Manifold Inlet to Clio Sport II Ph1 + camshafts 197 = results?

[Madea]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some tuned more powerfull manifold intake to my race car Ph1 and have few questions about other things like camshafts and 4-2-1 exhaust.

So first of all, in my car I have few modifies like full decat exhaust 2,5 inch + RS Tuner + v6 airbox and it gives me from stock few horsepower, I think now its about 180hp.
For race car and slick and to be more competitive with honda and bmw car I need some more power and grip of course. I need to be compete with 230hp honda civic and her r15/245 slicks... Belive me its making incredible time on circiut and its rly fast... But I belive I could get similar times with my Clio

So that was beggining and I'm looking for some parts which make my Clio more powerfull and more grip.
First of all I was thinking about manifold exhaust 4-2-1 (estimate pls the amount of HP which that part can give to my car). Second thing was air manifold intake like JMS or sthg like that. and the last thing was camshafts, I was thinking about 197 camshafts cuz other are too expensive for me unfortunatelly... I dont have enough money for CatCams or Shrick's... And pls estimate how much hp that modifies give to my car when I will applied that and then go to my friend who is makeing last thing like RS Tuner to make them work properly.

Next thing is steering, I have all Poliuretans on my car, on whole suspension and I have small angles on the wheels to make better handling. In back I have stay(I dont know if that is correct word) beetwen rear suspiension. And I am planning to make spacers for wheels (front 19 mm and back 15 mm - with small angles that could give good results on the track).

If someone got some parts which I am looking for like camshafts, manifold or some other goood parts for track pls contact me, I would rly like to buy them in good price

Greetings
Maciek

 

[Ryanph1rs]

As for exhaust manifold there isnt really any gain on them the standard 182 one is better but its alot of hastle to change. The jms rs2 inlets are good but are about the same price as cams... these cars are alot of money to tune even an extra 15bhp will cost 1200 in the form of cams fitting and a map.... personally id buy some half decent coilovers.. a set of 2nd hand track tyres r888 or similar.... and get some 197 cams installed and see how it goes lots of possiblities with what you can do expect to spend close to £2000 though ...good luck with the car regards ryan

 

[marinemackay2003]

Race car as in competitive motorsport or track car ?

Gains are fairly hard / expensive to achive on this engine, you need to concentrate on handling IMO, a well set up car will be far quicker than an extra couple of Bhp

 

[Madea]

First of all, thank you for your replies.
Does nobody knows what results will be if I fit air inlet 197 and cams 197 - cuz that are the most available mods in my country, I mean the cost.

Rear suspension - Koni Sport + Eibach
Front - GAZ suspension

I think thats quite good setup.


And What you think about slick's - second hand of course. R888's are not so competitive with full slicks - its about 3-4 second on a lap. I was considering to buy some but I dont know which one 195 or 205 on width or maybe wider? But I think 205 will be ok, I need rly much grip on the track cuz it's rly tricky and its easy to land on grass.

So rly the 4-2-1 manifold isn't so good as many ppl said? I was thinking I will gain about 5-7 bhp with that. I was hoping to gain next 5-7 bhp from inlet 197 and cams 197...

 

[Dan@SJM]

Sadly 197 cams don't go in on standard timing. You have to know where to set them up to get the gains from them. 200bhp is possible with an RS2 inlet and 197 cams with a decent exhaust setup/

 

[tom172cup]

Race fuel?

 

[NorthloopCup]

A 197 inlet won't fit either if that's what your asking. Well, not without severe modifications to the ports anyway.

 

[Madea]

I am driving on normal 98 ultimate + I have ECU setup for 98 fuel.

Timing 197 camshafts is makeing by the ECU? On RS Tuner its available or I need to have ECU Master or sthg like that?

What do I need to change for 197 inlet, I can mill and sand things if I want I can suit 197 inlet to my 172 engine.

How the camshafts are timing and what do I need to change for the inlet. If somebody knows I will be very greatfull.
Or maybe there is some other air inlets which I can fit and its available from second hand/aftermarket place?

 

[Dan@SJM]

Timing of the cams is done when they are installed.

Inlet wise you want an RS2, which is quite rare over here to come up for sale, and when they do it's circa £1000.

 

[tom172cup]

Head needs doing cams rs2 inlet decent exhaust

 

[Madea]

Ok so topic of camshafts is done.

Now I need to know what about air inlet cuz RS2 is too expensive for me....
Is there any valuable inlet other than RS2 which can generate more bhp?
How about that 197 is tere sense to fit it, or gain will be unnoticeably and I need to look other inlet?

 

[Dan@SJM]

Tuning these engines isn't cheap.

 

[Madea]

Ok so thank you guys for all knowledge I will send some photos when I will fit all of this.

If anyone of you got some Air inlet(custom) or 197 camshafts to sell pls give me PM to me and we can talk about the price

 

[tom172cup]

There is another option to the rs2 that's going on my car I'm in the process of getting a flange made up

 

[bozothenutter]

To get anywhere near that 230Hp honda won't be cheap.
From what i have seen here on the forums: ITB's+cams and you'd need a ECU
just an RS2 will get you up to about 200Hp if you can find one and have a especially good base engine NorthloopCup is building a special engine with R2 bits that'll go to at least 230Hp
a turbo would get that figure easily and is about 3-4K?

all these mods would be a shame to put on a tired engine, so figure in the cost of a (partial) rebuild...


maybe you could just buy the Honda?

