KTR DTH throttle bodies

[j666bed]

Hi need a bit of help....

I have purchased a k tec throttle body kit off ebay for my phs 2 172, with the throttle posision sensor i do not have a conversion loom to connection to the oe throttle body plug, i know the wire numbers on the plug are 1,2 and 5, but i need to match these wire to the new throttel posion sensor, which will be -,+ & sender, can anyone help?

cheers

 

[Icarus]

Is it the P&G dual output throttle pot? If so then:

Red = +5V
Black = 0V
Yellow = Sig #1
White = Sig #2

 

[j666bed]

cheers mates

sorry i may not have been clear, im am aware of the wires coming from the sensor, it is the wires on the OE plug that i am trying to connect to that i need to identify, there are 6 in total (3 for throttle and 3 for throttle potentiometer), renault have told me that wire number 1, 2 & 5 on the OE plug are for the potentiometer, but that is all the help they seem to want to give, now i need to identify these three wires to make the right connection. - hope this makes sense!

 

[sideways danny]

have you tried calling ktec to see if they will sell you the adaptor loom?

 

[j666bed]

have contacted Ktec this morning waiting for Andy or Sean to get back to me, ideally was hoping to identify them to allow a neat solder and heat shrink rather than plugs, but a conversion loom may be the way to go!

 

[Jay Payne]

I can hear Matt at TDF crying from here with the mention of solder in an engine wiring loom.

He advised us to use these on our car and they work very well. Soldered joint in engine bay + vibration + heat = bad/broken joint

 

[j666bed]

point taken...

 

[Cup_Phil]

I can hear Matt at TDF crying from here with the mention of solder in an engine wiring loom.

He advised us to use these on our car and they work very well. Soldered joint in engine bay + vibration + heat = bad/broken joint

Theres nothing at all wrong with soldered joints in engine looms - if done by a proper electrician that knows what he's doing

For 90% of us though - yeah it's a bad idea lol

 

[mikeh]

Joining wires together with solder isn't going to be any better done by an electrician. It's hardly rocket science.

I can appreciate issues people claim by soldering wires together, but if you've twisted, soldered and heat shrinked the connection, I don't see this being any less effective than crimp connectors. In fact, there is probably a greater margin for error with the crimp connectors than there is with twist/solder/heatshink.

 

[j666bed]

having thought about what has been said regarding solder, surely if you use flux, decent soldier and enough heat you will not see any problems, if your engine is running at enough heat to melt solder I think you would have more of an issue there! also regarding solder in engine bay etc, the 172 ECU is mounted in the engine bay, all of which is connected with solder?

 

[Ian_s]

Please listen to Matt. I've also had it drilled into me by an (ex motec) lecturer and another who also happens to be the Juno founder, they know what they're talking about!

 

[Jaff.]

how can crimping be worse than soldering? crimp and heatshrink, job looks just as tidy and more secure

 

[Cup_Phil]

Crimps come loose..

 

[Cup_Phil]

having thought about what has been said regarding solder, surely if you use flux, decent soldier and enough heat you will not see any problems, if your engine is running at enough heat to melt solder I think you would have more of an issue there! also regarding solder in engine bay etc, the 172 ECU is mounted in the engine bay, all of which is connected with solder?

Once soldered they should be in proper heat wrap anyway. There's far more chance of a crimp coming loose than there is of a proper soldered joint with heat shrink coming loose
There's a reason standard car manufacturers use soldered joints

 

[Jaff.]

Crimps come loose..

not if youve crimped them properly in the first place...

standard car manufaturers use it because they have machines to do it for them. its easier to have a machine solder than crimp

 

[.Kev.]

Theres nothing at all wrong with soldered joints in engine looms - if done by a proper electrician that knows what he's doing

For 90% of us though - yeah it's a bad idea lol

This,

Most of the wiring on our jets has solder in somewhere and they vibrate like f**k, pull massive G and operarte in extremes of temp.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yup - I know a few electricians, RAF electricians and motorsport engineers - all use solder, never had a complaint
But I've seen the soldering done by them and it is WAY beyond the skill level of me in my garage. It looks like factory wiring!

Crimps feel dirty to me - and you end up with big bulges in the wiring - if you're splicing looms it looks horrid

 

[Jaff.]

i feel the same but it does the job...

