k-tec turbo is it ready yet

[cliotuRS]

err... for those with new 172s / 182s couldnt they sell there cars and add 5K for a megane RS 225 2.0T and tune that up to 250bhp + surley that would also be as fast because the chassis/electronics have been revised extensivly to cope with lots of FWD power.. all the reviews ive heard state that torque steer is no no longer an issue so the power is more likely to be put down ((especially with 18" wheels)) ?!?! check out the off topic post "megane 225"

also theres a hardore Megane225Cup planned with switchable T/C etc..

 

[edde]

cliotuRS your right its not worth it have a look on autotrader or somehting like that for a fast car under £6k (the cost of turboing the 172) and youll find some much faster cars.

Spending that much on a 172 isnt for performance only. The people who do it will either want a unique 172 or have some sort of love for a 172

 

[mk1_172_lad]

Oi, there my pics you cheeky git! Batterys in the boot, running 260bhp @ 10psi at the moment, apparently been tested to destruction literally, gonna be offering a uprated higher boost option later on. Was chatting to one of the guys at K-tec yesterday at Donny for quite a while about it, need to save now to get it on m1 mk1 172! Was running higher boost when they tested it in Mexico, 16psi ish running same power though due to temp difference, ie hot in Mexico, crappy english weahter means 10psi produces same power so I was told. 260bhp at only 10psi is impressive though, kicks in at 2k so thats a kick at 2k from turbo, kick at 5500 from VVT.

 

[cliotuRS]

so 0-60 is 5.5 that is damn quick. but i would want 5.0 ! all the time. Hehe and also faster than 135mph @ least 145-150. a freind on mine has a 328i with headwork chip etc.. and he can hit 150mph quickly.. if i raced him i whoop his ass but @ 135 he continue and so would the other 20% of cars that i wanna challenge.

edde i understand its an enthusiats persuit.. personally i have a mortgage + all the other associated bills and taxes to deal with including petrol... we have a joint income of 27K and i still couldnt justify that on a car that already whips 80% of anything i bother to race and the economy is good but not that good. yea it would be damn special and if i went to meets or track days then i would be interested.. hmmm track days with my work car... nup.



*edit*

so what im saying is that im disapointed at the £6000 price tag. at £4000 including fitting i could maybe convince my other half (just, but it would probably mean i have to get down on my knees every night Litterally !! hehe )

 

[BenR]

VVT doesnt kick at 5500rpm.

And edde, your prices are a bit high.

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 18 April 2004

And edde, your prices are a bit high.

How much are we talking about Im sure someone said they saw an advert for the K-Tec one for £6k fitted.

The kit is between £3 and £3.5k depending upon the exchange rate as far as I remember working it out last nite.

As for the costs of fitting it well its complete guess work realy I thought a few people had guessed about £3k to fit it.

How much do you think it would costs?

 

[cliotuRS]

yea thats really the biggest issue here.. cost. but if it were 4.5K inc fitting it would be just about possible for me, but i couldnt get anything else done after that for a few months. I currently have a standard exhaust. .

for the most comitted clio fan it mite be worth dumping the 172 with the spare cash and getting a 1.6 TB converison, after the TB insurance would rise to that of about the same level of the 172 standard. but thats getting rid of features comforts styling handling badge etc..

is any of this worth it for 6K ?

someone must come up with a cheaper option as the 172 is harder to tune than most it seems for small money.

Again i refer to http://www.Autodelta.co.ukwww.Autodelta.co.uk for the alfa romeo range. they do LSDs clutch cams breaks etc.. of exellent quality at very resonable prices considering their niche market.



£2795 http://www.ad.3wows.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_31&products_id=457147 1.6 Supercharged

£3,150.00 http://www.ad.3wows.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_31&products_id=456147 Selespeed Turbo

£2,850.00 http://www.ad.3wows.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_31&products_id=49Turbo Engine Kit 147 180 bhp 1.6 16v (high power to weight)

£3,550.00 http://www.ad.3wows.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_31&products_id=49Turbo Engine Kit 147 198 bhp 1.6 16v

£2,795.00 http://www.ad.3wows.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_31&products_id=51Turbo Engine Kit 147 205 bhp 2.0 16v !

£3,250.00 http://www.ad.3wows.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_31&products_id=50UTurbo Engine Kit 147 230 bhp 2.0 16v/U !!!!

so there you go.. clio owners seem to pay more for parts. even cams on there site with a claimed 18-20 bhp are much cheaper than the clios.

http://www.ad.3wows.com/catalog/images/power%20graph.jpghttp://www.ad.3wows.com/catalog/images/power%20graph.jpg < thats the 198bhp version, still lots of torque and power, so the 230 wil be very nice.

before you say "ktecs are this much without fitting blah..blah"

£3250 =

Phase 3 engines. EOBD-Compliant. Embraces the latest technology. Power output 230bhp from 150 bhp. Autodeltas renowned Turbo Charger Kit, Garrett T25 Turbocharger, intercooler and re-mapped factory ECU. Transforms Your 147 2.0 into GTA beater: Must be installed by trained Autodelta technicians (price includes fitting).

