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Lotus Elise’s (and Cup’s)





Spent the day testing some elises, both S1 and S2 and it confirmed what a fantastic car the elise is! The S2 is much more usable as a everyday car but the S1 is superb, very race car like and just great great fun!

Clio content bit... Compared to my Cup I doubt there is much in it pace wise, the Cup would eat it up at speeds over 80 - 90 but up to 60 the elise would have it I think. Balance wise the elise is miles better but the grip difference between the two is not that great. I think the Cup will slide before the Elises rear lets go but again point to point there would not be much in it. I guess that proves how good the Cup is, though it is nowhere near as subtle. Where the Cup cannot compete is in the experience, the Elise is miles more exciting and the driving position is spot on which is something the Cups is not.... All in the Cup gives a good account of itself.

The net result of the testing is that I am going to buy an Elise as my everyday car which means for certain the Cup is going, which will be kind of sad... If anyone is interested it is up for sale, PM me for more details etc. When it is gone Ill keep an eye out for Cliosport stickers round Oxford way to test against!

Twit
 


what plannet you on now.

\I drive both and you can take bends 20+ mph quicker in the elise easy.

round the track i over take cups like there standing still.

most elises do the ton in about 16 seconds which is also quicker.

so all this 80-90mph talk is crap.


quote
"I think the Cup will slide before the Elises rear lets go but again point to point there would not be much in it"

the elise is a very hard car to drive fast and people who do test drives do not know how quick it can corner or handle.

if you buy an elise get some driver training otherwise you will stack it.
i am not being cocky i spun mine twice in the first month and was lucky.
most people do spin them in the first week of ownership be careful.

If you live in the midlands i will take you out in mine and show you what it can do and how much faster than a clio it really is.

ttfn

MrD http://www.s2elise.co.uk/lls/frontside.jpghttp://www.s2elise.co.uk/lls/frontside.jpg
 
  S2000


"so all this 80-90mph talk is crap"

NO its not crap, the 0-100 time of the Cup and the Elise are more or less identical, the elise is about 1 second quicker to 60, so you can conclude that the Cup is quicker 60-100. I also would have thought given the hp deficet, that the Cup would have it after 100.



P.S Theres no need to take such an aggressive attitude!

"what plannet you on now"
 
  S2000


BTW Mrdemon,

Have you actually driven a Cup, never mind over taking them on the track. The difference between your 172 and a Cup is marked, when it comes to cornering grip! I couldnt quite beleive the difference the first time I went out in my bros Cup!
 
  mk2 172


well i raced my mates modded elise and overtook him after the tonne in my standard williams, after id done a few little bits he wouldnt race me cos he knew id reel him in and pass him
 


Mr Demon

I stand completely by what I said, there is no doubt the Elise is quicker to 60 - 80 ish but after that the Clio will catch it fairly quickly. Handling they are different FWD Vs RWD and as everyone knows a good RWD car will normally outhandle a good FWD car.

When I bought the Cup I downgraded having owned some fairly serious RWD kit, the Cup was bought mainly because my job entailed a fair bit of trundging round cities, that is not the case anymore so I can go back to machinery less suited to crawling round towns. You are right to say get tuition if you have never driven RWD sports cars, I have - I have owned significantly more powerful kit than the elise. Also whilst not being cocky I like to think I can make useful comparisons with a fairly clear head and without prejudice hence I said that I thought the Cup was not far short of the elise. Finally I have been on a track with elises and I can assure you they did not pass me like I was standing still! Round a track they can be quicker but a lot of this is to do with the driver.

In the main I agree with you! Overall the Elise is the better car, though the Cup and the Elise are very different cars, but the Cup is good. If I want big power I just use the 964 RS....

Twit
 


Horses for courses!! ive got three kids not much else out there for 12k that will carry 5 of us and have that much speed/handling.
 


