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K-tec or JMS Tuning
- Thread starter Windy172cup
- Start date
Black Gold Trophy
Just to clear the confusion - we know that the unit on the rear beam manages the lights, we were questioning whether it has any electronic input into the EBD system that the non cup RS models use, investigations are still ongoing
well not really... you prove your own ignorance by making bold unsupported statements like:
when if you really knew your 'onions' you would know that the 172 cup is the only sport model fitted with a brake compensator and the 182 cup is fitted with the same braking system as the regular 172/182 models and doesnt have the rear height sensor therefore it is clear it has no relevance to the EBD program in the ABS system.
I appreciate this doesnt affect your ability to upload an off the shelf remap from an rs tuner unit and quite honestly I dont doubt your ability to do it, only I cant help but think the extra cost you pay at k-tec is to cover their liability insurance should they damage a customer's ecu in the process.
03 clio 172
I had work done down at JMS on sat and cant fault the lads there, in ref to you comment Jack ref liability insurance, who's to say they dont have any and would not sort out things like a damaged ecu that they have damaged out for you?
They are only a small business that has just started out and they are never going to know all the ins and outs of the car's to start with. I have been to reputable renault dealers which have half the knowledge of what these guys have.
They are only a small business that has just started out and they are never going to know all the ins and outs of the car's to start with. I have been to reputable renault dealers which have half the knowledge of what these guys have.
e92 + E46 M3 + Cup
Jack, I really wish i knew what issue you have with JMS, You have done your very best on a few occasions now to show us up, we are still looking into the rear height sensor, here is a picture taken in the past week of a 172 Cup's brake compensator
As you can see, Its not connected to the rear beam where as a non-sport would be, the 172 cup, from the factory ( standard form ) has fixed brake bias
Just for the record we do have liability insurance, what do you think we would do if an ECU failed, push a customers car out of the workshop and just leave them on the side of the road?
Thank you to all those that have left positive feedback
Thanks,
James
As you can see, Its not connected to the rear beam where as a non-sport would be, the 172 cup, from the factory ( standard form ) has fixed brake bias
Just for the record we do have liability insurance, what do you think we would do if an ECU failed, push a customers car out of the workshop and just leave them on the side of the road?
Thank you to all those that have left positive feedback
Thanks,
James
Clio MK2 Phase 1 172
So if an serious accident occured, they would be happy to rectify the problem completely without insurance? Just would scare me someone playing with my car that has "7 years" between them and doesnt know the difference.
corsa ecoflex
ffs guys just cut jms some slack yeah....they have just started out and seem to be doing ok...i have had my car worked on by james on many occasions..as for the 7 years experience between them,so what...how do you think ktec started out or gdi..every company starts somewhere...fair play on james and tom for providing a service that is very good and comprehensive...long may it last well done jms....as for liability insurance dont you think it would be a bit thick on tom and james if they didnt have it..
Black Gold Trophy
James, for the record I have no issue with JMS tuning...
All I have ever done is provided what I believe to be factually accurate information to act as a guide where you guys have been mistaken or unclear, which I think is perfectly fair on a public forum where I am granted freedom of speach providing I obide to the forum regulations.
The OP asked for a comparison between yourselves and ktec, all I did was break down what I believed to be the case. I didn't present it as fact like Tom usually does when hes talking about something he clearly knows nothing about.
Below you will find a page from the Renault manual that covers the differences of the 172 cup compared to the regular sport models.
You will find the 172 cup is indeed fitted with a load sensitive compensator that adjusts the hydraulic pressure within the lines going to the rear calipers depending on the indicated load in the rear of the car.
All I have ever done is provided what I believe to be factually accurate information to act as a guide where you guys have been mistaken or unclear, which I think is perfectly fair on a public forum where I am granted freedom of speach providing I obide to the forum regulations.
The OP asked for a comparison between yourselves and ktec, all I did was break down what I believed to be the case. I didn't present it as fact like Tom usually does when hes talking about something he clearly knows nothing about.
Below you will find a page from the Renault manual that covers the differences of the 172 cup compared to the regular sport models.
You will find the 172 cup is indeed fitted with a load sensitive compensator that adjusts the hydraulic pressure within the lines going to the rear calipers depending on the indicated load in the rear of the car.
182 has now gone!
+ 1 Ivan... I dont get what it is with certain people on this forum being so keen to always put others down and have a dig!
I have had work done by JMS and can say I am very happy with there work, Every company has to start somewhere, and I hope bigger and better things for the lads who work there arses off to make a go of this. Good luck with it all!!
I have had work done by JMS and can say I am very happy with there work, Every company has to start somewhere, and I hope bigger and better things for the lads who work there arses off to make a go of this. Good luck with it all!!
Right Jack, I'm going to be honest with you. I'd love to sit here all day and debate the ins & outs of brake bias with you, however this thread is not the time or place for it, it is something that we have been openly tinkering with as members of the community, not as tight lipped commercial robots.
At this point I would also like to mention that we do indeed have full public liability insurance for our own protection as well as our customers. As I am sure you are aware problems that may arise from any small companies work is usually solved by personally financing the repairs/corrections, in fact the law dictates that James and I personally sponsor the companies liability, but we have insurance as an extra precaution.
I'll put it this way, if you can find someone, in fact anyone unhappy with the work we have carried out thus far (of which there has been enough too warrant a new premises as of today) then I should probably take business advice from you.
Every company starts somewhere, including JMS tuning. We're not a multi-national, but we are honest, open & meticulous.
Jack, could you do me a favour and post up your paint efforts of our workshop you added to the original launch thread? Thinking back it was neither factual or accurate & came across as nothing but a low down piss-take on the first page.
