MarkCup's 2017 Ford Focus RS

[Al_G]

Don’t the FRS and new Mustang share the same engine?

 

[c4pob]

Don’t the FRS and new Mustang share the same engine?

The block yes, but the head is different which I think is where the problems are coming from.

 

[Al_G]

The block yes, but the head is different which I think is where the problems are coming from.

Do they run different poster outputs? How come they’re different?

 

[c4pob]

Do they run different poster outputs? How come they’re different?

Yes, from memory the RS engine puts out c.60bhp more than the Mustang engine.

 

[Al_G]

Yes, from memory the RS engine puts out c.60bhp more than the Mustang engine.

Ahhhhhh. I thought they were identical.

 

[MarkCup]

Here's an intersting take on the problem...and some links to information I've not seen before with a lot more detail on how/why something as simple as one hole on a Mustang gasket that the RS engine doesn't want/need can cause the RS engine to warp itself into oblivion.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...e/a14510137/ford-focus-rs-head-gasket-issues/

 

[CrippsCorner]

interesting video on the cause

Did not watch, but God damn those wheels look awful.

 

[leeds_182]

Matt farrah on the smoking tyre is getting proper defensive about it all on insta.

 

[Matt W]

Matt farrah on the smoking tyre is getting proper defensive about it all on insta.

I saw that, something like 3% of engines effected?

 

[Mr Plums]

I saw that, something like 3% of engines effected?

That should be a recall then iirc? Isnt it something like 2% limit?

 

[MarkCup]

Matt farrah on the smoking tyre is getting proper defensive about it all on insta.

It made me chuckle a little...I wonder if some festive cheer was behind his passionate posts!

I saw that, something like 3% of engines effected?

This is pure speculation based on a forum figure (which is hardly all encompassing) and a finger in the air figure of total cars sold. A straw poll of FRSOC suggests it's at least 5%.

That should be a recall then iirc? Isnt it something like 2% limit?

For a non safety issue is there even such a threshhold?

 

[MarkCup]

In other news my run-in is slowly progressing...and a small issue has surfaced, briefly...

 

[Ian_182]

Christ, i'd be starting to lose a little faith by now.

 

[McGherkin]

Are you allowed to use launch control whilst running the engine in?

 

[Mr R.]

After running in does it go for an oil and filter change?
You can only run an engine in with mineral oil, not synthetic oil.

400 miles is plenty and if the engine has already got synthetic oil in it then I don't see what you're running in?

All your doing is bedding the piston rings into the boars, that's it.

 

[MarkCup]

Christ, i'd be starting to lose a little faith by now.

Nah, I love this thing. It'll take a lot more to make me lose faith in it. I'm sure it's fixed for good now...I just wish I could get Ford to admit something although that is highly unlikely.

Are you allowed to use launch control whilst running the engine in?

I doubt it! I was sat in traffic when I did it...and had no intention at all of actually launching it...I was just trying to demonstrate the noise it makes as it holds revs at 5k...only it didn't and instead brap-brap-brapped off the limiter.

After running in does it go for an oil and filter change?
You can only run an engine in with mineral oil, not synthetic oil.

400 miles is plenty and if the engine has already got synthetic oil in it then I don't see what you're running in?

All your doing is bedding the piston rings into the boars, that's it.

Ford say 1,000 miles below 5k rpm and with no more than 75% throttle...so that's what I'm doing. It has whatever oil Ford put in it at the factory and will get a change after it's covered 4,000 miles as that's when the car will be due it's 12,500 mile service. Then everything will be in sync again with services every 12.5k.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

In other news my run-in is slowly progressing...and a small issue has surfaced, briefly...

Honestly I think you've risen to some of the horse s**t on here a bit too much. Think about it for a second. You're asking a car company to put in writing that a warranty claim will have fixed something indefinitely? If they wrote it, what good would it do you? I doubt it'd give you much extra advantage in the event of a 2nd failing.

So either you've been so inconvenienced by your new car and the service has been so bad tjat you want to return it (it's only failed once and they provided you with a replacement vehicle) or you're happy with a working car and if it did happen again you just put a few more miles on their Kuga.

 

[MarkCup]

Honestly I think you've risen to some of the horse s**t on here a bit too much. Think about it for a second. You're asking a car company to put in writing that a warranty claim will have fixed something indefinitely? If they wrote it, what good would it do you? I doubt it'd give you much extra advantage in the event of a 2nd failing.

