Inner Tie Rods - Garage fail!

[Skeeter]

I've dropped my car in for replacement inner tie rods, and they have just phoned me up to say that the parts they have are incorrect.

But...

They have cut the old ones out already so my car is off the road as the parts cannot be delivered until Tuesday!

However, having spoken to them, I'm not convinced they are changing the right bits? Are the inner tie rods specific to the different steering racks in the Clios (as the parts they have are for the steering rack I don't have)? And what would they have had to cut to get the out? I thought the unscrewed both ends?

Apparently there was no way for the to know which rack I had until they took it apart, and the only way to get the old one out is to cut it. Are both of those statements correct?

 

[Tunst]

There is a choice with them iirc... A mate of mine had trouble getting the correct ones!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Im a little confused as to what they would need to cut?

Ive changed plenty of inner track rods and never needed to cut anything.

Maybe they didnt have a proper track rod tool that slides right down it and didnt want to mess around with a spanner so chopped it off close to the big nut so they could get a socket on it? Thats proper nasty though and how are they going to do the new one up if doing it like that? lol


TBH your best bet is just to buy from renault (adam on here at wolverhampton renault does decent discount and posts stuff out) as at least you will get the right ones then.

 

[Skeeter]

Its a bit late now. My car is in bits at the garage so I can't move it anywhere else. They have ordered the other parts from Renault to be there on Tuesday, but had the cheek to suggest I had to pay to borrow their spare car!

They said they cut the steering arm, which sounds like they have just gone for the easy chop it off and undo it option rather than using the proper tool.

Its the argument they are pulling that they couldn't have possibly known if the part was right without cutting and removing the old one is the main issue I have. Firstly that they couldn't have known (if in doubt, order both type of part, surely?), and secondly that the only way to remove it is to cut it.

I'm not pleased.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Dont know why if you are in Surrey you didnt just take it to Mike/James at S&MWM tbh mate, but like you say, too late now.

Fingers crossed they get it right in the end.

Its 40 quid for the right tool, not exactly a big investment!

 

[Skeeter]

Car availability. I'm busy at work at the moment meaning I can't get to a garage as I work longer than most are open.

These guys have a Hunter alignment machine and are only 10 minutes down the road, and as I have a free Saturday I figured it would all be rosey, lol.

I'm going to challenge them on why they had to cut it if your certain it can be done without cutting anything. They have just gone for the easy route.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cant say for certain they didnt have to cut it, I guess its possible that the track rod end was so rotten onto it that it couldnt be undone but Ive never personally seen one I couldnt get apart gracefully, and if your tracking has been adjusted at all in the last couple of years that certainly wouldnt be the case then.

 

[Skeeter]

I had full alignment done at K Tec atg the start of the year and there was no mention of anything being seized.

To be honest, if they just admitted that they don't bother with the tool when removing them as its quicker to just cut them as they are going in the bin anyway that would be fair enough. But if you are going to do that, make sure you have the right replacement parts before starting.

 

[MG cup]

To me it sounds as simple as track rods were seized so they cut them off, removed the inners to find its the different type rack (there are two) which I would bet your rack is the type that's on the minority and here you are.

Although annoying.... s**t happens, not like they have crashed your car or blew up your engine.

 

[Skeeter]

Yeah thats fair enough. But they are claiming they had no possible way of knowing which rack I had until they removed the old parts, and that the only way to remove the old parts was to cut them. Both statements I don't fully trust.

To then say I need to pay £25 a day to borrow their Saxo for 4 days while they wait for the parts to turn up is just taking the piss.

They made a mistake, fair enough, but they seem to be trying to absolve themselves from any responsibility and make me pay more too.

 

[Simon@SprayShack]

There *should* according to renault be a sticker on the back of the rack, the alternative type are special order (i was told), typically when i did mine i ordered the common ones and mine was the longer ones like yours. As stated above they should have used a specific tool, but you should be able to get the alternatives fairly quickly, in the end i went for high quality none renault, which 2bh were great parts, so id try your local motor factors for equivalents as they were half the price atleast for me.

*They should have checked the parts first mind!, school boy error.

