Looking at 172 PH1 tommorow

[Empathic]

Hey guys,

I'm hoping you can help.

I'm going to look at a 2001 172 PH1 tommorow and would like to know if this sounds 100% legit to you. It's only up for £1800 so I want to be sure i'm not buying a minger.

To cut a long story short, i've been exchanging emails between this guy for around a week now, and he seems nice enough to give me thorough and detailed honest answers.

I'll try to bullet point my concerns and questions before I make a post that is far too long to read:

1.) How much is the anual tax for a MAY 2001 registerd ph1 172? Parkers says £235 for 12 months http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/road-tax/?deriv=18491#manu=8219&model=724&deriv=18491 however the seller is claiming he paid £75 or so for 6 months tax not too long ago.

2.) The seller reports a 'common' engine mount problem every 20k or so miles where the exhaust rattes against the subframe, which needs unboliting and adjusting every 20k or so miles - is this indeed common and nothing to worry about?

3.) The seller bought the car from a garage 4 months ago with the intention of turning it into a track car; he since changed his mind and decided to spend money on his supra instead, when he bought the car the garage lost the log book and mot history (however it is viewable online) so the HPI check shows him owning the car 2 months ago whereas infact he's owned it 4 months. He has the current MOT cert of course, my question is - is this something to worry about? Lost documents? I done a standard HPI check but didnt want to pay an extra £20 checking finance too. He assures me that the cambelt was changed at 72k or so miles, but has no proof of this (its done 92k miles now) and assures me he wouldnt sell a car if it needed a cam belt without mentioning it - he can take off the cover and show me that the writing on the belt is still visable which is proof apparently?

4.) The car has done 92k miles, and I would like to keep it for life - how much life do these cars and engines have? I'm aware they are tempremental, but im talking about do they have bulletproof engines and generally rust free long term? I wanna get this baby and look after it.

Any other general advice about what to expect would be appreciated, being only £1,800, done 92k miles - I want to make sure it's not indeed too good to be true and i'm sure you guys can help me out with some general advice and answer to my questions.

Many thanks

 

[Invexis-]

£75 for 6 months tax, no way, surely not? £235 for the year is more like it... well what i pay (i think)
There's PH1 172's on here with 120k+ although they will have been looked after VERY VERY well There's also a Trophy kicking around somewhere with 170k on it

Just give the car a very good going over, a decnet test drive (not to the bottom of the street and back) , i dont mean to worry you, but just remember no matter how 'nice enough' the guy is, although he very well maybe, there are still some c*unts out there who would just play along to get rid of a 'shed'.

Good luck though

 

[172boost]

Simple answer to your thread - if you don't have proof of cambelt change then don't go anywhere near it! Unless he accepts an offer of £1200.

 

[Empathic]

Simple answer to your thread - if you don't have proof of cambelt change then don't go anywhere near it! Unless he accepts an offer of £1200.

He says he can prove it by removing the cover and looking at the belt itself as it still has the writing on it, also he's agreed to put in writing that if anything major goes wrong with the car in the first 6 months he will go halves on cost.

Do I still need to be concerned?

 

[Revels]

I'd avoid it mate. There is so many of them for sale, you don't have to take whatever appears.

As Mr Boost says, you want proof of that belt doing. I wouldn't really risk him signing something. But if the belt did go, that's bye bye engine really. So would probably cost you more to have someone fix than was economically viable.

With regards to the tax, the only way his tax is £75 is if it was originally a 1.2 or something and had an engine transplant.

Engine mounts are a common problem. Not sure about every 20k though. The exhausts are made from tracing paper and are a lot of the time replaced by aftermarket items.

 

[R-Sport.]

Hey guys,

I'm hoping you can help.

I'm going to look at a 2001 172 PH1 tommorow and would like to know if this sounds 100% legit to you. It's only up for £1800 so I want to be sure i'm not buying a minger.

To cut a long story short, i've been exchanging emails between this guy for around a week now, and he seems nice enough to give me thorough and detailed honest answers.

I'll try to bullet point my concerns and questions before I make a post that is far too long to read:

1.) How much is the anual tax for a MAY 2001 registerd ph1 172? Parkers says £235 for 12 months http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/road-tax/?deriv=18491#manu=8219&model=724&deriv=18491 however the seller is claiming he paid £75 or so for 6 months tax not too long ago.

2.) The seller reports a 'common' engine mount problem every 20k or so miles where the exhaust rattes against the subframe, which needs unboliting and adjusting every 20k or so miles - is this indeed common and nothing to worry about?