So either you've been so inconvenienced by your new car and the service has been so bad tjat you want to return it (it's only failed once and they provided you with a replacement vehicle) or you're happy with a working car and if it did happen again you just put a few more miles on their Kuga.

I know I'm asking for the moon on a stick and I'll probably never get it. I certainly don't need it, I'm happy where I am right now and still adore the RS.

But it's fun to keep chipping away and if I ever did get anything from Ford it would be actual real internet gold.

 

[Ian_182]

Honestly I think you've risen to some of the horse s**t on here a bit too much. Think about it for a second. You're asking a car company to put in writing that a warranty claim will have fixed something indefinitely? If they wrote it, what good would it do you? I doubt it'd give you much extra advantage in the event of a 2nd failing.

So either you've been so inconvenienced by your new car and the service has been so bad tjat you want to return it (it's only failed once and they provided you with a replacement vehicle) or you're happy with a working car and if it did happen again you just put a few more miles on their Kuga.

When you buy the car new you get a cast iron 3 year guarantee that if it breaks it will be replaced. If there is a registered fault/re call that means a new engine its not too much to ask that you should get another guarantee it wont happen again.
Why shouldn't you, you've just spent the best part of 35k of your hard earned money. I do agree that it shouldn't be an indefinite warrantee but in my mind it should never have happened in the first place so they should be bending over backwards to assure every customer.
How they act now will be the way the customer behaves for their next purchase.

 

[c4pob]

After running in does it go for an oil and filter change?
You can only run an engine in with mineral oil, not synthetic oil.

400 miles is plenty and if the engine has already got synthetic oil in it then I don't see what you're running in?

All your doing is bedding the piston rings into the boars, that's it.

No, the run in period doesn't require an oil change. First required oil change is the first service. Didn't stop me though.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

When you buy the car new you get a cast iron 3 year guarantee that if it breaks it will be replaced. If there is a registered fault/re call that means a new engine its not too much to ask that you should get another guarantee it wont happen again.
Why shouldn't you, you've just spent the best part of 35k of your hard earned money. I do agree that it shouldn't be an indefinite warrantee but in my mind it should never have happened in the first place so they should be bending over backwards to assure every customer.
How they act now will be the way the customer behaves for their next purchase.

So by your logic if anything goes wrong on a car in warranty, you're then entitled to extended warranty on those parts?? Maybe if the engine was replaced at month 30 and the replacement went bang at month 37 (assuming a 3 year warranty) then you'd have something to complain about if they billed you for parts and labour. However most car companies are happy to part fund big losses like engines if the customer bought the car from them/had it serviced there etc for the exact reason you've stated.

Mark's already bought the 60 month warranty IIRC (?). What are they feasibly going to promise? That the engine won't have any more faults in its lifetime ?

 

[Ian_182]

They should at least give him warranty from the start again on those parts at least.
Christ poxy Vauxhall do a lifetime warranty/100k as long as its the same owner from new.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

They should at least give him warranty from the start again on those parts at least.

At least?

That's never been how warranties work chap. I'm just being realistic here, not trying to be the bad guy saying he should be grateful etc. I would probably be the same and trying to squeeze what I could out of the situation. But sometimes it's good to have perspective and most on here are saying the same as you. If Mark were an influeciable guy (he did buy an FRS as the result of CS after all) then he might be disappointed when they offer him nothing extra after months of chasing various departments.

 

[Ian_182]

I understand what your saying @Jeff simply and I agree, but i'd be "that" customer demanding the moon whether or not I got it.
Or if I was properly pissed I would reject the car and take my money elsewhere .

 

[MarkCup]

I understand what your saying @Jeff simply and I agree, but i'd be "that" customer demanding the moon whether or not I got it.
Or if I was properly pissed I would reject the car and take my money elsewhere .

The thing is, rejection is not an option, at all. If it failed within the first thirty days of ownership, absolutely it is, but at six months? I have to give them a chance to fix it, to remedy the fault...so I have, and they have. If it were to fail again, that's where it could start to get a little messy.

 

[Ian_182]

Hopefully its plain sailing now @MarkCup

 

[MarkCup]

Hopefully its plain sailing now @MarkCup

I'm expecting it to be.

The recent information suggests with quite clear evidence that looks to confirm that it really was as simple a f*** up as the wrong parts being labelled/sent/fitted with end result being a gasket specifically designed for the Mustang 2.3 fitted, in error, to the RS 2.3. The difference in the way the engine coolant flows around the RS block meant that fitting the Mustang gasket provided dead ends, hotspots, warpage, and a whole load of financial pain for a gasket supplier somewhere.

