So the M3 wins then, more power than a 172 and an FRP put together FTW! lol
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Lovely "Custom" Ford Puma
- Thread starter Dan@M.A.D
- Start date
No its not the only thing, but its certainly a very noticeable one.
Drive a 1.6 clio and a 172 clio back to back and its definately the power that is the thing that you notice the most not the upgraded supsension or brakes etc IMHO
It even wins on specific output if you believe the 321bhp fairytale, lol
Had to offload the Toledo quickly, and after having the MX-3 I was sure that Japanese build would be a winner.
Strange how things pan out though, if I'd not bought the MX-3 back in the day, I was going to go and see a CR-X (not the convertible one), then I'd probably now just be a VTEC fanboi
VTEC engines are awesome, some of the best engineering in any road car. But IMHO CRX = fail
Indeed a fairytale regarding the 321bhp, though mine made 313 so near enough!
So case closed then surely?
Not sure which specific case you are referring to?
The case about the exclusivity of the FRP package.
So you're still saying it's all about power.
The first thing I noticed when I drove a 172 after owning my 1.2 was how quick it was and then how well it handled. This was due to the fact most of the time you start off your drive in a straight line it makes no sense.
The first thing I noticed about the Frp was how much quicker it was compared to my previous standard Puma. Of course the suspension is it's real party piece and that became apparent as it did in the 172.
Maybe it's because i'm not into big power. I've always prefered a better handling car to an outright quick one.
After your frankly crazy Trophy comment i'm even more surprised you write for a car mag.
How can you not be a fan of a car that is in your words "better" in some ways than it's lower model? It hasn't lost anything over the standard 182 so it's only improved surely?
Ah the xenons! The most important thing on a hot hatch iirc.
FFS get out of here and make a quiz!
E90 M3
How can "no its not the only thing, but its certainly a very noticeable one" be saying its the only thing?
Yes its very noticeable
yes, the power isnt the only thing.
I like both power and handling
You seem to be comparing a new trophy with a new phase 2, and ignoring cost, where as I am talking about the actual world we live in now where a reaonable phase 2 is 2k and a reasonable trophy is 4k, and both will need their suspension changing.
So if I have 4k to spend on a car, i'd sooner buy a phase 2 and put decent suspension on it, than pay 4k for a trophy thats got worn out suspension that used to be an asset but no longer is.
I just dont really think either of them are worth the premium, for me the money would be best spent on a 172 and then tweaking it.
Gally seems to be talking about new cars and ignoring the value, where as I am talking about in the real world now where they are secondhand and have a price.
I wouldnt pay the "exclusivity tax" on either of them when I can use the money to build a better car myself from a 172.
He keeps mentioning about being surprised I write for mags with my opinions, but he seems to be forgetting that the mags I have written for (like for example : redline, fast ford, total vauxhall) are all about buying secondhand cars and modifying them, so I dont see why its a surprise that I am of the same mindset.
BMW M4; S1000 RR
Some valid points from both sides here but I think you guys are going to go round in circles until you all get bored!
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Agreed, hence most of my replies are only during office hours, better things to do in my own time, lol
To be fair, the Bible even says the standard 1.7 Puma is a 5* car whereas the FRP is 4* ;-)
I looked at both when I was buying with a very good budget. I sensed that the Trophy was just a tad quicker and it had a conventional hatchback body, which was my preference at the time.
Not much in it though, although if (and I don't know the history) the FRP was well short of initial projections/expectations, then I can understand people's scepticism towards it.
I looked at both when I was buying with a very good budget. I sensed that the Trophy was just a tad quicker and it had a conventional hatchback body, which was my preference at the time.
Not much in it though, although if (and I don't know the history) the FRP was well short of initial projections/expectations, then I can understand people's scepticism towards it.
Providing the reader is incapable of forming their own opinions and base their entire life around teh teachings of Evo and/or Clarkson, yes
From my point of view its a better value basis for a trackday car.
As a straight "is this car better than the other" though, of course not, ford DID improve the puma, just not enoguh to justify the cost difference unless you are one of these saddo types who gets an erection over something being rare and therefore cant walk past a white dogturd without wanting to lick it just causes its rare than brown ones.
Actually a decent discussion and nice to see it hasn't turned into a slanging match for once.