3.) The seller bought the car from a garage 4 months ago with the intention of turning it into a track car; he since changed his mind and decided to spend money on his supra instead, when he bought the car the garage lost the log book and mot history (however it is viewable online) so the HPI check shows him owning the car 2 months ago whereas infact he's owned it 4 months. He has the current MOT cert of course, my question is - is this something to worry about? Lost documents? I done a standard HPI check but didnt want to pay an extra £20 checking finance too. He assures me that the cambelt was changed at 72k or so miles, but has no proof of this (its done 92k miles now) and assures me he wouldnt sell a car if it needed a cam belt without mentioning it - he can take off the cover and show me that the writing on the belt is still visable which is proof apparently?

4.) The car has done 92k miles, and I would like to keep it for life - how much life do these cars and engines have? I'm aware they are tempremental, but im talking about do they have bulletproof engines and generally rust free long term? I wanna get this baby and look after it.

Any other general advice about what to expect would be appreciated, being only £1,800, done 92k miles - I want to make sure it's not indeed too good to be true and i'm sure you guys can help me out with some general advice and answer to my questions.

Many thanks

Tax is £120 odd for 6 months-

*) engine mounts / dog bone mount shouldnt need to replaced that often- especially if done correctly- Exhausts rattling are common- could be the exhaust or heat shield-- budget around £150 for a second hand one WCS-

*) Cambelt wise you are risking the whole engine without evidence of belts being done- the ol' had then done with no proof chestnut' doesnt cut any mustard-- Budget £600 for this especially if it needs a new dephaser-
The problme with showing you the belt is what about the rest of the change- the full cambelt kit, the auxilllary belt & the tensioners/ pulleys that go with it-

As for Finance- the finance situation is on the standard HPI check- you dont need to pay anymore- its either a yes no question-

Missing log book is only a problem if he hasnt got it now-- As long as its registered to him thats ok-

*) life wise- I guess these will run onto 160k if maintained correctly--

For 1.8k I wouldnt be buying that as to have good peice of mind you will be spending atleast £700 to get you started & that before routine work & then when all said & done you have a 95k car....

I would save your money & wait for a better low mileage one with proof of belts-

Pay your £10 membership & buy from the forum......

S

 

[16vfan]

keep looking m8 it all doesnt add up, and like its been said there are plenty to choose from

 

[Jimbo-Clio]

Steve is 100% correct bud there are alot of bargins out there best not to buy a dog unless you can do the work yourself mate

 

[Empathic]

How much does a cam belt change cost and why would someone put it up for sale knowing it would make the buyer a very pissed off man who knows where you live?

I guess I could pay for an inspection...

 

[Empathic]

Ahh I was getting my hopes up so much :-(

Was looking forward to owning that car...

 

[172boost]

How much does a cam belt change cost and why would someone put it up for sale knowing it would make the buyer a very pissed off man who knows where you live?

I guess I could pay for an inspection...

ball park figure £600.

 

[172boost]

Ahh I was getting my hopes up so much :-(

Was looking forward to owning that car...

There are soooo many around mate, keep looking and you will find a good one.

 

[Empathic]

There are soooo many around mate, keep looking and you will find a good one.

Not for my price range there isnt. 1.8k tops..

 

[172boost]

look at cars priced up to £2200 or so, people may accept £1800 cash. Plus there are cars out there for that money with FSH and cambelt.

 

[Revels]

Course there is..

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1969427.htm

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1769193.htm

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?523469-2001-X-clio-sport-172-phase-1%A31850

 

[Soot1e]

Clio 172's registered new after 1st. Mar are taxed at £235 for 12 months. As for the car it is nearly 10 years old and will always need something doing but hopefully not expensive items. Have a good look around the car as you would any other car to see if it has been looked after. As for the belts being done, who knows? Best to factor in the cost of having them done yourself and grind the vendor down on the price. He can't expect not to loose money when changing his cars so often, can he. Have a look at a couple of other cars in your price bracket then you get the idea of what you get for your money.

 

[Empathic]

I'd have to travel 100's of miles to any of these, I live on the south coast... not having a car at the moment I cant get that far you see.

Am really gutted tbh, all because of no proof in the cambelt being done...

 

[Rob]

People on here would be more than willing to help you find something in the south, or alternatively, travel a bit for a real lovely motor.

There's a thread recently on someone picking up a car and the belt going on the way home, you really wouldn't want that happening.