 

[Cookie]

I'm sure it's fixed for good now.

Think I will quote this

 

[Detail Chris]

I'm expecting it to be.

The recent information suggests with quite clear evidence that looks to confirm that it really was as simple a f*** up as the wrong parts being labelled/sent/fitted with end result being a gasket specifically designed for the Mustang 2.3 fitted, in error, to the RS 2.3. The difference in the way the engine coolant flows around the RS block meant that fitting the Mustang gasket provided dead ends, hotspots, warpage, and a whole load of financial pain for a gasket supplier somewhere.

Glad it’s going well for you Mark. I’m not too sure on the wrong gasket theory. It doesn’t really fit with Ford allegedly bringing out a fix/recall early next year. To me it seems as if they still aren't really sure what the problem is/was. A wrong gasket fitted would have been picked up straight away on the tear down back at Fords.
Ford’s may of course just recall all engines built between a certain period for new gaskets just to be sure. Suppose we just have to wait and see.
If that happens you have definetly had a result in getting a whole new lump!

 

[MarkCup]

Glad it’s going well for you Mark. I’m not too sure on the wrong gasket theory. It doesn’t really fit with Ford allegedly bringing out a fix/recall early next year. To me it seems as if they still aren't really sure what the problem is/was. A wrong gasket fitted would have been picked up straight away on the tear down back at Fords.
Ford’s may of course just recall all engines built between a certain period for new gaskets just to be sure. Suppose we just have to wait and see.
If that happens you have definetly had a result in getting a whole new lump!

It will have taken them a while to determine what was causing it, a while to understand how and why it happened, and a good while to get the party at fault to accept that they have to fund this entire mess, then a further while to be happy that they're genuinely doing the right thing commercially to come out with something like this, and a while to ensure they have adequate stocks and resources to handle it when they finally release some information to owners. It kind of all sits comfortably with me.

As far as what I got goes, I think there's many more out there with the wrong gasket fitted and an engine which could fail...but probably hasn't yet gone through enough heat cycles to make the warping casue coolant loss into the cylinders.

I think;

If they inspect, find the wrong gasket's fitted, and there's no evidence of leakage, they'll replace the gasket.
If they inspect, find the wrong gasket's fitted, and there is evidence of leakage, new engine time.

The bummer is for those that have the right gasket fitted but have to go through the pain of having their engines pointlessly stripped just to check. Of course that's if they do...Ford may well have been able to narrow the faulty supply chain down to specific batches of engines so the 'recall' could well be quite specific and targeted.

 

[Silent_Scone]

First I've heard about the wrong gasket as not been reading up. That's fairly horrific and no wonder the tolerances have been terrible. Bet someone has fouled their pants at Ford after they'd realised that.

Reminds me a bit of the Corolla Kompressor (although on a smaller scale as nobody with any sense bought them from new). I had heard they sold a few that evidently had no oil in the supercharger from the factory. I guess at the end of the day, people f**k up.

 

[MarkCup]

 

[-Jamie-]

Seen this on another forum

Ford will announce a Field Service Action (FSA) at the end of this coming week.
The FSA is to check and replace the Cylinder Head gasket on all Focus RS cars produced between August 3, 2015 and July 6, 2017.

Dealers are to pressure test the cooling system and replace the cylinder head gasket.

Based on test results, some vehicles may require a new cylinder head assembly.

This service must be performed on all affected vehicles at no charge to the vehicle owner.

 

[MarkCup]

Seen this on another forum

Yep. We're expecting something to be officially 'released' soon...exactly what it entails for everyone is still far from certain though...no one really wants to have their RS' engine dismantled! I think most would rather have a complete replacement.

 

[-Jamie-]

I'd take the new gasket, Whats to say the replacement engine doesnt have the same issues?

 

[RDH]

I think most logical people would let the car be repaired in whatever way Ford see fit and proper to cure the issue. Anyone who would walk into a dealership and say, ‘I don’t wan’t a recall fix, I want a brand new engine’ is a bit of a tw*t imo.

 

[MarkCup]

I'd take the new gasket, Whats to say the replacement engine doesnt have the same issues?

From what I can see here it looks like I have the latest gasket on my replacement November built engine. That suggests and supports the internet rumours that August onwards engines are all good...

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

This is a whole new level for RS owners isn't it? As well as arguing about the benefits of mudflaps, they can now compare pictures of head gaskets too 😂

 

[MarkCup]

...and make videos about them as well!

:blush:

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I wonder how much a video of a head gasket would earn you? I look forward to seeing a spreadsheet...