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Integra Type R
- Thread starter Magnet
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Renault Laguna Coupe
Top Gear did a road test ITR vs 172 vs Racing Puma. It included a track session. The Clio came out on top. You can get a reprint if you search around a bit.
The Teggy R is so much better, the handling is well just out of the 172s league, maybe driven on its own by a pro who can handle the 172s "lively" tendancies and on an empty track it could just about keep up the the Integra. But put it in the hands of a non pro racer and on a normal road the Integra would wipe the floor with the 172.
See this comment from another 172er who regulary tracks his motor....
http://www.renaultclio172.net/trackdays/brands_hatch_200602.htmlhttp://www.renaultclio172.net/trackdays/brands_hatch_200602.html
Big Bash,
Why dont you get rid of your Clio, youre obviously no fan of the Clio as the majority of your posts seem to be negative with regards to the Clio. Put yourself out of misery and let someone else enjoy your Clio.
If you read read the topgear review, youll find its the Integra that trying to keep up with the Clio.
You are such a child tomboy. My opinion (and a hell of a lot of other peoples)is the Integra and Civic type Rs are far better cars than the 172 in the overall handling and performance department, but Im not suree how does that make the 172 rubbish.
I now spend far more time on the Peugeot GTI forums as most of them actually know what theyre talking about. If you asked anyone of the Peugeot forum what their next purchase would be it wouldnt be a Peugeot or a Renault but a Type R be it an Integra or a Civic. Youll also find far more Type R driver frequenting the Peugeot forums than this one, I wonder why?
Astra 1.9cdti XP
BIG BASH
The way you go on Im starting to think you dont own (or ever have) a 172 and that your a 106 owner simply here to knock the 172.
If you dont like the 172 or have no interest in it and have no contructive comments here then whats the point???
Geordie - I think BB had a 172, as someone else on here is just about to buy it.
BB - I doubt that you often pull out the red cloth in front of the bull on the Pug forums as you do here. As right as your opinions may seem to you, youll obviously get a reaction for saying a Clio is not the best at Cliosport. Thats what Id expect anywhere else too about any other car. Its a free conuntry and a free forum - you can say more or less what you like. But for the sake of politeness Id recommend that you just enjoy whatever attracts you here - and be tactful about Clios.
Well if I posted a question (as above) 106GTI/206GTI/306GTI V Integra/Civic Type R on the Peugeot forum theyd all laugh if anyone said the pugs would be better, but in this forum practically the lot of you say your beloved 172s are better.
Dont understand why its red rag to a bull, question was asked and someone with knowledge and OWNERSHIP off all cars gives an opinon of cars theyve owned not what theyve read in some magazine like most in this forum. Ive not said the 172 is sh1t or rubbish, just the type rs are better cars in the handling/performance category, thats it.....
Yes, I do have a 172, although Its being sold to _KDF on this forum, so yes I do know what Im talking about geordieboy
Audi TT Stronic
Quote: Originally posted by geordiepaul on 26 November 2002
BIG BASH
The way you go on Im starting to think you dont own (or ever have) a 172 and that your a 106 owner simply here to knock the 172.
If you dont like the 172 or have no interest in it and have no contructive comments here then whats the point???
I really hope he does have a 172 cause as Big Bash said, I am buying it on the 4th
I think theres a distinct smell of something in the air. I feel fairly qualified to answer the query, as I have a Cup now, and used to have an ITR until about half a year ago. Did 26k in the ITR, and used it on track as well as on road. Used the AP22 accelerometer on both cars on the same road.
The ITR is very, very good. Driving position and gear box are superb, engine, chassis, suspension likewise. A very good package. The Clio has a worse driving position and gear change, but, and I say this with no hesitation whatsoever, it is just as fast around the track as the ITR was, and there is not much in it in a straight line. The Cup clocked 6.64 seconds 0-60, and the ITR 6.67. 30-70 times were identical at 5.9 seconds.
I have to admit I was somewhat unconvinced after buying the CUP as it is more unruly on road than the ITR( which is more balanced ), but once out on track the CUP is a fantastically adjustable, accelerative tool with brilliant brakes. I cannot comment on the standard 172 much as I havent driven it on track, but it is more sorted on road than the CUP. Horses for courses, I guess.
The CTR is a different, have only driven it on road, and again was impressed. It is not as focused as the ITR, and not quite as adjustable either, but very fast, grippy and easy to drive.