 

[Slinkey]

You wont travel over 100miles to get a motor you plan to keep your entire life? Be patient, the right one will come up. As for cambelt, 600 quid is a bloody rip off! I would say 450 max?

 

[R-Sport.]

Not being negative or disrespectful- 1.8k 'tops' means you are stretching the budget to buy a car- We have all been there- so im not getting on any high horse-
within the budget you need to provision for repairs & running costs-

I think you should save a bit more until you have around 2.5k under you belt-

If you stretch to be a car that on the cheap side with work to be done you will end up more out of pocket in the long run...

S

 

[poopipe]

People on here would be more than willing to help you find something in the south, or alternatively, travel a bit for a real lovely motor.

There's a thread recently on someone picking up a car and the belt going on the way home, you really wouldn't want that happening.

saraj right? in all fairness that had full history, proof of everything and so on, she just got some horrible luck rather than not being careful.

I'd say keep looking - I've managed to pick one up for a grand less than I thought I was going to have to spend to get a good one, it just took a bit of patience and a 150mile round trip

 

[Empathic]

Guys

I replied to him my concens and he offerd to get the jack and tools out when I get there and will remove the cover and show me it - is this enough?

 

[Revels]

Nope. I'd leave well alone.

Think of it like an elastic band left in the garden. It might be fine to look at, but when you go to stretch it..

 

[Rob]

FLOL at showing you the belt....

I assume you haven't look around the site that much yet mate, but basically, if the belt's aren't done by a specialist, they're almost always done wrong, the car may have had the belt done 4 years ago, and not done many miles at all, so could look new, but it'd still be wanting a new one.

It's just not something you want playing on your mind whilst buying a new car.

 

[Empathic]

ok thanks guys for the info, ive offerd him £1300 max but he wont take it.

I should be more sensible, I dont have a car at all at the moment and want something half decent - there is a 206 gti for sale in my area with proof of recent cambelt change, 82k miles some bodywork dents going for £800 - probably a more sensible option for my budget - 9 previous owners though in 10 years - another cause for concern? lol

at least with that i'd have a fair ammount put aside for repairs if need be..

 

[Empathic]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1960125.htm

how does this one look guys?

 

[Revels]

The wheels/lights/exhaust scream chav. Which would put me off instantly.

Keep looking..

 

[Empathic]

It's currently owned by south coast performance, and has had 2 previous owners...seriously, need to move on again?

 

[R-Sport.]

new cambelt? What about the rest of the elements that need changing on the 72k service

S

 

[Empathic]

new cambelt? What about the rest of the elements that need changing on the 72k service

S

Dont know, didnt think to ask... this is turning into a complete nightmare looking for a car!

 

[Bramley]

sounds dodgy

 

[Revels]

It's currently owned by south coast performance, and has had 2 previous owners...seriously, need to move on again?

Even more reason not to touch it. Some skint chav wanting to 'do up' his car, I can kinda understand. A company doing that? No. Just no.

The search continues..

 

[quango2k]

ffs I hate +1 forum spammers throwing their 10 pence in..

what's "dodgy" about lost paperwork? it happens all the time, its a bad thing but not the end of the world, if it had everything It would be up for sale at a higher cost.

the car came from a trusted source that auctions cars off all the time.. there were 37 people bidding on the car when I won. the company it came from is a storage company, they hold 1000's of cars for auctions, the site owners started buying cars from the auctioneers to sell themselves. the only problem with doing it is if the paperwork gets lost. finding them is the issue, they could be at any dealership in the UK sat in a filing cabinet somewhere.

if the car had most of the paperwork apart from the cam belt receipt I would walk away but all info was lost and this car is well looked after and at 92k miles it would be a lot more shabby if it was mistreated. I managed to get a duplicate service book after speaking to the previous owner I was able to trace where it was serviced and the dealer stamps go up to 60k, then they stop as the previous owner says it was too expensive to get done at a dealers so it was done at an independent garage near him in Gosport Hampshire then all other services were done by them as it was cheaper than the stealers.

the biggest pain in the arse was getting the V5, took over 7 weeks to finally sort, and in the process i managed to get the address of the previous owner and luckily he still lived there. if the car was mistreated in any way it would be evident by now, we all know how much of a pain sports can be and there has been nothing wrong with this car apart from the usuals (airbag lights...sorted after being on this forum) the rattle/knock when pulling away (sorted after someone on here suggested moving the engine mount forward) it was fine before I took the mount off to blast the corrosion off and re-spray the mount black...didnt know to move it back forward lol. had the heatshield rattle but just looked and it was loose (again fix was suggested from here)

