Manual Rack Conversion?

[MullyBaby]

Hi guys

I am wanting to delete my powersteering from my 182.

I have the PAS delete kit from puremotorsport http://www.pure-motorsport.co.uk/details.php?itemid=158

Will a 1.2 (non electric) rack be ok? I read that some people prefer the electric 1.5 dci rack but apparentley people lose steering feel?

What else is needed, is it just the rack, swap my track rods on to it and use the Pure Motorsport kit and all done?

I dont do a lot of town driving or parking (mainly b roads and motoway)

Cheers in advance.

 

[DannyR]

Why do you want to delete?

I think burp speed racing on here using the electric one so it can't be too bad.

 

[Bluebeard]

Burpspeed are using a saxo electric motor.

 

[MullyBaby]

Why do you want to delete?

I think burp speed racing on here using the electric one so it can't be too bad.

Well im getting rid of the AC anyway, plus the PAS high pressure pipe has gone again (last time cost me 300+ labour) and I cant be arsed with it anymore.

I only use my car for free-flowing journeys and track days, not really town driving so thought I could free up some more revvyness from the engine and get rid of the PAS leaks while im there.

What else would be involved with the electric rack? How do you tap into the speed sensor, motors etc etc?

 

[MullyBaby]

Hmm, think I'll drop Burp a PM then

 

[Bluebeard]

If you want to remove P/S completely (I have on mine) then just remove the pump and all the pipes, loop up the fluid holes in the rack and carry on as per normal.

Me and a friend made our own 'delete kit' and it costs less than £20.

 

[MullyBaby]

If you want to remove P/S completely (I have on mine) then just remove the pump and all the pipes, loop up the fluid holes in the rack and carry on as per normal.

Me and a friend made our own 'delete kit' and it costs less than £20.

Would that not be stiffer than the a dedicated manual rack? How has your's faired?

 

[Fred@BTM]

1.2/dci rack are the same thing

 

[Bluebeard]

Would that not be stiffer than the a dedicated manual rack? How has your's faired?

Mine is absolutely fine. Although it has probably only covered 5 hours of driving since I did it.

The only time it feels 'too heavy' is when doing a three point turn or paralel parking. Once on the move, it makes no difference.

 

[Ade T]

You can loop the rack as mentioned or loop with a T piece and run a overflow/breather.

 

[Bobby.]

If you want to remove P/S completely (I have on mine) then just remove the pump and all the pipes, loop up the fluid holes in the rack and carry on as per normal.

Me and a friend made our own 'delete kit' and it costs less than £20.

What did you use in this 'delete kit' ?

 

[MullyBaby]

Thanks for the ideas guys, tbh I like the idea of just bolting a manual rack straight on for the sake of £30 but just need to weigh up what people are saying about the electric rack being better as well...

 

[Chip-mk1]

Careful that you dont pick a manual rack thats more turns lock to lock, ruins the feel of the car for spirited driving.

 

[Bluebeard]

What did you use in this 'delete kit' ?

3 nuts and bolts, a 5 rib alternator belt from a motor factors (clios usually have 6 but they wouldn't fit) and an adjustable bar with lockable ends.

Can tension the belts as much as needed, and its a damn sight cheaper than whats on offer from the specialists.

 

[MullyBaby]

Careful that you dont pick a manual rack thats more turns lock to lock, ruins the feel of the car for spirited driving.

Good point, anyone know which manual rack is best to go for?

 

[Bluebeard]

If all you want to do is remove the power element of the power steering, why not just use the existing rack??

 

[Whiteley]

Remove pump and pipework as said, fill rack with fluid and loop the 2 ports on the rack. Ran mine like that for 3 years without any problems. Hard work at car park speed but good feel and weight on the move.

As Chip mentioned, a lot of racks that are meant for no pas have too many turns lock to lock.

 

[MullyBaby]

Well my hoses are leaking so can't really reuse them

 

[Bluebeard]

If you're removing PAS why do you need to re-use the hoses??

I'm so confused right now...

 

[Bobby.]

3 nuts and bolts, a 5 rib alternator belt from a motor factors (clios usually have 6 but they wouldn't fit) and an adjustable bar with lockable ends.

Can tension the belts as much as needed, and its a damn sight cheaper than whats on offer from the specialists.

Oh ok so where did you source all parts from?

I have been thinking about deleteing the pas and aircon on a 172 when I get one, I was thinking another way that you could do it possibly would be to find a Renault that has no aircon and no pas as std and take the brackets, pulley etc off that. Which makes me think does the f4r block have the same bolt hole pattern as k4* ? Because if it does it will give more options of engines to look at..

