Juddering at low RPM

[Radugns]

Hello,

I've been driving my Clio 172 since last year. Now the car have done 100k miles. I've got since I own the car a very annoying juddering at low RPM, from idle to 2500RPM.
The problem is available only when it is (almost) full throttle, when it is over 2500RPM no more juddering and goes to 7500RPM without a problem or lagging.
I've changed the following:
-leads
-sparkplugs
-new oem injectors
-new oem coil pack
-new lambda (the second is out due to decat)

And the car have:
-ktr air filter
-182 manifold
-RSTuner

I've been running high octane fuel since I own the car. I've also changed the dephaser and cambelt last November.

Thanks,
Radu

 

[Christopher]

TDC sensor? Above the gearbox in the block.

 

[Radugns]

I've swaped it with an oem, but sh one, and nothing changed

 

[Radugns]

I've bought a new tdc sensor and the problem is still there. On what should I take look now?
Thanks

 

[Raceface_13]

only other things to try are, clean the throttle body, map, coolant temp sensor. don't think they are really related to your problem but still.
have you had it pluged into any diagnostic equipment see if anythings logged?

 

[Radugns]

The RS tuner only, and I get one time inconsistency between track 1-2 (I believe) but on that moment the car did not rev and a quick stop and then start again the engine and it does work ok. I clean the throttle body at that time and no more issues with it. I will give a try on what you said above.
What about replacing the plug on the tdc with the new blue one? The first day I run with a brand new TDC works perfect...so should be a correlation there.
And...the O2 rear lambda is removed.

 

[STEVE.M]

Compression tested?
@Radugns

 

[Radugns]

I did not make any compression test...yet. Could there be other problems that can be notice when I have a bad compression on a cylinder?
Thanks

 

[da rok]

my map sensor gave similar problems, bad connection on its plug as well as a bad earth by the brake fluid reservoir

 

[Radugns]

I've cleaned the sensor and the plug, but nothing changed so far. I will try a new plug for the tdc sensor.

 

[da rok]

I've cleaned the sensor and the plug, but nothing changed so far. I will try a new plug for the tdc sensor.

have you tried cleaning the earths? there are 5 of them i think

 

[Radugns]

Checked and checked and no result. The TDC plug seams to be...fine:-?? but could not be sure until I change it and the sensor itself.

 

[da rok]

have you tried a diagnostic to see what the sensors are doing? compression test is also quick and easy

 

[Radugns]

I did not make any compression test yet. On the rs tuner diag nothing shown, except for the missing second lambda. But I forgot to mention something, when I am at low rpm where juddering is presented, and first 2 3 second I give a small throttle and then kick down the car runs perfect, only when I give almost full throttle from a constant acceleration I have this problem.

 

[Raceface_13]

Did you get to the bottom of this in the end bud? Iv found mine idles better after a good..."spirited drive"

 

[imprezaworks]

Yeah they do need a blast every now and again

 

[Radugns]

Still nothing have changed, the car still runs with a juddering at low RPM. And yeah, I drive the car kind of sporty always.

 

[Dex90]

when you say juddering do you mean reluctant to rev or do you mean lumpy? if its the latter could it be upper engine mount/ dogbone mount/ transmission mount?

 

[Radugns]

It is reluctant to rev, it does not revs as it should, and above 3000 it revs OK.
The engine mounts seems to be fine.

 

[Dex90]

you've changed basically everything so i would get timing checked/compression test.
might be ok at higher rpm due to dephaser altering timing which is helping with it revving.

 

[Radugns]

The belts were done at the end of 2016 and I think the timing was done back then. But I will make a check. What I can do is to remove the plastic caps from the cams and see if the lines are aligned, hope to see a problem)

 

[Dex90]

did your problems start after timing belt change?

 

[Radugns]

I changed the belt due to dephasor. Before that the belt was also changed at Renault and no, the problem was also before.

 

[Radugns]

I will replace the silicon gasket on the rocker cap next month and also a new cambelt and alignment, I will stay there with the mechanic and the service manual from Renault to be sure that he did not skip anything.

 

[Dex90]

haha, crack the whip! if he doesn't bring out 2 timing tools, one to lock cams gearbox side and one to lock cam sprockets, timing belt side, then you can guarantee they aren't doing it right

 

[Radugns]

He had those tools because I saw them. I will buy a new belt and stay there with my car untill I am sure that is right everything.

 

[Radugns]

I put back the stock map and surprise! The car runs perfect. So the problem was the rstuner map...I think noone think of this. Problem solved

 

[Radugns]

Can a 2.25" exhaust pipe without decat and no silencer cause this kind of problem? I run just a SuperSprint muffler. With the stock map I have no problems on low rpm and with the rstuner map I have no problems on high rpm.
I will check the compression and cambelt soon. But before I ask this about the exhaust.

 

[sysak]

While I'm here I'm going to plug my "problem". It's not really a big deal but still annoying in traffic, so living in London, it happens quite a lot.
Mine is lumpy/jumpy on very low revs (below 1500) on low gears, especially 1st, when transitioning between minimal throttle and no throttle at all. It's like that 1mm of pedal travel causes the car to want to nearly stop and off throttle it starts doing little jumps forward rather than being smooth. I've cleaned the throttle body, but no difference. Is this normal and if not, can anything be done about that?

 

[Vaughan]

While I'm here I'm going to plug my "problem". It's not really a big deal but still annoying in traffic, so living in London, it happens quite a lot.
Mine is lumpy/jumpy on very low revs (below 1500) on low gears, especially 1st, when transitioning between minimal throttle and no throttle at all. It's like that 1mm of pedal travel causes the car to want to nearly stop and off throttle it starts doing little jumps forward rather than being smooth. I've cleaned the throttle body, but no difference. Is this normal and if not, can anything be done about that?

That sounds like the engine/cam timing is off. It seems to be hard to get right.

 

[sysak]

That's possible, as I believe the car was serviced by a previous owner at a local butcher-shop rather than at a proper garage.:wink: If this is the problem, that's not the end of the world, as my dephaser and belts need doing anyway, so I'll have it looked at soon. If anyone has seen or has a clue what other things can cause this type of behaviour, feel free to share the ideas.

 

[Jayne-1991]

That's possible, as I believe the car was serviced by a previous owner at a local butcher-shop rather than at a proper garage.😉 If this is the problem, that's not the end of the world, as my dephaser and belts need doing anyway, so I'll have it looked at soon. If anyone has seen or has a clue what other things can cause this type of behaviour, feel free to share the ideas.

Did you get this sorted? If so what was the issue? My car has similar symptoms