 

[MG cup]

Its a s**t one but iirc the rack only has a sticker as said which is its only differing feature so when that's gone its hard to tell, they weren't lying in that sense, its just the thread size on the rack fixing that's different and the overall length in some models but that would have been fine with you having the most common ph2 172 (all the same length)

They shouldn't be asking money for there courtesy car mind you, just go down there, hope its busy and start throwing your toys about I'm sure the car will be free to get you out of there lol.

 

[barnesautos]

I know it's no conciliation - but when I ordered my inner track arms from Renault it 3 attempts to get the right parts and that was quoting rack type off the sticker.
Mine was off road at the time so no worry - but it still must be frustrating for you as you need your motor back on the road ASAP .
Will regards to charging you for the hire car - that's just wrong , I take it you won't be going back once they sort it .

 

[Skeeter]

Just got back.

They, understandably, assumed Renault sent the right parts. The joints on the outer end of the tie rods were rather corroded so they decided to cut them rather than faff about trying to get them off if they are only going to throw them in the bin, which I can understand.

They have spoken to Renault and using my VIN number and Reg confirmed the correct parts which should be sent out for Tuesday.

Spoke to the manager who explained that charging for a loan car is standard, and thats why the spanner monkey who phoned me said I would have to pay. He was quick to correct him and said I could have one for free. It was a complete s*** tip Saxo though, so I explained that I have 250 miles of commuting to do Monday and Tuesday, and got shifted to the Golf. Its a s*** tip Golf too, but better than the Saxo.

My concern now is that the guy kept mentioning about how they would have to re-estimate the price based on the additional work and the different parts, which sounds like an excuse to charge me what he thinks he can get away with tbh. They have done no extra work (they got to the point of fitting the new parts and stopped, nothing more), and I can't imagine the parts are wildly different. I'm going to get some prices from someone on here to check what I should expect to see.

Overall a massive ball ache. Why is it the garages with the best alignment kit are always the ones manned by the most monkey-ish of the spaner monkeies?

 

[Fred@BTM]

by the way the inner tie rods from renault are too long for the 172 and need cutting down, they only offer the longer cup ones but cross over to the 172! They fit fine, but they bottom out in the track rod end when doing the alignment and hence you'll run with too much toe in and f**k the tyres

 

[Skeeter]

Really? Jesus, how am I going to explain that to the garage?!

Where can I get a list of standard settings for the alignment to compare to what they set so I can see any glaring mistakes?

 

[Simon@SprayShack]

Well when they do your alignment, wont they see this? i assume it wont be in the green Fred?

 

[Skeeter]

This being a garage who didn't see they had the wrong parts before they took an angle grinder to the old ones?! Lol.

I have zero confidence in them doing anything correctly tbh. The only reason my car is still there is because with the wheels not attached to the steering its not an easy job to take it elsewhere

 

[Simon@SprayShack]

This being a garage who didn't see they had the wrong parts before they took an angle grinder to the old ones?! Lol.

I have zero confidence in them doing anything correctly tbh. The only reason my car is still there is because with the wheels not attached to the steering its not an easy job to take it elsewhere

Ask for the print out if its not green dont accept it

 

[Fred@BTM]

i don't get it, all they needed to do was get a pair of track rod ends from euro car parts/gsf etc, you can even get after market inner rods from them aswell?? Its a 1hour job tops, sounds like they can't be bothered

 

[Skeeter]

Issue was found at 10am, garage shuts at mid day. So the earliest anything could happen is Monday.

It was meant to be a simple 1 hour job, but once the old rods were in 2 bits and the new ones didn't screw into the rack they realized they were stuffed.

Is the longer rods issue going to be enough to force the alignment printout to be red?

 

[Fred@BTM]

could be yes, we cut about 20mm off the ends of the new rods, if they compare the length of the old ones with the new ones they'll see the difference in length!