 

[Whiteley]

Looped rack:

No PAS or AC. Brackets from a base spec Mk1

 

[Jay Payne]

Or a Non Aircon Volvo 440 1.7 bottom bracket and a Laguna 1.8 8valve top bracket

 

[Fred@BTM]

still don't get why people do this, it ruins the car IMO (i'm putting PAS back on one of mine, its crap without!)

 

[Whiteley]

For me personally it was mainly the ease of putting the 172 engine in the Mk1 without all the ancillaries. If I had a Mk2 then I'd probably leave it in. Not saying what this chap should do, just offering a solution if he's decided he definitely wants rid.

 

[Tom]

still don't get why people do this, it ruins the car IMO (i'm putting PAS back on one of mine, its crap without!)

Exactly, it's one of its best features.

 

[Bluebeard]

still don't get why people do this, it ruins the car IMO (i'm putting PAS back on one of mine, its crap without!)

Because its something else to go wrong! Having owned 3 clio's where either the pump has gone or the hose has split, and facing the extortionate bill of fixing that issue, I decided it was best if its not there altogether!

 

[Chip-mk1]

still don't get why people do this, it ruins the car IMO (i'm putting PAS back on one of mine, its crap without!)

Agreed, especially on track, I went to quite a lot of trouble to take my manual rack off my ITB corsa and fit a power steering setup instead, as if you get into a bit of a spin and you need to get a lot of lock on very quickly to correct it, its much more likely you will manage to do so with power steering.

I remember a couple of years ago AG's focus up at TOTB lost about 2-3 seconds a lap when his power steering packed up!

 

[Tom]

Because its something else to go wrong! Having owned 3 clio's where either the pump has gone or the hose has split, and facing the extortionate bill of fixing that issue, I decided it was best if its not there altogether!

You can sort the hose issue by being friendly with pirtek or similar.

 

[Chip-mk1]

You can sort the hose issue by being friendly with pirtek or similar.

Not sure on the 172 but on my F7R williams engine I ended up having to go to renault for a new host as the threads werent something any of the local hydraulics places could match.

 

[MullyBaby]

Whitley, is that all that's needed? Just a pipe from one side to the other? Is it not stiffer than manual having to push the fluid around the rack as well?

 

[Bobby.]

Looped rack:

No PAS or AC. Brackets from a base spec Mk1

have you got a list of part number's that you used for the aircon and p.a.s delete?

 

[Whiteley]

Whitley, is that all that's needed? Just a pipe from one side to the other? Is it not stiffer than manual having to push the fluid around the rack as well?

Worked for me and plenty of others who've used this method. As said, can be hard work at carpark speeds but fine when you're moving. No problems correcting slides/lock to lock like someone mentioned (mine was purely a track car). I did re-do that loop pipe after the photo was taken. I left 5cm of the green pipe from each port, then put a flexible rubber one between the 2 jubilee'd on (no pressure there).

have you got a list of part number's that you used for the aircon and p.a.s delete?

Mine was all 2nd hand bits, so no luck on part numbers I'm afraid. The alternator brackets can come off various cars, R5/Mk1 Clio/Volvo as Jay says above etc. I did run a 5 rib belt (5pk858 from memory?) as a 6 fouls on the plastic cambelt cover.

 

[nightSpirit]

The dci electric rack is lighter than the stock or a hydraulic rack.

Weight saving is around 16 kg, less to go wrong, better driver feel on track, more power to the wheels...why would anyone NOT do this?

 

[mr.pink87]

The dci electric rack is lighter than the stock or a hydraulic rack.

Weight saving is around 16 kg, less to go wrong, better driver feel on track, more power to the wheels...why would anyone NOT do this?

Girly arms?

 

[MullyBaby]

Has anyone thought of looping the original rack like above but then running the electronic assist on the steering column instead?

 

[nightSpirit]

Good point, you'd have to always park it somewhere so that you can get up to around 40mph before turning the wheel...the A3 perhaps?

MullyBaby, what would the point of that be? disable one system and add a second? surely if you wanted to go electric you'd just do the whole lot!

 

[MullyBaby]

Good point, you'd have to always park it somewhere so that you can get up to around 40mph before turning the wheel...the A3 perhaps?

MullyBaby, what would the point of that be? disable one system and add a second? surely if you wanted to go electric you'd just do the whole lot!

You can switch the electric one on for parking only then turn it off I you wire it upto a switch, then when it's not on you're not sapping any power, and this way you keep the sport rack with the correct nnumber of turns lock to lock

 

[JACAM]

just found this old thread. . . I just pulled my PAS and pipes (182 track only car with PMS AC delete fitted). Used all the old ends to make bungs and a loop - did the whole job without removing the rack. Saves about 6kg including fluid. Havent been on track with it yet.