meggy 225 engine in a 197?

[spinky]

hi guys,

Just taken on a new project! (bare cup shell) And i was wondering if anyone knows how easy it is to fit a megane 225 engine in a 197? doing some research the top left mount looks the same, but i cant find out anything else as there both relatively new cars its very hard to find pictures/info on the other mounts/the subframe and hybriding! i do know the actuall gearbox is different, however the mounts may be the same..! i would put a normal 197 (F4R) or even a F4R-RS (205hp cup racer) engine and in, but not willing to pay £3kish for the engine and god knows for the box from renault or renault sport! and would rather start with a bit more power and have a bit more tunability anyways! not sure if anyone can shed much light on this, but any info/pics would be much appreciated!

also whilst i'm asking the awkward ones!, does anyone also know if the meggy front hub housings, hubs, calipers and driveshafts are the same? or can anyone get part no's of the above?

thanks
spinky

 

[geesus69]

i can't help with the technical info, sorry

but when you say you don't want to pay 3k for the RS engine an then box, how much are you looking at for a meggy 225 engine and box?

having a clio cup shell and putting standard engine and running gear (albeit from meggy 225) seems a backward step to me :S so you will tune the 225 engine, and by the time you have finished i bet you will have spent near enough the same amount as if you went straight for the F4R -RS and box?

i might be wrong here, but just my thoughts

 

[theduck]

225 lump will be more tuneable and need less maintenance than F4R-RS with the sequential box though...

 

[spinky]

For the past week i've searched for breaking 197's and i can't find nout!
Theres alot more meggy's breaking and alot more cheap second hand meggy 225 engines knocking around than 197 F4R engines(which i've found none! grrr!) and even more so; F4R-rs's engines!
So i'd rather drag it out and pay just over 1k for a meggy engine and box and have some money to throw at it tuning wise.

Added with the fact its a tad different, (and that the R26r now holds the fastest FWD ring lap!!!)
The other option is that I could go down the turbo route on the 197 F4R but that will take me well into the £10000's for just the engine alone,
Let alone sorting a descent gearbox out!!
I would love the sequential box from the cup but thats 6k alone!

I'd rather learn to use my right arm for the gears than pay that price straight away.. lol! :approve:

 

[geesus69]

ah right didn't realise 225 engine could be bought for that cheap!

i agree entirely on the basis that it's different, exactly why these things should be done, not for financial gain or to be practical, but just because you CAN :evil:

 

[spinky]

yeah, should beable to pick up one in the region of that if you shop around enough! obv theres some places that will be as expensive as new!!

 

[Gaz_]

I'm 90% sure the hubs/brakes etc are off the meggy. It has the same double axis wishbone set up. Imo it will fit. There is alot of room round the baulkhead area (for the turbo imo ) If you want any under bonnet pics just ask and i'll sort some this week

 

[spinky]

yes please gaz, any pictures you have would be of much much help! - cheers! If you could, drop me a mail with them, i'll pm you the address!

And cheers for the news about the hub, going to work on trying to get a p/n off a meggy hub assembly! if its the case that its the same, must try and work on getting some!!

 

[spinky]

anyone else got any more info on this topic?
ta

 

[traffmeister]

i would say if you got a 225 into the 197 shell it would be mint but if you was to tune a 225 what would you be looking ot get out of it bhp and ft-lb? i think this project will be amazing but costly! DO IT!!!

 

[ashy_gtt]

http://rtoc.sytes.net/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000586

some pics in here of a 225 conversion in progress on a R5, its not been anywhere near straightforward but its getting there! Mat may have more pics of the block before it went in but he has used a JB3 box on this conversion where as I guess you'd be using the 225 box?

 

[Jimbo_924]

For info on mounts, I'd say try Renault.

When I was at Uni, I looked at what OEM's were doing first to see how I could potentially improve/steal designs for some of my projects last year.

Porsche, VW, BMW and Vauxhall were all perfectly willing to print off schematic drawing of the parts/assemblies from the parts departments. I don't see why Renault Parts guys wouldn't do the same, as long as your polite (as I'm sure you would be) and friendly.

 

[theduck]

or get a copy of dialogies?

 

[Fred@BTM]

i've got a brand new megane RS gearbox in my garage, you can have it for £400

 

[spinky]

i would say if you got a 225 into the 197 shell it would be mint but if you was to tune a 225 what would you be looking ot get out of it bhp and ft-lb? i think this project will be amazing but costly! DO IT!!!

traffmeister - not sure on horsepowers and torques just yet, all depends on what i can get my hands on at the time! as for cost..!, i'm planning on it being a long term project so it won't be as wallet denting! doubt it will turn out like that tho and i'll probably be bankrupt in a year lol!

http://rtoc.sytes.net/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000586

some pics in here of a 225 conversion in progress on a R5, its not been anywhere near straightforward but its getting there! Mat may have more pics of the block before it went in but he has used a JB3 box on this conversion where as I guess you'd be using the 225 box?

Looks like its still got a bit of room in there.. so looking hopefull! guessing the JB3 box is a R5GTT one?
I would like to get the meggy box ideally (probably has bigger stronger shafts/bearings/diff) but i cant be 100% sure because i dont know what the 197 subframe is like yet!
If its a straight bolt onto the subframe i'd deffo go for the meggy box, Whereas if not.. I may be forced to use the 197 one for shaft/fitment issues etc! - you got any way of getting in contact with MATC? if so could you be kind enough to chuck us a pm and i'll give you/you give me his address! cheers

For info on mounts, I'd say try Renault.

When I was at Uni, I looked at what OEM's were doing first to see how I could potentially improve/steal designs for some of my projects last year.

Porsche, VW, BMW and Vauxhall were all perfectly willing to print off schematic drawing of the parts/assemblies from the parts departments. I don't see why Renault Parts guys wouldn't do the same, as long as your polite (as I'm sure you would be) and friendly.

Good idea about stealing there designs for uni work, my mate done a simular thing with a corkscrew for his uni project?! - lol :rasp:

Anyway...
Randomness is i found out i have an old mate who works for renault!
So parts drawings etc should be available to an extent (don't want to take the piss too much!!) The top engine mount looks the same, but diddnt get to the lower/gearbox ones.
Should of found out if the top one had the same part number...
Onto the hub assembly, asked him if they were the same and he replied on the phone 'the part number is completly different' - being a bit slow as i am diddnt think to ask, 'does it look the same on the drawing?' because i know some companies use different part numbers even if they are the same part (DOH!!)

or get a copy of dialogies?

I have already! Problem is it doesn't cover the new clio or megane sport though. (too old a version) spot on idea tho!! pm me if you know better

i've got a brand new megane RS gearbox in my garage, you can have it for £400

Fred, although i would love to take it off you're hands right now regardless!!,
I'm afraid untill i'm semi sure it will fit easily, i will have to give it a miss! check ur pm's anyway tho!
Be assured i will keep that in mind as it will be alot better than a second hand one!

awesome stuff! if anyone knows anything else.. keep it rolling!!!

cheers guys

 

[Jimbo_924]

I must admit I haven't heard of a manufacturer using different part numbers for the same part, so I'd be careful there. (The one I work for certainly doesn't) But with the drawings you can at least get an idea of the differences, got to say good luck mate should be an awesome project !