 

[Skeeter]

The old ones are in the bin in 2 pieces

 

[Fred@BTM]

give me an hour or 2 and i'll tell you the correct overall length

 

[03ejames]

Oh dear - doesn't sound like you're having much luck! I'm glad I read up about the different inner rods before I got quotes. When I went to my local garage, they had no idea what I was on about so I didn't feel confident leaving my car in their hands! Instead, I found a place on the internet. Its called Two Techs and its in Dartford, Kent. The two guys there were mechanics for Renault for 18 and 21 years or something, and even over the phone they gave me so much confidence because it was clear they knew their stuff. So I booked my car in for its inner track rods, outer track rods, a new wheel bearing, and tracking. I drove over there a couple of days later, and it was all done in a few hours. They even do a drop off service to Bluewater - the local shopping centre. They dropped me there in the morning and picked me up once my car was done. Also, they give 10% discount to members of this forum The service was excellent, the guys were really nice, and I'm totally happy with the price and the work they have done. I'd definitely recommend. I'm planning on using them for services/MOT etc. too. http://www.twotechs.co.uk/. Good luck with yours - I hope they get the right parts fitted correctly and you don't have any more trouble!

 

[Skeeter]

I was aware of the 2 different racks, but nievely assumed somewhere with "Renault Specialist" stickers in the window would order the right parts. I'd have expected Renault to send the right parts too. Clearly both assumptions were flawed.

Preparing for the worst, what's the best non Renault tie rod manufacturer, should I have to order the parts myself from ECP or somewhere?

Also, do the track rods come with ends too? Or are they seperate? I have a horrible feeling that the track rod ends have made their way to the bin too meaning they will be short a couple of parts when they come to fit the new rods.

 

[Tony Hunter]

What a fkn performance.

 

[barnesautos]

No they don't come with track rod ends , I think a couple of types there also .

 

[Skeeter]

Could be an interesting conversation later today then...

Can a Hunter alignment machine printout be easily transfered electronically so they can email it to me?

 

[GrahamS]

Could be an interesting conversation later today then...

Can a Hunter alignment machine printout be easily transfered electronically so they can email it to me?

Usually garages take a photo and send it over

 

[Stu172cup]

I still dont understand why they took an angle grinder to it. Sound like a load more messing even if they were siezed


But tyen again I am slighly paranoid ill set fire the something or slice something.

Or even worse get sparks on my toolbox

 

[Skeeter]

Speed/Lazyness. They said that as they were just going to throw it in the bin anyway they just cut the tie rod in the middle, rather than bothering to try and remove the tie rod end. TBH I can see their thinking, and there wouldn't be any issue had they got the right parts to replace it with.

I imagine with a decent mini cutter it would have taken 3 seconds to cut the rod, rather than 10 minutes battling with a seized tie rod end nut. But saving that 10 minutes has cost me 4 days (so far).

 

[Matt@codered]

Good old 'time based bonus schemes'.

 

[Cup_Phil]

What a load of s**t

I ordered mine for under £30 from GSF, they came next day and it took me under an hour to swap them even without the special tool.
They didn't check the new parts were right before butchering your car - and now they're saying they have to re-evaluate the labour because of new parts?

They all just fecking screw on - regardless of if it's a cup or a dci.
I predict you're gonna get your pants properly pulled down

 

[Skeeter]

They are different threads between the SMI and TRW rack.

There is no additional labour, and the SMI and TRW rods are similarly priced from what I can tell. So the estimated price shouldn't change.

The only way they could try is to realise they need track rod ends too after throwing mine away, but as I never asked them to replace them and they threw them away off their own back then I will fight that.

It says something about the motor industry in this country when the best way to ensure a proper job is to.... do it yourself .

 

[Fred@BTM]

If they knew these cars they'd know that all RHD 172/182's are SMI racks, LHD are TRW

 

[Skeeter]

That fault lies with Renault. They gave Renault the car details, Renault shipped out the wrong parts.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Renault should really know that too to be fair! Why they even list TRW as an option i have no idea!! The common sense thing to do for the parts guy would be to order both and then send back the wrong ones - muppet

 

[Skeeter]

I had that exact conversation with them, but they seemed oblivious to the 172 having 2 steering rack options. They didn't know, Renault never told them, they just asked for parts and they turned up. Makes me fairly certain they won't have any idea about having to cut down the rods either.

The whole idea of going to a garage was it would be an hours work, I can get laser alignment done, codes read for other issues, and job jobbed. Doing it myself would have been a pain. But now I'm seriously regretting it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

These cars have so many peculiar little things like this, its why it makes sense using a specialist who is used to them.