 

[mike1pow]

I would choose a soldered joint over a crimped one anyway!

Working on aircraft, most connections are crimped but the crimps themselves are very complex making excellent mechanical and elecrical connections. For the home mechanic though, soldering would be the best bet

 

[rich-6]

Used with heatshrink spliced into each other i cant see there would be a problem, Its the muppets that butt two wires up, solder them and wrap them in tape that cause the problems

 

[Jay Payne]

Crimps come loose..

We use heat shirnk crimps. Crimp it together, then heat it up, it shrinks around the wire and makes a water tight joint

There's a reason standard car manufacturers use soldered joints

And theres a reason solder isnt used in pro-motorsport (yes ECU's are full of solder but its in a fixed point not being flexed like a loom)

Just passing on knowledge given to me by an eniginner with F1,Btcc experiance

 

[Icarus]

Here we go again!

Solder is for PCB's not for wire to wire joints!

Solder is not vibration tolerant on wire to wire joints.

Soldered wire to wire joints in high vibration enviroments will fail eventualy.

Soldered joints are often over temped during soldering which fatigues the wire either side of the joint leading to failure.

The Raychem crimps shown above are perfect for the average user, they are crimped wth a specific tool then heated at which point the adhesive lining the crimp melts and the crimp outer shrinks to form a strain relieved sealed joint, this joint is stronger than the rest of the wire it is in!

The advanced way is to use a thinwall raychem uninsulated crimp which when crimped with the correct die forms an extremely strong wire to wire connection. This crimp then has a specific adhesive lined heat shrink shrunk over the top of it which again strain relieves the joint and seals it. This wire to wire joint is smaller, more compact and massively more reliable than a solder to solder joint.

Regarding solder on aircraft that's an even bigger mine field. Solder connections into Cannon plugs etc. are potted i.e. sealed inside a solid epoxy block, it's also worth noting that these joints are into rigid connectors not wire to wire. Wire to wire solder joints are generally not considered air rated. AC 43.13-1 lists various issues with solder and why it should not be used for wire to wire.

Oh and Fuzzy absolutely no OEM in the world uses soldered wire to wire joints/transitions also every plug type connector on a loom in a production road car today is crimped. Crimps do not come loose either unless you're some sort of fuckwit trying to joint two wires with a 3 pence shitty halfords special crimp using a pair of pliers!

 

[Fred@BTM]

i have a loom at work "pro built" with bullet connectors holding the crank sensor on, car was never reliable - wonder why.................

i recall Matt saying there's about £100 worths of crimps in a TDF clio loom

 

[Jay Payne]

yea, what Matt said. :approve:

Makes sense to me

 

[Cup_Phil]

Oh and Fuzzy absolutely no OEM in the world uses soldered wire to wire joints/transitions also every plug type connector on a loom in a production road car today is crimped. Crimps do not come loose either unless you're some sort of f**kwit trying to joint two wires with a 3 pence s**tty halfords special crimp using a pair of pliers!

Really? Half the rear loom of the clio I just stripped is soldered wire to wire... ?

You know a LOT more about ecu's and wiring than me - but from experience solder is fine

I know a company that have done over 50 106 16v conversions and solder all the loom splices - these cars have been running on track for years without fault.
The loom in my clio also has soldered wire to wire joints - no crimps. Worked fine for the last 8 years

 

[Fred@BTM]

well there's the difference between a motorsport pro and a tuner, so endeth thread

a loom that controls tail lights and speakers isn't an engine loom

almost comparable to welding, you can MIG weld an exhaust together and it'll be fine, but if you TIG it, its just better

 

[bomber]

The crimps and hest shrink etc that I used for my engine loom (suggested by Matt, for me on a budget) cost less than £10, I use solder at work every day but that's in electric components and small handsets that don't get the abuse of an engine loom, And more to the point, soldering the joints is harder than crimping and heat shrinking them anyway

 

[j666bed]

well cheers for the advise, im gonna solder and heat shrink, will let yo know if/when it fails.

 

[Dan1587]

Solder is not as good as these heat shrinks, as long as you don't over crimp them, for example don't use the red crimping tool on a blue heat shrink because it will break the material and cause it to corrode.
And its been proven that something in the solder can dry up and give you a dry connection.
Heat shrinks < solder!!!
Heat shrink is so much easier aswel, none of the crap that some with soldering.