounds like but the noise I get from removing the pipe does sound deeper and louder than with it plugged in - For a 2 min job that costs £0 its a must

Noticed that at the far right side of the front plastic grille their is a kinda alloy deflector plate which directs the airflow to the general area in front of the battery - Just need to get 1 (or possibly 2) additional feeds to the hole now (looks like 50mm dia max each) ITG panel filter & hillpower pipe

Cheers

CUP80Y · Dec 29, 2003

Nice one rich172 - glad you tried it.

When you put your extra pipe in remember it only needs to go in loosely, as the gap needs to be there to create the added induction noise.

Ive heard an open IK on a Clio and they are very loud, this way you enhance the sound rather than it being very noisy, and you dont suck in lots of hot air - which saps power!!! And all for diddly.

Happy blatting.

si_cup · Jan 1, 2004

Its got to be the best free mod ever. CUP80Y i owe you a pint! It didnt feel as instantly responsive, but once it gets going its definately quicker between 6-7K. Its worth it for the grin factor alone! Cant wait to see what its like with panel filter + hillpower pipe and group N ecu!

CUP80Y · Jan 1, 2004

With the ECU as well it will be a flyer!!! The ITG panel filter is good IMO.

swelch · Jan 2, 2004

I was thinking of removing my standard air box to bond Tin foil to the engine side of it to reflect the heat away from the the air box when fe fitted.

Any thoughts on this ? surely it must reduce the air temp inside the airbox.

rich[182] · Jan 2, 2004

Sounds a good idea, On the basis that black absorbs heat, not sure how easy itd be to do - also knew someone who bought some exhaust mainifold heat wrap and covered his entire manifold on an escort rs turbo, he had a temp sensor installed and the heat drop under the bonnet was remarkable

Might have a go with your suggestion when I carry out my induction work soon

Induction kits vs Panel Filters

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