ITB/Omex fitting questions

[Cup_Phil]

Hi,

I've got a few questions about fitting Jenveys and an Omex

The wiring looks easy enough - only thing that needs splicing into the omex loom is the lambda sensor if I'm right?

The dashboard lights - apparently you get quite a few of them stuck on. Is this a case of remove the dials and stick tape over the lights that come on - or de-solder the led's or something of that manner? Just thinking about passing the MOT

Also my biggest concern - apparently there is an oil breather on the top of the rocker cover that breathes straight into the inlet manifold. What do you do with this when the inlet manifold is no longer on? Is there a breather plate or something you can get for it?

Thanks

 

[MicKPM]

Dash lights need to work for MOT purposes from January 2012... desolder or tape over at your own risk.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Fecks sake... nothings ever easy in this country

 

[Cup_Phil]

The MOT test is set to change by January 2012 with the following POSSIBLE changes:

1) Dashboard Warning Lights

A car will fail an MOT tset if a dashboard warning light shows a problem such as Airbags, Electric Power Steering, Electonic stability sytem and additional restraint systems.

That just says it will fail if a warning light is on - not that they check to make sure they function

From what I understand it's the coilpack and engine management light that sticks on

My only other option is to bin the renault ecu, loom, uch etc.. and fit a stack dash system - but that's a lot more money than I really wanted to spend

 

[Dan519]

the "breather" isn't a breather. it's ZERO issue at all.

As for dash lights, I'd think as long as you can make the lights go out you'll be ok. Personally I'm in the process of fitting a GEN90 with my ITB engine as it has proper CAN control

 

[theduck]

Days of Omex and similar are gone for anything other than track cars. Do it right first time and fit an EC1

 

[Cup_Phil]

Hrmmm I did look at the Gen90 as I quite like the idea of a plug+play solution - but it's a lot of money over the price of the omex I've got

In fact the extra it would cost would cover the cost of a race-technology dash2 and an omex 600 interface cable.
Then I could bin off all the ecu/uch/wiring and dash and just run a dash interface straight into the omex - but like I said it's a bit more than I wanted to spend - i'm just looking for the easiest way to get through the mot really

 

[Gray]

Why would an Omex suit a 'track car' rather than the other available solutions?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Days of Omex and similar are gone for anything other than track cars. Do it right first time and fit an EC1

There are many reasons I don't want to do that.
The primary of them being a very good mate of mine is one of the best mappers in the UK and works just across the road - he used to be an omex/dta dealer and now works mostly with pectel.

He can map it for me on an omex/dta and when I get cams I can go back for "tweeks"
We also have blyton up here to do some live mapping on track if needed

If I go with a proprietary system like Gen90 or EC1 I'm not going to be able to do that

 

[Dan519]

Why would an Omex suit a 'track car' any better than the other available solutions?

it's not that it's got any issue running the engine, you know I've run one myself for 2 years, and it's been on this car, as a daily for 6. The trouble is with newer cars and integrated systems. An older road car (mk1 valver etc) will still be absolutely fine and throw up no dash lights. I'll continue to use Canems ECU's on these.



Phil, I seem to remember you bought your ECU used so it was cheap? In that case you're clearly on a lower budget expectation that someone buying a new kit so it makes sense to find a solution with what you have. As new, the GEN90 works out at less than fitting an Omex 710 and loom, and with greater functionality, so the price is relative.

Unfortunately with new technology has come greater cost in the aftermarket to keep up.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Phil, I seem to remember you bought your ECU used so it was cheap? In that case you're clearly on a lower budget expectation that someone buying a new kit so it makes sense to find a solution with what you have. As new, the GEN90 works out at less than fitting an Omex 710 and loom, and with greater functionality, so the price is relative.

Unfortunately with new technology has come greater cost in the aftermarket to keep up.

Yes I've bought Jenveys, loom and omex 600 already mapped on a 182 making 193bhp
I'm hoping to fit it and get the map tweaked for mine - and it's cost less than half the new price

It's not really that my budget expectations are lower - I have the cash. But I don't see the point in selling the omex second hand for 3-400 and having to fork out £1000 for a proprietary system that's not as widely supported as an omex/dta. I like the idea that I can walk into anywhere and get a map - I don't want to be tied down to one supplier

 

[Gray]

I would listen to Danny... He knows his onions with ITB set-ups..