This is my 14th car, 2nd clio sport, so I know a few things about them. I had it checked over when I bought it by Rentech in portsmouth, they had nothing bad to say about it ( I put it in for a brakes check as I thought i blew the MS after pushing the pistons back without taking the cap off...DOH..I painted the calipers if anyone is wondering why I wound the pistons back) I checked the cambelt myself when I painted the engine top mount as you have to take the undertray off, jack the engine up to hold it still and remove the cam belt cover..that was 4 weeks ago and the belt, tensioner and the accessory belt look new as well as the pulleys.

I know it is hard to trust people you don't know so that is why I offered £1500 and we will knock up a document essentially giving a 50% discount on any repairs due to wear and tear. I am saying this openly on a forum and I will sign anything to say the same, i'm not a dishonest person so I don't mind any checks being done at all. I have done all the HPI checks before I bought the car and can show them all. I would have no problem with paying half of any work that needs doing. I am part of the Seward Renault prestige club so any parts needed I can get a 10% discount.

The car has the original manuals and keys as they were kept in the car at the auction site so are included.

I understand the scepticism, I was in the same boat and am with every car I go to see but after the inspections and the 2 hour inspection I did on the car I was happy that the engine, transmission and running gear were OK for me to strip and run as a track day car.

I'm happy for anyone to come along and inspect the car as you will get the same results as I did. If I didn't have the supra I would have kept it and got it in the garage for track prepping.

 

[Rob]

It's your car, isn't it...

 

[ABOO]

PM Gaz mate. He's currently got one sorned with loads of history if I remember rightly . Is North of the border, but what a drive home to spend some quality time together!!!!

Apologies if he's sold it and I missed it!!!

 

[quango2k]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1960125.htm

how does this one look guys?

17k miles less than mine, 900 quid more, been chavvified, probably ragged by some nipper.. if you went with something like that you would be buying new wheels within months (a good 5-600 squids) a new exhaust as that one looks shite (350-450 quid) and putting the orignal lights back on costing more...

for 2400 you could have bought mine, got the cambelt changed for your assurance, a new clutch and a full service lol so that would make no sense at all! lol

 

[Revels]

In one post you're blaming people for making assumptions about your missing paperwork and in the next you're saying a car has 'probably ragged by some nipper'. Brilliant.

Yes, things do get lost. That's life. But I wouldn't buy something valueable and important without it's more important bit of service history. If you were selling something rare and it was cheap, then yeah. But it's a Ph1 172. There's thousands of them. It's neither rare nor cheap.

Yours, nor the badly modified one are the best. He'll find far better if he keeps looking.

 

[quango2k]

In one post you're blaming people for making assumptions about your missing paperwork and in the next you're saying a car has 'probably ragged by some nipper'. Brilliant.

Yes, things do get lost. That's life. But I wouldn't buy something valueable and important without it's more important bit of service history. If you were selling something rare and it was cheap, then yeah. But it's a Ph1 172. There's thousands of them. It's neither rare nor cheap.

Yours, nor the badly modified one are the best. He'll find far better if he keeps looking.

so he will find better in the south of the UK for less?? you find one..i'll have that one too.

im not blaming anyone, the assumptions annoy me.. mine has been looked after, that other one has clearly been owned by a younger chav type. There were two previous owners to me, the last one had it from 40k miles...why would he spend money on a car and run it up to 92k miles ( almost 20k past the suggested cambelt change period) thats just pushing luck and other things would have gave out by now.

 

[Empathic]

ffs I hate +1 forum spammers throwing their 10 pence in..

what's "dodgy" about lost paperwork? it happens all the time, its a bad thing but not the end of the world, if it had everything It would be up for sale at a higher cost.

the car came from a trusted source that auctions cars off all the time.. there were 37 people bidding on the car when I won. the company it came from is a storage company, they hold 1000's of cars for auctions, the site owners started buying cars from the auctioneers to sell themselves. the only problem with doing it is if the paperwork gets lost. finding them is the issue, they could be at any dealership in the UK sat in a filing cabinet somewhere.

if the car had most of the paperwork apart from the cam belt receipt I would walk away but all info was lost and this car is well looked after and at 92k miles it would be a lot more shabby if it was mistreated. I managed to get a duplicate service book after speaking to the previous owner I was able to trace where it was serviced and the dealer stamps go up to 60k, then they stop as the previous owner says it was too expensive to get done at a dealers so it was done at an independent garage near him in Gosport Hampshire then all other services were done by them as it was cheaper than the stealers.