Good cars all of them.
Loved the Integra type R, some one said it was pure and it was, its a coupe so it was race bred.
Strongly Disagree with the comments about CTR. Drove an ST170 at an event and then right after got in the CTR. It is not in the least bit entertaining to drive other than in a straight line, suffers alot when cornering, indeed John Barker of Autocar said the 2.0 litre focus zetec was a better drivers car, and i worship this mans opinion,and in all honesty i agree with him.
I think most people see it spiritually as a better motor cos it has the magic 100 bhp per litre, but I found the CTR hard work. I certainly like the 306 GTI6 better, thats just a demon all round.
Anyway Big Bash, I do agree if you can find a good priced ITR (remember there were about 20k new and resale is solid) you will have an original thoroughbred motor, they go like stink, they are as cheap as Renaults to fix but infinitely more reliable. They have different service intervals, 8000 miles compared to other Hondas, about £160 quid with a 70 point check. Major belt service at 80k lookin about 350-400 notes. All this info from a mate who works at Peter Brooks Honda Sheffield. Is that a bit more objective?
Mr Bash,
Remember you are basing your opinions on a Clio you own that has, it seems, handling problems problems unlike anyone else here, eg, pulling to the left on tight bends offering no grip in the dry, understeering badly and having excessive torque steer and therefore it seems you have a duff car as previous posts have pointed out. (_KDF are you sure you want to buy it?).
Indeed others who have themselve moved from a Peugeot 106 to a Clio172 do not experience the problems youve been having and have commented that the Clio has higher cornering speeds for example.
Therefore your views regarding the handling/performance of all Clio as being inferior to any other car holds little water. However, we cannot stop you tarring all Clios with similar handling to your Clio no matter how untrue/true, but it is in my opinion that the Integra would have wiped the floor with *YOUR* Clio.
Having said that, I would be interested to hear on how the Integras handling/performance compared with the 106 GTI, assuming that neither cars were duff during your ownership.
Ive got an idea guys! Lets go on to the afore mentioned boards, sl*g off the 106 GTi constantly, then ask a valid question! Im sure theyd be more than willing to answer any of our questions!!
Really mate, if all your going to do is sit on these boards and wait for a slightly contentious thread, where youre only contribution is to put the clio down, then I think Id speak for everyone here.
GO AWAY BOYO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do however concede that the ITR is a more focused handling car. However how the CTR????
BigBash
Ever thought that maybe you just dont get on with the way the clio handles? Maybe theres nothing wrong with it at all (I fope so for _KDFs sake!) and its simply that different people like cars that handle differently (oversteer/understeer/reactive/dull). Ive had my Mk1 172 for over two years and Ive still not found its limits - sure the back end c***s up a wheel and everything gets a little mobile at the rear end sometimes, but thats how I like my cars...
Incidentally, when I was on track at Donnington I was able to keep up with an S1 Elise throughout the entire lap (twisties and straights) and there was very little in it between either car (and yes he was trying!) - he let me pass him on a straight, then tried to keep up with me for a lap (which he managed to do
). Im not saying that the Clio is better than car X, but what I am saying is that I was able to comfortably stay with a car renowned for its handling abilities on track when we were both going for it! That doesnt sound like the Clio has handling problems to me! Ask anyone else who went to Donnington (Telford_Mike and Matt-Leics) and theyll tell you just the same - the only cars that went past us were the ones that were much more powerful/track oriented!In the end, I suspect that the 106GTi/Saxo VTS can indeed out-handle a Clio 172 - but its only going to be by marginal amounts - the extra grunt of the 172 means that the moment you hit a straight itll go va-va-voom and away!
(All in my opinion of course)
Matt
I have to say I agree with JonC, Tom, Geordie, Teady and Matt on this one - it really isnt fair to come on a Clio forum and sl*g them off everytime you mention them - and it isnt just this thread that I am referrring to with regards to Big Bash sl*gging off Clios - as far as I can see he/she has done it everytime on here - please expect an adverse reaction from those of us who are clearly Clio fans if you insist on sl*gging it off all the time. If you dont like the adverse reaction you get, then dont post - it is not fair to expect people who dont like what you say merely to "not read it" that doesnt work on forums when the threads are posted to be read.