 

[NorthloopCup]

What do I need to change for 197 inlet, I can mill and sand things if I want I can suit 197 inlet to my 172 engine.

To get the 197 inlet to fit you have to drill and tap the 1*2 head to accept the 197 bolt pattern. That's the easy bit. Then you have to weld up the lower part of the 1*2 ports up to about halfway and you need to weld the inside of the port as well a good way in. Machine the gasket face flat and start porting to the 197 port height and shape. That's all assuming the head hasn't distorted from all the heat from welding though.
If you just try and open the ports out to match the 197 inlet you'll end up with HUGE ports. Pointless.

If you really wanted a 197 inlet, just fit a complete 197 head and inlet. That has other implications along the way though and you'll need higher comp pistons to suit.

If I were you I'd be on the lookout for an rs2 like dan@sjm and tom172cup are suggesting. The 197 inlet won't give the gains without supporting modifications. ££££££'s.

 

[Madea]

To be clearly, I dont want to get my engine to 230 bhp - I dont need that power. I just want to increase a bit my power to about 190-195 bhp to be more competitive

My engine is good base its after rebuild and drive about 2k km. SO its fresh and got good compression

Thank you very much NorthloopCup ! You help me a lot

 

[NorthloopCup]

To be clearly, I dont want to get my engine to 230 bhp - I dont need that power. I just want to increase a bit my power to about 190-195 bhp to be more competitive

My engine is good base its after rebuild and drive about 2k km. SO its fresh and got good compression

Thank you very much NorthloopCup ! You help me a lot

Get an rs2 mate if that's what hp you need. Combined with cams and your laughing.

 

[Alex Conway]

I would probably suggest selling the 172 and buying a 197 cup car

 

[bozothenutter]

Get an rs2 mate if that's what hp you need. Combined with cams and your laughing.

This...but still not cheap.
Some ppl did hit 200 with an RS2 and 197 cams (with special timing)
With the engine being fresh it should be possible.

 

[Madea]

I have red that I can fit the head of engine form 197 to my 172 and then get the inlet 197 and put the cams from 197 too, but the compression in the engine will be higher, am I right?
So pls tell what will be the cost of that mod's and what can I gain from that, I mean the bhp - but without timing. Unfortunatelly in my country nobody knows how to make the correct timing of 197 camshafts... Is there still any sense to make that without timing, is it still valuable and after mods I will see the difference before and after mods.

I want to remind that the car is for track and the engine is fresh, recently rebuild. It's being used on the track so I need every area of rpm both bottom and the top.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I have red that I can fit the head of engine form 197 to my 172 and then get the inlet 197 and put the cams from 197 too, but the compression in the engine will be higher, am I right?
So pls tell what will be the cost of that mod's and what can I gain from that, I mean the bhp - but without timing. Unfortunatelly in my country nobody knows how to make the correct timing of 197 camshafts... Is there still any sense to make that without timing, is it still valuable and after mods I will see the difference before and after mods.

I want to remind that the car is for track and the engine is fresh, recently rebuild. It's being used on the track so I need every area of rpm both bottom and the top.

To fit the 197 head onto a 1*2 block you need to drill and tap the cylinder head to accept an idler pulley like the 1*2 has. The 197 has the water pump driven by the cambelt so it's not there.
If you fit the 197 head onto a 1*2 block you'll end up with lower compression so you'd need the 197 pistons as well.

Cam timing will not need adjusting IF you use the 197 dephaser pulley. Effectively your putting a 197 engine in your car but retaining your original block. Then it's just a case of getting it remapped to suit.

Hp wise expect to see 190-195 ish. Cost wise I'd expect it to work out cheaper than sourcing an rs2 inlet, but that all depends on if you can find all the 197 parts. It's probably cheaper and easier to just buy a complete 197 engine and remove the bits you need.

 

[tomhunt85]

To fit the 197 head onto a 1*2 block you need to drill and tap the cylinder head to accept an idler pulley like the 1*2 has. The 197 has the water pump driven by the cambelt so it's not there.
If you fit the 197 head onto a 1*2 block you'll end up with lower compression so you'd need the 197 pistons as well.

Cam timing will not need adjusting IF you use the 197 dephaser pulley. Effectively your putting a 197 engine in your car but retaining your original block. Then it's just a case of getting it remapped to suit.

Hp wise expect to see 190-195 ish. Cost wise I'd expect it to work out cheaper than sourcing an rs2 inlet, but that all depends on if you can find all the 197 parts. It's probably cheaper and easier to just buy a complete 197 engine and remove the bits you need.

I know I'm bringing something back from the dead but assuming you did the above, does the 197 have a different water pump to the 182 and would you use the 197 cam belt instead of the 182 belt?

 

[NorthloopCup]

I know I'm bringing something back from the dead but assuming you did the above, does the 197 have a different water pump to the 182 and would you use the 197 cam belt instead of the 182 belt?

Yeah 197 has a different pump so you have to use the 1*2 cambelt as you convert the 197 head to this setup. It sounds far more complicated than it actually is. We are literally talking drilling and tapping the head to accept a bolt for an idler tensioner.