Spot on, could not agree more! I have no kids a wife with an A3 turbo, we dont need two hatches as everyday cars. If I had kids the Cup would definetly be staying!

twit
 


My mates raced an Elise in his 2ltr N/A Nova and got past it quite easily (in a straight line), this performance was identical to my slightly modded willy engined valver.

Different story now, cos the novas turbod n can outpace 300bhp EVOs :p
 


Gord R

That one looks very nice, though the mileage is a wee bit high... Do you know if it is still available? I cant really buy one until the Cup is sold as we have not got enough space left on the drive and garage! If I bought one well end up with 5 cars at home and one in a garage away from home, which is to much! My wife will not be happy.

Just got to sell the Cup, it is on Autotrader now but there are a lot on there... :(

Twit
 


Ive both standard and modded Elises and my cup present cup is quicker than my S1 (118bhp) standard Elise was. Maybe off the line with a good driver the Elise would be quicker but not by much. I have also driven both on track several times and again i think that an average driver would be quicker in the Cup. Maybe a sh*t hot driver would lap slightly faster in an Elise but again not by much!!

Anyway that my view from experence...........
 


YOu have to go in a elise to just see the corner speed you can take.

Yes a avarage driver will be quicker in a cup as the elise is hard to drive quick(hence driving tuition).

yes the cup will have it above a ton but where do you do 100mph +??

also just like clios most people do not have 118hp standard elises.

most are 150 hp+ and do sub 15 seconds to a ton.

and once you can drive an elise not much will keep up.

I have lost 2 races 1 to a GT2 and the other to a 360 every thing else just gets swallowed up.EVOs and scoobys inc.

so i stand by every thing i said in my first post too :).

the only thing i must add is i have not driven a cup only a 172 but is it that much faster???? not 20mph faster thats for sure.

And they still look like there standing still at donnington track days.

I am not slating the cup is a fantastic car just its no elise :)
 


ive been in an elise round lotus test track and it was perfect. ive never been in a cup or 172 before, so i cant really compare the two
 


gave me Interesting to hear your post twit as i also have a clio cup which i think is a fantastic car. But yesterday a friend let me have a drive of his exige WOW is all i can say the sensation of all the package was amazing you just do not want to stop driving it. Anyway after about an hour of driving i jumped back in the cup and it felt so uninvolving compared to the lotus, so much so i have also thought of having a test drive of an elise and selling the cup. I must say though that i stiill think the cup is a fantasic car and great value for money, but the experience of driving the lotus great satisfaction.:)
 

zedx19

ClioSport Club Member
  Golf GTi DSG


Have I missed summit on this thread? People comparing the Cup to the Elise si what it sounds like! 13k vs 25k+, of course the Elise is gonna be more involving, faster round track, better handling etc etc etc, you get whats you pay for!
 


Drive an elise, it is great fun!

I have / had exactly the same thoughts, the Cup (which is a very sharp, very grippy and overall great car) felt a bit boat like by comparison! That said living with an elise day-to-day will involve some committment and it may cost more to keep on the road if not to run!

Go test one and see what you think but get a good long test drive! I am looking at more mid week with a view to buying this week if I can get the right deal :)

Twit
 


As i think zedx19 is trying to point out its a bit of a silly comparison. The elise is better in every way driving wise to the cup because it is uncompromised. The cup mixes practicality and value for money with good performance and a tidy chassis. I dont think it has any challengers.
 


Twit,

Couldnt agree you more! I too have owned significantly faster RWD cars than the Cup and driven an Elise on the track. Whilst the Clio IS a fantastic car, the Elise is so much more involving, saying that however the Elise was and still is double the price (new) of a Cup.

Often on these forums people get very protective of their cars and then try and defend them by the positives. Lets face it gentlemen all cars have strengths and weaknesses. I defy anyone to buy a new car at the Cups price which can provide such fun, speed and handling ability.