...hmmm... just been reading the TopGear review of 172Mk1 vs Ford Racing Puma vs Integra TypeR (http://www.cliosport.net/articles/RenaultClio172.pdfhttp://www.cliosport.net/articles/RenaultClio172.pdf). Makes interesting reading for anyone who thinks the Integra will destroy the 172 on either road or track...
Matt
Ive raced integra type Rs a few times. If you want the real out come it goes like this: he couldnt pull away from me at all, in fact he decided to overtake a load of people dangerously on the wrong side of the road, wrong side of some bollards and i decided that he was actually a nutter and left him to it in one instance. I had another grand prix with another white one and it was even stevens, the driver gave me a thumb up and flashing etc etc. The Integra Type R weighs more than my clio 172 and has less torque 130 lb/ft as apposed to 148 in mine. Not everyone on the road is a racing driver, so its mostly down to - you as a driver - and each other cars improvement over the other is blurred in the real world. But put Tiff needell and Tiff Needel in a clio 172 and a ITR then the ITR would probably lap faster(?) but who knows? Top Gear rated the Clio over the ITR..........
I was thinking of buying one a few months back, but decided that paying more insurance and having less torque it wasnt worth it. Amazing cars and much better build quality tho. But if im going to be paying the same price i paid for my car new for a second hand V-reg for example, its going to have to be a lot faster than that.
And _KDF - why are you buying a car that you know has problems with it? (that is if youre not a made up person)
Oh my god you guys are so protective of your 172, cant you take a bit of constructive critcism.
Ill say it for about the tenth time I havent said the Clio is sh1te, I actually like most things about the car like the raw speed, comfort and looks. The problem is that I just dont believe in its standard setup (the MK2 172, not the cup....) is a bit of a handfull, more than my 106 GTI. Yes for some this is all part of the thrill of the 172, but for me I want that feeling that my 106 GTI gives me. Yes on a straight and decent surfaced road the Clio would be quicker than the 106 GTI, yes in the wet its better (but pushing your car in these conditions isnt advised), yes its more comfortable. BUT I just dont believe it handles as assuring as the 106 does when throwing it around roundabouts etc, thats all my point is and ever has been, final.
I buy my cars for this kind of driving as I live down south where we get roundabouts everywhere. This makes the 106 GTI more appealing, if I was driving up and down motorways everyday Id probably keep the 172 as it is a better motorway car than the 106, but I dont, so whats the point of keeping it, Id rather have a bit more fun in the Pug......
_KDF youll see when you come down to collect the car Im a genuine bloke with an opinion of cars he actually owns, most of these 172ers have not even properly tracked their cars let alone had 3 years driving in a 106 GTI, so how do they even know what theyre talking about......Oh sorry youve read it all in magazines or had a mate with one......
Tom
ClioSport Club Member
EV (s)
the thing is the ITR is a sports car developed to handle well from day one
The clio is a small hatch developed to carry 1/2/3/4/5 people around cheaply and with comfort. it quite an achevement that renault created the 172 from such humble beginings
its also rather worrying that you are comparing these cars.
"...most of these 172ers have not even properly tracked their cars let alone had 3 years driving in a 106 GTI, so how do they even know what theyre talking about"
BigBash - sorry to pick up on this, but I (and quite a few others on this site) have been on track in my car. Yes, its a Mk1 so I openly admit that I have no idea what a Mk2 handles like, but I cant believe Renault would have f*cked it up so completely with the newer car... No, I havent driven a 106GTi - which is why Im the first to concede it could well be a fundamentally better handling car. However, Ive owned many sporty cars (from 309GTi to a rally spec hand-built mini) and driven a Porsche 996 and Caterham Fireblade around track too... All I can say is that the Clio is by far the best car for my driving style that Ive ever been in - thats why I havent sold it yet! (only keep cars until they bore me - normally around 6 months!!!)
You feel more comfortable driving the 106GTi than your 172. End of story. This doesnt mean that you couldnt go every bit as fast in your 172 if you felt comfortable with its handling. Therefore, why do you disparage the 172s handling, just because it isnt your cup of tea?
I also thought this bit of your post was quite funny "Oh sorry youve read it all in magazines or had a mate with one..." - Didnt you buy one without trying it because you heard it was good?
No offence intended mate, just saying it as I see it... (Sorry for the long, dull post BTW
)Matt
In that Top Gear article, by the way, the Clio and Integra lapped similar times...
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