Last edited:
Black Gold Trophy
whatever mate, but maybe you should learn your stuff before you come on here claiming to be an expert.
You wont debate the ins and outs of the brake bias discussion because you are wrong and you made your argument as if it was well researched fact and I should instantly take your word for it, when it was just pure conjecture. Then I presented the information that proved otherwise and strangely you cant be bothered to discuss it any further?
You wont debate the ins and outs of the brake bias discussion because you are wrong and you made your argument as if it was well researched fact and I should instantly take your word for it, when it was just pure conjecture. Then I presented the information that proved otherwise and strangely you cant be bothered to discuss it any further?
corsa ecoflex
I dont recall seeing anywhere that tom said he was an expert though jack....
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
This is wandering from the original point of this thread. An opinion on a tuners work is solely that. If you have personally experienced the service from JMS then that would warrant you a say in this thread...be it good or bad.
In regards to the brake bias discussion, both James and Tom have stated that they are looking into it....they are not offering it as a service until they know 110% that it'll work. End of story.
In regards to the brake bias discussion, both James and Tom have stated that they are looking into it....they are not offering it as a service until they know 110% that it'll work. End of story.
Black Gold Trophy
sorry mate I deleted it when you pm'd me because you had lost your sense of humour.. It was a piss take cos you just ignored my questions, I can take people taking the piss out of me and im not all that bothered by it, but I appreciate some people are a little more sensitive so I did you the favour of removing it.
Black Gold Trophy
read my quote in post #42, he said that in james' project thread, when I asked him what evidence he had to support his claims, he simply ignored it.
The evidence is posted up here in this thread and on the project thread, it is from Renault's manual and after all they did build the car didnt they?
Black Gold Trophy
Well the original poster asked for views, I gave mine end of story!
to summarise: JMS may be cheaper but k-tec have actually been working on renaults for several years, therefore they can justify their prices.
corsa ecoflex
indeed ktec have been working on renaults for years,but they to started out like jms,did they not....no one is asking you to use jms jack,of course you go to ktec mate..but there is not need to keep on having a dig at jms is there...you take your money to ktec,im sure james wont mind
Saab 93 Aero Wagon
Jack this is obviously an issue you have with Tom, rather than with JMS as a company as they have not offered the brake bias mod as a service to the public.
Therefore you should be discussing your issues with Tom privately rather than trying to muddy the JMS waters.
After all, they have not done anything wrong.
Therefore you should be discussing your issues with Tom privately rather than trying to muddy the JMS waters.
After all, they have not done anything wrong.
ITB'd MK1
Worst thread on the internet?
Black Gold Trophy
For the last time I have no personal issues with either Tom or James, in fact I've met James a couple of times and would agree he is a sound guy.
I agree k-tec/GDI would have started out as a small business, however you are missing the point. I was presenting my view to the OP that k-tec have more experience, thus why they are more expensive.
All I did was correct Tom as he was incorrect and completely undermined any information I presented, but he seems far too stubborn to admit that in this case he might be wrong.
I'm off to bed now, nunight guys xxx
I agree k-tec/GDI would have started out as a small business, however you are missing the point. I was presenting my view to the OP that k-tec have more experience, thus why they are more expensive.
All I did was correct Tom as he was incorrect and completely undermined any information I presented, but he seems far too stubborn to admit that in this case he might be wrong.
I'm off to bed now, nunight guys xxx
Bit disappointed really Jack. I thought we were having an interesting discussion on the brake bias in the other thread and you turned it into a personal attack here. What with the accusations of having no insurance its hardly fair substantiated stuff.
Read the thread carefully. We approached the rear sensor in such a way as too see if it had an input on the cars braking behavior. It was very openly an experiment for want of a better word. I was interested to see your info on the topic as it was a part of the car we have never looked into/replaced before. Along you came with the Renault manual and provided clarification on the topic which explained a lot.
You were right with the rear brake discussion & having a Renault manual to consult certainly helped clear up the issue & having thought that a 172 had no rear sensing mechanism you have educated me otherwise.
The info was constructive for the community and for myself. Its a shame as many of the other commercial members on here have to keep stum about anything they may/may not know about the cars due to their reputation being torn to bits, as you are attempting to do to ours.
I should point out at this point that at no point have I masqueraded as an expert, take this thread for example:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=423625&highlight=JC5+box&page=3
Again just simply engaging in an interesting topic openly.
330Ci (Fail)Sport
Back to the topic, JMS will do a great job for you. The work they carry out is only stuff which they know they can do to a top standard, and have done so before. They do know a hell of a lot too. Just listening to James on the phone on Saturday made my mind boggle with all the things he was saying about the clios.
I've known James a while, experienced a lot of his work first hand and had my car in JMS, and there's no doubt in my mind that while they're running, they're the only ones touching my car, already organising my next visit. They were great to fit me in on such short notice too. Am still to meet Tom though (didn't know you were there on Sat Tom!) but by reading his posts on here, he's got great knowledge too.
Congrats on the new premises too boys.
I've known James a while, experienced a lot of his work first hand and had my car in JMS, and there's no doubt in my mind that while they're running, they're the only ones touching my car, already organising my next visit. They were great to fit me in on such short notice too. Am still to meet Tom though (didn't know you were there on Sat Tom!) but by reading his posts on here, he's got great knowledge too.
Congrats on the new premises too boys.
www.renparts.co.uk
on the brake bias subject i was under the impression the 172 had the valve fitted but it wasn't connected?
ITB'd MK1
same as this. there's no rod from the valve to the axle. Quite a common MOT fail (incorrectly) as the tester thinks it's broken/missing. Even reading that page it reads to me that it's a pre-adjusted bias valve, not a load proportioning valve