I agree with what he says older (pre 2000 canbus/OBDII) are well suited to run an Omex as you won't get any warning lights!

I would invest in a decent loom and ECU system... It won't cost much more (after you sell the Omex).. And will save you a world of potential problems!

Buy cheap, buy twice

 

[Cup_Phil]

What sort of "world of potential problems" would it possibly solve other than putting out a few LED's on the dashboard?

The omex 600 is still a very capable ecu for running the engine - it would cost me at LEAST another £700 to go for an EC-1 or GEN90

 

[Gray]

What sort of "world of potential problems" would it possibly solve other than putting out a few LED's on the dashboard?

The omex 600 is still a very capable ecu for running the engine - it would cost me at LEAST another £700 to go for an EC-1 or GEN90

Yeah the Omex ECU is fine for the job, although the tech is a little dated now!

More the fact you will be splicing into looms, where as you could get a solution that is plug and play

 

[Cup_Phil]

Why will I be splicing into looms?

The omex has come with an omex loom - the only parts where it was spliced into the 182 loom was for the Lambda sensor
So I was gonna chop a lambda sensor connector off a loom and get that attached to the omex loom - plug and play

 

[Cup_Phil]

Why will I be splicing into looms?

The omex has come with an omex loom - the only parts where it was spliced into the 182 loom was for the Lambda sensor
So I was gonna chop a lambda sensor connector off a loom and get that attached to the omex loom - plug and play

Oh after sitting and reading some threads apparently the two wires you have to splice are for the crank sensor - still not the end of the world. It's only 2 wires?

 

[Silent_Scone]

I've been running the omex 600 for 2 years. It's not that it's not capable, i've never really had an issue with it. However it is very dated and map3000 is temperamental. From what I understand it was patented by emerald, and omex bought it. Would of been old at the time I'd imagine. I've gone through a few omex sensors, coolant ones specifically so that's another downer, but avoidable.Down to budget but if you're buying into aftermarket management NOW i'd wait and get something current. Its like using 10 year old computer, there's far better now

 

[NorthloopCup]

Its only safety related function warning lights that will cause it to fail mot as of 2012 according to my mate who's a mot tester. If a car is equipped with abs for instance, if you then remove the entire abs system it can't fail its mot. Obviously on a cup abs is not a issue but the airbag side of things could well be. Simple solution is tape over the light and tell the mot man its all been removed. There's no way they can check anyway unless they remove the dash top!

Interested to know who the guy in Lincoln is that can map Pectel! Where does he work?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Silent Scone - the thing is mate I'm NOT buying into management now. I'm getting a VERY cheap omex 600 with a full loom that's totally plug and play
Second hand it's worth £3-400 on a good day. It would cost me at least £1k to get an EC-1 or a Gen90 - and then I couldn't easily get that mapped locally so I've got to drive to a company that will charge me full whack. So easily another £7-900 on top of what I've already paid and I'm not wanting to spend that amount just to make some lights go out LOL

I'm sure there are hundreds of things they can do that the omex can't but for the 8 times a year I take the clio out the garage and rape it around a track - I'm sure I wouldn't notice the difference

Northloop - I don't think airbags will be an issue as I've removed them all and re-programmed the airbag ecu so it doesn't show any warning lights
From what I understand I'll have an engine management light and a coilpack light on - that's it

As for the pectel mapping he doesn't like me advertising his company on forums as he got pretty sick of people asking if he could map their car for a few hundred quid - if you've got a genuine mapping enquiry drop me a PM and i'll give you his details

 

[NorthloopCup]

Yhpm. Can't see the engine managment light and coilpack light causing you a problem tbh. I know a decent garage in Lincoln that would do your mot and not be bothered about the warning lights. They don't do bent mot's, they're just understanding as they have had track toys themselves.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Cheers matey - just replied to your PM. Might have to get the MOT'ers details off you for when mines due in march

I didn't really want a big discussion about whether Omex is the right choice - not being a dick or anything to the people who've replied but it's very cheap, comes with a plug & play loom and does what I need

I could spend ££££'s on ecu's and mapping but at the end of the day my clio gets used about 30 times a year - if that - so not worth the investment