 

[Andyman]

Quote: Originally posted by mk1_172_lad on 18 April 2004

Oi, there my pics you cheeky git! Batterys in the boot, running 260bhp @ 10psi at the moment, apparently been tested to destruction literally, gonna be offering a uprated higher boost option later on. Was chatting to one of the guys at K-tec yesterday at Donny for quite a while about it, need to save now to get it on m1 mk1 172! Was running higher boost when they tested it in Mexico, 16psi ish running same power though due to temp difference, ie hot in Mexico, crappy english weahter means 10psi produces same power so I was told. 260bhp at only 10psi is impressive though, kicks in at 2k so thats a kick at 2k from turbo, kick at 5500 from VVT.

Did you manage to get any kind of performance figures out of K-tec , 0-60 ,0-100 and mpg etc etc ?

 

[Daipac]

WOW ! That engine is looking fooking awesome ! At Donny did you see the car running ? Sound good ? Anybody got any video footage of the 172 Turbo ?

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by edde on 18 April 2004

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 18 April 2004

And edde, your prices are a bit high.

How much are we talking about Im sure someone said they saw an advert for the K-Tec one for £6k fitted.

The kit is between £3 and £3.5k depending upon the exchange rate as far as I remember working it out last nite.

As for the costs of fitting it well its complete guess work realy I thought a few people had guessed about £3k to fit it.

How much do you think it would costs?





SOrry, i was reffering to your supercharging prices and prices for pistons etc etc.

800 quid for forged pistons is about 50% more than i would pay.

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by cliotuRS on 18 April 2004

someone must come up with a cheaper option as the 172 is harder to tune than most it seems for small money.
Again i refer to http://www.Autodelta.co.ukwww.Autodelta.co.uk for the alfa romeo range. they do LSDs clutch cams breaks etc.. of exellent quality at very resonable prices considering their niche market.




That alfa place does a load of work on alfas they have been in business yrs plus they will make quite a few cars so prices are less due to bulk buying and development costs spread more. They are cheap though.

Thje 172 engine is diffficult to tune as its quite highly tuned standard not many N/A engine out there make 84hp/liter. Turbo engoine have the easy potential or a remap with higher boost but there nothing like that for N/A engines you need manifold makeing which costs.

For £2 to 2.5k you should be able to go over the 200hp mark but the more power you want the moere you pay and the graph of cost vs gain deminishes the further you go.

 

[BenR]

THe 172 engine isnt hard to tune, nor is it in ahigh state of tune already.

What makes it hard to tune is the cost of uprating certain parts that are needed to take it to the next step. Unlike honda with their 120bhp/ltr engines renault didnt invest the same sort of time or money into developing the mechanical strength or cylinder head design that honda did.

Hondas B16 engine is capable of 350bhp in NA form. But the multitude of parts needed and the quality of the parts makes it expensive.

The renault engine can make superb power, over 300bhp if people are willing to spend that much on it. But nobody is, so tuners dont even bother desining an engine to a spec that would be required to make that power. Punters just wouldnt pay, nor be able to live with the daily driving habbits of the engine.

The potential and technology is there, its not hard to achieve, but it will cost. As it does with any engine.

Hondas engines can be upped a fair amount, but take the F20C engine for example. Higher piston speeds than the average F1 engine. WIthout using exotic materials, just good design. So taking this engine above the 250odd bhp requires alot more fettling and you need to jump straight to exotic materials and modifying techniques.

Its all relative at the end of the day.

THe mini A series engine is harder to tune to a level that is comparable, but its been about so long that parts can be pumped out all day long for pennys.

 

[cliotuRS]

so BenR to sumise your statement the result is dont do it unless your willing to throw more money than you should resonably expect compared with other makes of cars.

so. only do if totally comitted to your clio and are planning a long and lenghty life with it.



is it worth it???

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 18 April 2004

Hondas B16 engine is capable of 350bhp in NA form. But the multitude of parts needed and the quality of the parts makes it expensive.
The renault engine can make superb power, over 300bhp if people are willing to spend that much on it. But nobody is, so tuners dont even bother desining an engine to a spec that would be required to make that power. Punters just wouldnt pay, nor be able to live with the daily driving habbits of the engine.

Hondas engines can be upped a fair amount, but take the F20C engine for example. Higher piston speeds than the average F1 engine.

Sorry to keep asking question Ben but what a B16 engine. The F20 is the S2000/CTR one I think.