I can see the point chip makes, Tiff Needell expressed similar sentiments, although he liked it, he thought it wasn't that much better than the normal Puma.
I can totally understand why gally talks a lot about it, he's got a car that is perfect for him. Not everyone will 'get' it, although I personally would still like to own one at some stage.
I can see the point chip makes, Tiff Needell expressed similar sentiments, although he liked it, he thought it wasn't that much better than the normal Puma.
I can totally understand why gally talks a lot about it, he's got a car that is perfect for him. Not everyone will 'get' it, although I personally would still like to own one at some stage.
If both were mint standard cars I'd take the Puma every time.
It was nowhere near worth £24,000 still doesn't change the fact that the press loved it over it's rivals. 172/DC2 to start.
Price imo doesn't matter. We're not discussing price. I could buy a £1500 M3 and make it a better car than a 172/Frp. Doesn't mean jack.
I have the Evo mag from when the car was released. Richard Meaden was one of the lucky Journos to fly to San Francisco and test the car then drive it again in Britain.
The mag is pretty much unbuyable now but I found a copy on ebay a while back. He properly got the car. The way he describes it and waxes lyrical about it showed what a great car it was then and in some ways, still is.
I actually spoke to him via email about after a chance tweet to him after reading the mag. He actually mentioned how he looked for one just before buying the 106 rallye they have now. They couldn't find the right example at the time but said he couldn't wait to pick one in future.
Of course this is just one journo but a very experienced one. I will scan/photo the mag at some point as it's a simply brilliant read from my pov of course and it might show people who haven't driven one what some of the fuss is about.
The point I was trying to make was hardly any Mag i've read reviews in commented much on the price. Imo that says a lot for the car. I hope I haven't come across as biased. I am an owner afterall, I just hate seeing cars shouted down unjustifyably imo. It's deserves to be stuck up for imo more so because it's often overlooked mostly due to the rarity. I hadn't even driven one before buying it as there wasn't one within 200 miles.
Price imo doesn't matter. We're not discussing price. I could buy a £1500 M3 and make it a better car than a 172/Frp. Doesn't mean jack.
I have the Evo mag from when the car was released. Richard Meaden was one of the lucky Journos to fly to San Francisco and test the car then drive it again in Britain.
The mag is pretty much unbuyable now but I found a copy on ebay a while back. He properly got the car. The way he describes it and waxes lyrical about it showed what a great car it was then and in some ways, still is.
I actually spoke to him via email about after a chance tweet to him after reading the mag. He actually mentioned how he looked for one just before buying the 106 rallye they have now. They couldn't find the right example at the time but said he couldn't wait to pick one in future.
Of course this is just one journo but a very experienced one. I will scan/photo the mag at some point as it's a simply brilliant read from my pov of course and it might show people who haven't driven one what some of the fuss is about.
The point I was trying to make was hardly any Mag i've read reviews in commented much on the price. Imo that says a lot for the car. I hope I haven't come across as biased. I am an owner afterall, I just hate seeing cars shouted down unjustifyably imo. It's deserves to be stuck up for imo more so because it's often overlooked mostly due to the rarity. I hadn't even driven one before buying it as there wasn't one within 200 miles.
Or feet they went under.
You've made me question myself for listening to journos. Bare in mind it's not 1-2 journos. I have about 4-5 mags from 2000/2001 with reviews on the Frp. Evo, Autocar to name 2. Maybe they're all wrong and you're right?The price is irrelevant if you're simply discussing the better car or the most special. You simpl pit it against it's rivals.
Lfa is 300k doesn't stop people comparing it to cars half it's price. The fact is the Frp was overpriced only because how much Ford spent on it. Look at the V6. How many garage top 5's has that made it into?
Lfa is 300k doesn't stop people comparing it to cars half it's price. The fact is the Frp was overpriced only because how much Ford spent on it. Look at the V6. How many garage top 5's has that made it into?
Chip answered that for you.
Of course the 1.7 is better. It's cheaper. Fit some suspension to it and it'll decimate all iirc.Well with 5 of them thats you well and truely sorted for during the week, but what do you fap to at weekends?
I'm interested in cars for what they offer me and how much they cost, the sort of mags you mention dont interest me personally much TBH as the people who write for them tend not to know much about how cars actually work or have any interest in modifying them to make them better and rarely have much of a take on what is good value or not either IMHO.