the biggest pain in the arse was getting the V5, took over 7 weeks to finally sort, and in the process i managed to get the address of the previous owner and luckily he still lived there. if the car was mistreated in any way it would be evident by now, we all know how much of a pain sports can be and there has been nothing wrong with this car apart from the usuals (airbag lights...sorted after being on this forum) the rattle/knock when pulling away (sorted after someone on here suggested moving the engine mount forward) it was fine before I took the mount off to blast the corrosion off and re-spray the mount black...didnt know to move it back forward lol. had the heatshield rattle but just looked and it was loose (again fix was suggested from here)

This is my 14th car, 2nd clio sport, so I know a few things about them. I had it checked over when I bought it by Rentech in portsmouth, they had nothing bad to say about it ( I put it in for a brakes check as I thought i blew the MS after pushing the pistons back without taking the cap off...DOH..I painted the calipers if anyone is wondering why I wound the pistons back) I checked the cambelt myself when I painted the engine top mount as you have to take the undertray off, jack the engine up to hold it still and remove the cam belt cover..that was 4 weeks ago and the belt, tensioner and the accessory belt look new as well as the pulleys.

I know it is hard to trust people you don't know so that is why I offered £1500 and we will knock up a document essentially giving a 50% discount on any repairs due to wear and tear. I am saying this openly on a forum and I will sign anything to say the same, i'm not a dishonest person so I don't mind any checks being done at all. I have done all the HPI checks before I bought the car and can show them all. I would have no problem with paying half of any work that needs doing. I am part of the Seward Renault prestige club so any parts needed I can get a 10% discount.

The car has the original manuals and keys as they were kept in the car at the auction site so are included.

I understand the scepticism, I was in the same boat and am with every car I go to see but after the inspections and the 2 hour inspection I did on the car I was happy that the engine, transmission and running gear were OK for me to strip and run as a track day car.

I'm happy for anyone to come along and inspect the car as you will get the same results as I did. If I didn't have the supra I would have kept it and got it in the garage for track prepping.

The guy appears genuine, I mean.. if he wanted to flog a shed I doubt he would be putting this much effort into justifying the reason for sale.. which of course is making my decision more difficult.

We have exchanged at least 20 emails often being longer than that post relating to info about the car, he does seem genuine and my heart is telling me there is nothing to worry about.

I can understand the 'dont buy it without x' mentality as generally speaking it can help you to avoid a load of trouble, but I wouldnt expect such a thorough and helpful attitude from someone who would want to rip me off.

So, my question is... if we write up some kind of document to say he would cover half expenses if something did happen then do I really have a leg to stand on if something does happen? What can I do what are my options to 'secure this deal'?

It's just the right price, the right car and close to me it's really really appealing and the guy seems to know his stuff so i'm not easily going to brush this off as a con however I want to know my full list of options with regards to a private warrenty etc

Thanks guys

This is certainly at least interesting to discuss, and I'd like to make my mind up by tommorow.

Marc

 

[R-Sport.]

LOL @ the response from the owner-

Auction car - no history, 95k - not 'quite sure' on the cambelt side- If I asked myself the question of would I buy it 50 times I would come back with the same answer 50 times- NO

As revels has said its not rare - there plenty around- & some especially cherished ones on here- plus when the OP comes to sell it unless he spends the money for belts etc then he cannot prove the SH, & that puts 99.9% of people off- the car will be worthless

Problem is 'quango- dont know your name) the value of a car is classified not just by appearance & condition- but by documented service history, number of owners & so forth-
If the SH is missing & in this case its the vital cambelt service then you will lose value on the car-

THe summary in my old 'CAP' Guide states
" cars without verified mileage or documented full service history are often valued at below average CAP as opposed to CAP clean"

Ive dug up my old CAP book from last sep & the difference in price on a Y plate 172 was £800 from CAP clean to CAP below ave where yours sits-

In the current climate the base car with FSH on 95k would fetch around 1700/1800 in GOOD nick-

THe fact that you cant validate the history past 60k & cant validate the belt service renders your car at around 1k-1200 quid.... & unfortunatly just because there has been an inspection is meaningless in terms of 'value'

Which is what I think the OP offered.......

as ive sold the best part of 50 Clios in the last year I think my forum 'spamming' is at least a bit worthwhile...
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7586/black182032.jpg

S