So a 300hp 172 engine would have to rev to honda level with an advanced cam would it or is there potential to keep the same operating rpm but increase flow to the cylinder at all revs. HWat sort of mods would you need I take it the engine would bneed almost comnpletly rebuilding ie new pistons crank extreme head work and stronger valve pistons to stop any chance of bounce at high revs.

 

[Tom]

Good alternative to a mk2v6.

182 + Turbo.

 

[coolspot007007]

Sorry if im getting the wrong end of the stick but, am I right in thinking LSD is primarily for better cornering ability, on a FWD at least. Surely for the same money you might be better getting a traction control system, if power delivery is what youre after?

 

[172mgw]

hmmmmm having seen that turbo engine, i might have to sell the other half to slave traders for 6k!

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by edde on 18 April 2004

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 18 April 2004

Hondas B16 engine is capable of 350bhp in NA form. But the multitude of parts needed and the quality of the parts makes it expensive.
The renault engine can make superb power, over 300bhp if people are willing to spend that much on it. But nobody is, so tuners dont even bother desining an engine to a spec that would be required to make that power. Punters just wouldnt pay, nor be able to live with the daily driving habbits of the engine.

Hondas engines can be upped a fair amount, but take the F20C engine for example. Higher piston speeds than the average F1 engine.

Sorry to keep asking question Ben but what a B16 engine. The F20 is the S2000/CTR one I think.

So a 300hp 172 engine would have to rev to honda level with an advanced cam would it or is there potential to keep the same operating rpm but increase flow to the cylinder at all revs. HWat sort of mods would you need I take it the engine would bneed almost comnpletly rebuilding ie new pistons crank extreme head work and stronger valve pistons to stop any chance of bounce at high revs.

B16 is the 1.6 twin cam VTEC (older CTR is B16a and the engine codes vary like renault), F20C is the S2000, CTR is the K90.

To make a 300bhp F4R would take me ages to type the spec. But it goes along the lines of more RPM for more power. SO that means a different and very long duration high lift agressive cam, 10,000rpm, steel crank, steel or titainium rods and pistons if you can afford it, chromoly rings, 12.5/13:1CR, loads of headflow, an awesomely designed inlet system that would actually work better with a single large TB and properly designed inlet manifold/plenham...........all teh associated lighter valves, higer spring poundage, different engine clearance specs etc etc etc.

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by cliotuRS on 18 April 2004


so BenR to sumise your statement the result is dont do it unless your willing to throw more money than you should resonably expect compared with other makes of cars.

so. only do if totally comitted to your clio and are planning a long and lenghty life with it.



is it worth it???

worth it?

HELL YEA!

im not saying dont at all!

All im saying is that perception is warped as load of motors have been about for donkeys years and everythings been done to death, so people tend to think its easy.

Look at it this way. On a totally std vaux C20XE (redtop) 2ltr....TBs alone give you 190bhp, roamer has 212bhp on the F4R alone with basically what is a prototype TB system.

The F4R has loads and loads of potential, but if you want power, you pay for it. Thats the way it goes....nowt wrong with it, its expensive work.

 

[rich[182]]

that engine bay looks the muts nuts, If my 172 was a summer weekend 2nd car I honestly think Id have a crack at having it done just for the uniqueness of it but its my everyday, all year, all weather including work car so theres no way Id contemplate spending that dosh unless it was for cruising, track, shows or meets, Have to say if I ever changed jobs & was offered company car Id seriously think about it.................loan & visa card heaven but you only live friggin once.............

Oh the joy of a dump valve !

 

[cliotuRS]

wastegates better hehe..

yea i love the thing TBH it look great and i cant wait for clips of both sound and video + speedo 0-60 to see just how quick it really is. il never get one but its nice to know a clio has a way of keeping up with the big boys like STI or M3. if there was a cheaper lower powered alternative then i would.. i.e Roamer style with 212-220 surley thats a fast car also weighing less than a CTR and having 20-25 bhp more ((which counts more in a light weight also per 1bhp)). im sure this has opened the flood gates for more alternatives to the Ktec TB, it just needs some more interest via publicity video sound pictures etc.. in order to generate a significant interest to someone who will pick up on this target market.

the future looks good.

 

[jigme]

So what alloys are on the K-tech turbo car??...were do you get them from

 

[hydeyho]

Look like the KEI racing wheels

 

[BIGDAVE]

Where can you find KEI racing wheels,done a search but nothing.

 

[connor]

Bring on the 1.2 16v Turbo conversion wh00p wh00p

 

[Fred@BTM]

its not properly running yet, theyre waiting for the electics (its driveable)

as soon as it comes on boost the throttle plate is closed

 

[haitch]

hey this is a l8 post but iv bin away, so if they r waiting on electrics does this mean they dont have a definate retail price, or does somebody know for sure?