Itb's to Turbo advice

[Craig Ed]

Evening,

I have a few questions about going from itb's to a turbo conversion. It's a 172 mk2 with jenvey boddies and omex 600 management,


1. Can I use the existing loom that omex uses (injectors etc)


2. Can I keep the omex sensors?


3. Can I use the brake servo pipe that is now attached to the boddies?


4. I have removed the carbon canister, do I need this back again?


Besides putting manifolds and new gaskets back on with a map etc is this going to be ok on the standard loom using all the omex management connections?


I'm still reading a lot about lowering compression etc and ways to go about it but this is a year I'm taking out to rebuilt it slowly. It's currently stripped for spray painting atm then the engine is next.


Don't get me wrong, I love that epicness that Laves the bonnet via my window but fancy a change. Was great fun at Coombe and NBR.


A little guidance on the engine management side of life will be great.


/Craig

 

[wag1]

Yes, Yes, Yes and no

You will need a 3 bar map sensor or something similar, luckily I have one for sale

You will need a one way valve for your brake servo pipe so the turbo doesnt 'blow' into the brakes as obviously they need vacuum to function well

Few other silly bits but the main principle of the omex loom and set up you currently have is 100% usable

 

[T.Trophy]

As above really, try and get a decent magnetti marelli map sensor as I had a few issues with othe brands.

Suprisingly I didn't bother with a one way valve in the servo and never had any problems at all :S

Are you planning on running your ITBs and a turbo?

 

[Cupman29]

I wasn't going to bother with a one way valve as you will only use the brakes when off the throttle so should be under vacuum anyway.

 

[Ryanj]

Are you planning on running your ITBs and a turbo?

do it.

 

[Dan519]

Suprisingly I didn't bother with a one way valve in the servo and never had any problems at all :S

There's already one fitted as standard

 

[T.Trophy]

Well you learn something new every day! Cheers Dan

 

[Chip-mk1]

Get a diff in there while its all apart as well.

 

[Craig Ed]

Wag 1 - that's good new but I'm lead to believe now that I have the basic loom with out map that omex made. So it'll be the install the map up to the existing loom or rebuild one
And that way I can include auxiliary cabling too

T.trophy and Ryan j - no as I can see it becoming more unreliable as there is more that can go wrong with it. All gains aren't that great as I've read? And mapping would need to be spot on. The tps is only used to indicate that the throttle is closed?

Dan- that's good to know about the one way fitted already

Cupman- left foot braking ftw

Chip - diff makes sense, it'll be a saving up time later on the build.

It would be nice to get rid off the existing ecu as well.

Also dan I read you mentioned in another thread about with boddies that going into negative spark causing overheating in traffic? This is happening.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Best way to map for mutlithrottle on a turbo is to use something like a pectel t6 where you can have multiple fuel tables each based on map and swapped between based on throttle angle, mega money though.

Megasquirts alpa-n algorythm does a lot better job of coping with it than things like omex do if you are looking for a cheap ECU to do so, but TBH like you say its just a ballache for very very little gain, slightly better throttle response but no change in peak power and if you end up with mapping issues arising from the complications of running it that way then that throttle response wont be a gain at all, it will get worse.

I'd never personally advise it to someone doing a home build, its fine for manufacturers like Nissan who can develop the ecu and software to work well, but not so good when trying to make a budget aftermarket ecu cope with it.

Ive mapped a couple of cars with ITBs and turbo on, and its really difficult to get right, so if you arent mapping it yourself you'll end up with loads of extra mapping costs.

 

[Chip-mk1]

boddies that going into negative spark causing overheating in traffic? This is happening.

If you close the throttle up slightly then you wont have to run such inefficient timing to prevent it over revving at idle, but the downside on that is that it can end up meaning in cold weather you dont have enough airflow to start the engine cleanly without needing a few blips of the throttle.
This is why manufacturers fit idle speed control valves, so they can have the airflow only when they need it.

 

[Cupman29]

Cupman- left foot braking ftw

Left foot braking is to reduce the time of your right foot leaving the accelerator and going to the brake not so that you can press both at the same time.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Left foot braking is to reduce the time of your right foot leaving the accelerator and going to the brake not so that you can press both at the same time.

Rally drivers use left foot braking to allow them to control the balance of the car using the throttle, if you have a FWD car for example and apply the throttle while you are braking it will shift brake balance backwards. If done well you can essentially use the footbrake almost like a handbrake to bring the back end round without needing to take your one hand out of commission to do so.
Not done like that on a circuit car typically though.

 

[Dan519]

Also dan I read you mentioned in another thread about with boddies that going into negative spark causing overheating in traffic? This is happening.

yes, fairly simple fix really, just have to setup the static idle screw and spark idle table carefully to strike a balance between throttle opening and ignition timing. If you're going negative the EGT's will make you run very hot

 

[wag1]

To save yourself money just seriously stick with what you have. Unless you want a world record breaker then just use the omex you have, it is a capable ecu and it obviously works

Definately get a magnetti marreli or similar, luckily that is the brand I have for sale) as I had similar problems to T.Trophy with cheap s**t nasty ones. The genuines are about £85 new.

 

[Craig Ed]

Cheers for the replies, and info on the spark vs fuel table. This is not really going to be a problem as I will be moving on from this. True stick with what you already got but it's nice to have a change and I really only young once (27) and the money is decent so it's nice to explore the automotive world. The character will be changed a lot but heh. Nothing mega here. No crazy turbo to boddies just an enthusiast with a few questions looking the use the overpriced when I bought it omex ecu.

As you answered most of my questions and probably someone who is thinking the same as the search never returned this scenario

How much are you looking for the 3 bar magnetti?

/Craig

 

[Chip-mk1]

Wag1 was just saying stick with the omex, not stick with the whole setup mate.

When you are turbo you can obviously go back to running an ISCV if you wish, although most turbo cars on omex I map dont have it, once you have lower cr its actually easier to get it to idle without getting hot as it can take more timing change.

 

[Craig Ed]

Ha yes he was my misinterpretation.

The idle speed control valve right? It's not a necessity tho?

Ive been reading the sticky on building your own turbo and it was great

Thanks for all your help.

 

[tom172cup]

I have a diff for sale

 

[Aydon182]

I have a diff for sale

What dif u got ?
Price?