My Cup is a weekend thrash and trackday car and I too have considered selling for an Elise, just the other day. Now before everyone starts going mad! I think there is an explanation for this and also a reason why there are soooooo many Cups on the market. Because the Cup is so cheap I think that owners are buying them and either taking them on the track or hacking round country roads and really enjoying themselves. This in turn is raising a question for us owners "I like these track cars, I like them alot! How about I buy an even faster track car, harder suspension, quicker (not top end) so I can be even more focused".

Some of you may disagree with this but I promised myself & the other half that the Cup was the last in a long line of cars, but I want even more focus. Truth is I wont sell the Cup as I really love it, I have a warranty, it is cheap to run and can really frighten people in "faste" more expensive machinery.

No question the Cup is great, but it does have its faults, not to mention the lack of track options which were promised, which I think is also driving owners to selling.

Am I right?????????????????



Lastly, I am a new member and find the sight really good but all people ever talk about is straight line speed, do people corner quickly? If you want go fast in a straight line, buy a bloody motorbike! Anyone, and I mean anyone can put their foot down, but it takes balls to corner at the edge of adhesion.
 


This is going to be incredibly anal sounding, but for one can we concentrate on the car vs car.

Not VFM potential and all roundedness. thats all we ever seem to argue with the clio.

The Elise is jsut a better car, full stop. i love my clios, but see nowt wrong with admitting that there are better. even those with less bhp.
 


Quote: Originally posted by ClioCupMiester on 31 March 2003


Twit,

Couldnt agree you more! I too have owned significantly faster RWD cars than the Cup and driven an Elise on the track. Whilst the Clio IS a fantastic car, the Elise is so much more involving, saying that however the Elise was and still is double the price (new) of a Cup.

Often on these forums people get very protective of their cars and then try and defend them by the positives. Lets face it gentlemen all cars have strengths and weaknesses. I defy anyone to buy a new car at the Cups price which can provide such fun, speed and handling ability.

My Cup is a weekend thrash and trackday car and I too have considered selling for an Elise, just the other day. Now before everyone starts going mad! I think there is an explanation for this and also a reason why there are soooooo many Cups on the market. Because the Cup is so cheap I think that owners are buying them and either taking them on the track or hacking round country roads and really enjoying themselves. This in turn is raising a question for us owners "I like these track cars, I like them alot! How about I buy an even faster track car, harder suspension, quicker (not top end) so I can be even more focused".

Some of you may disagree with this but I promised myself & the other half that the Cup was the last in a long line of cars, but I want even more focus. Truth is I wont sell the Cup as I really love it, I have a warranty, it is cheap to run and can really frighten people in "faste" more expensive machinery.

No question the Cup is great, but it does have its faults, not to mention the lack of track options which were promised, which I think is also driving owners to selling.

Am I right?????????????????



Lastly, I am a new member and find the sight really good but all people ever talk about is straight line speed, do people corner quickly? If you want go fast in a straight line, buy a bloody motorbike! Anyone, and I mean anyone can put their foot down, but it takes balls to corner at the edge of adhesion.
Sorry for the spelling mnistakes, got carried away.
 

zedx19

ClioSport Club Member
  Golf GTi DSG


Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 31 March 2003

As i think zedx19 is trying to point out its a bit of a silly comparison. The elise is better in every way driving wise to the cup because it is uncompromised. The cup mixes practicality and value for money with good performance and a tidy chassis. I dont think it has any challengers.
Yeh, thats what I was trying to say! lol, its like comparing a Nova against a 355 or summit, its just not like for like!
 


Just thought u would like to no i was filling up me little valver the other day when a guy came up to me and asked for a push! to my suprise it was a 3month old elise!! the guy was embarrased to say the least!



Any way i really dunno how u can compare a cup to an elise i mean the hp to weight ratio of the elise is much better. No matter how much we like clios we have to accept the fact that the elise is a pure sportscar. It just isnt in the same league.
 