I just needed to know if my only options were to tape up the lights and what the oil breather did - think I'm sorted now thanks

 

[Dan519]

map3000 is temperamental. From what I understand it was patented by emerald, and omex bought it.

not even close

It's a GEMS based software, it's LIGHTYEARS ahead of even the latest emerald software which can't even make live changes. Lumenition used to use a much older version of similar software, and older Omex units used MAP2000. It is now however about 5 years since there were any updates related to the 600 (710 runs v0.89 now)

GWV4 which is GEMS most recent software is actually AWESOME. This is what the GEN90 is based around, with specific strategies to suit. It does cost to get ECU access via a dongle for dealers, but thats just license costs of newer software. This I believe is why Omex stick with MAP3000... it's free, which is popular.

 

[Silent_Scone]

I actually meant GEMS, are Emerald even still in the game?

 

[Fred@BTM]

Emerald are still going, Dave Walker know's his onions

 

[MicKPM]

Yep, Dave and Karl are still about doing their thing.

 

[Dan519]

they'd decent guys, just their software suuuuuuucks. I told them this when i went over there with a car

 

[MicKPM]

I don't mind the software TBH but I guess its what you're used to - I hear waht you're saying about the live mapping, or lack of, Danny. For people that can map it must be frustrating to have to stop and commit the changes before being able to carry on but its not an issue to me as I'm not a mapper and Dave does all my work for me... its his system after all.

 

[theduck]

Why would an Omex suit a 'track car' rather than the other available solutions?

Other solutions would be equally good just meant the fact that the Omex is a cheaper option and the dash lights aren't an issue if you don't need an mot.

 

[chrispy.clio]

To the OP, it's probably easier to buy a new lambda sensor from OMEX to fit the plug which is on the loom.

You need to splice the standard loom into the crank sensor wires to work the speedo or revcounter (can't remember)

With the MOT thing, I just blanked off the lights that came on!

Good luck with the fitting

 

[Cup_Phil]

Thanks mate - been reading your progress blog last night. Looks awesome
I wish I had the balls to rip all the standard wiring out LOL

If the plug on the lambda sensor is different I'll grab the lambda off the 182 that the Jenveys are currently on and swap it for my standard one - probably gonna be easiest

 

[Cup_Phil]

Just spoken to the guy who's stripping them off the 182
They don't have a lambda plug on the loom and run without the lambda connected

Seems fairly standard from other threads I've read - so that's one less thing to worry about LOL

 

[Dan519]

probably explains why the guy you got it off didn't keep it long and got rubbish mpg if he had no lambda connected (if it's the one i think it was) I bet it's still active in the software too.

Use one from a mk1 1.8 16v/williams. The 182 sensor is a 4 wire, Omex prefers a 3 wire sensor so it doesn't earth through the ECU

 

[Cup_Phil]

It's not the one your thinking of - it's been on the car for 6 months+, made 193bhp and there was no running issues with it while it was on the road

Looking at other threads people have rang Omex and Omex themselves have recommended running without a lambda.
I'll have a word with my mapping guy and see what he thinks about it

 

[Dan519]

Looking at other threads people have rang Omex and Omex themselves have recommended running without a lambda.

having worked for them, I'll tell you catagorically that this is bullshit

 

[Cup_Phil]

Weird - the loom is definitely supplied direct from Omex as their "Clio kit" and doesn't have a connection for a lambda

So you recommend I get this loom altered and have a lambda connection put on it then get the ecu reprogrammed to use lambda for trim?
I've got 2 narrowband's currently in the decat pipe and I've just bought an innovate wideband - so I've got plenty to choose from LOL

I must admit the more I think about all of this the more I'm starting to lean towards selling the omex and getting a gen90

 

[Dan519]

I've fitted a dozen or so of those kits/loom. It would have had a lambda wire spur in the loom originally. Thats been buggered about with. 100% get it wired in. Lambda is as important as air or water tem sensors IMO

 

[Cup_Phil]

OK mate - well i've paid the deposit and I'm picking the whole lot up on the 31st
When I get the loom in my hands I'll have a good look through it and might post up some pics and see if you can help if you don't mind

 

[magnastik]

Fecks sake... nothings ever easy in this country

I should live here in Portugal eheheheh