I would definetly recommend everyone to have a go in an elise on track though, you wouldnt believe the speeds you can go around corners. Fab little cars.
 

zedx19

ClioSport Club Member
  Golf GTi DSG


Personally I couldnt see myself using the Elise to trundle to work and back in (60 mile roundtrip), its just not meant for that. Its meant for trackdays and some weekend fun. My mates got the right idea, got an elise as a weekend car which he only uses when the weathers nice, drives around in a normal 1.6 Focus in the week. Did have an XR2 before the Focus which he had for 14 years!
 


I could cope with having an elise as a daily runabout, ill just get the bus more. The blunt truth is i cant afford to own one though. The Cup is more of a realistic dream!
 


Oh dear, here we go again, what is better, Elise vs Cup???

What a load of old cr*p!

What we are talking about here is subjectiveness......, the, car, its style, its characteristics, the weather conditions, the time of the year and even THE DRIVER!!

Scenario 1: Its December the 14th, 0 degrees and its raining. Forget about my Impreza and Forester, what do I choose to drive, my Cup or my 190Sport Elise????? ANSWER: The CUP!!

What would be quicker point to point on a B road??? THE CUP

Scenario 2: Its the 30th June, a beautiful sunny day, 24 degrees. What do I choose to drive??? ANSWER: The Elise!!!

What would be quicker point to point on a B road??? The Elise

Do I like one car more than the other???? No... I love both the same for completely different reasons.

Its very much like trying to say,,, who is the better footballer; Rio Ferdinand or Michael Owen???? You can not answer the question unless you are given a set of subjective parameters to base you response on. If its being a defender, then its Rio; if its being an attacker, then its Owen.

Personally I love both cars, they are really quick in their respective manners and both handle fantastically well in their optimum conditions (i.e. people say the Elise handles the best,,, I say in the rain in Winter,,, no it does not!!)

So enjoy your cars, its great to try out as many cars as possible and in the past I had to sell one before I could buy another so I spunked a lot of money that I will never get back. I guarantee if you sold a CUP for an Elise, then after a few months you would get used to the Elise that the experience is now not so fresh now that you would first want to mod it, then would hanker for something else,,,, we all do that. I do, but today I am lucky that I can buy a car I want but do not have to sell the others.

I have not driven the CUP for 4 weeks now as my father in law has borrowed it and I can not wait to get back out in it. I sit at work thinking about driving it again, so does that mean that its better than my 190bbhp Elise or my 305bhp Impreza or my 250bhp Forester,,,, NO,,, but I still can not wait to get in it again. Its like getting a new CD, you listen to it loads and then get a bit bored with it. You dont listen to it for 8 months, then get it out again and its sounds as fresh as the day you bought it and you play it loads.

We all have the need for changing experiences, theres nothing wrong with that, but it does not mean that one cooking motor is absolutely better than the other, 24*7...

Just enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

172CUP
 


You mention price - but you can pick up a s/h Elise for a similar price as a cup - but having a warranty can be nice at times too!

The Elise is so much more of an involving drive though - much prefer it to the 172

Simon
 


I could eat Elises in my Mk1, 172, done, they are not that fast, plus many people who have them dont "drive" them at all. Cup Elise good race on raod or track.
 


TimO172.....

A question for you. You stated that "they are not that fast". Please tell me how you constitute fast???

Do you mean "fast" in a straight line?

Do you mean "fast" in a corner?

Do you mean a "fast" 0 - 60

Do you mean a "fast" 60 - 0

Do you mean a "fast" 0 - 100

Do you mean a "fast" 30 - 50 in 4th gear

Do you mean "fast" along the "Col de Turini" stage of the Monte Carlo rally in June (part of the French tarmac championship)

Do you mean "fast" round a dry Brands hatch circuit Indy Circuit in June?

Do you mean "fast" round a wet Donningtion in December?

As you are so assured that you have "eaten" so many Elises, please let us know the definitive terminology of "fast" as I am sure interested to find out?

Cheers,

172CUP
 


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