Most VFM way to get performance from a 1*2

[Jamie]

This isn't something I am doing right away etc but wanted to know what the best option/solution to go down is.

I don't really want to do cams and pulleys but did think about ITB's. Cams and pulleys I can't see too much gains from but ITBs always do well and should see decent gains. How much are ITB's about £2k?

I am really looking for more driveability and acceleration up the speeds, more 60mph plus and not particuarly wanting to have to flog the f**k out of it like with cams.

 

[ben_p]

buy my engine for £4000

238hp 181 lbft

Done

 

[Jamie]

Like I say, I am not doing this right away as I have not long bought: Recaros, Turinis, Cup Spoiler, 2 tyres, insurance (2 months).

Additionally within the last year (3-10 months) it has also had the cambelt, service, brake fluid flush and another oil and filter so errmm not just yet thanks.

Would prefer to just buy the ITBs anyway when the opportunity arises as I have faith and confidence in my engine.

 

[TJB182]

Why bother? Buy a better car.

 

[172Ben]

VFM = lose weight

 

[Bazzon]

Never really under stood spending fortunes on making road cars fast, but if you are planning on tracking it.

ITBs are ideal, they can be cheap if you find them 2nd hand and do the work yourself.

looking at a 30-35hp increase on a standard engine with TIBs.

 

[Jamie]

VFM = lose weight

Too rear wheel scitish, is quicker but hated the handaling so put it back in.

 

[172Ben]

I dont really suffer from that, AST rear coilovers, nice and hard helped stop it

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Never really under stood spending fortunes on making road cars fast, but if you are planning on tracking it.

Even less point imo.

If you were doing racing or hill climbs then yes, but I doubt you'd enter a Clio into an open championship anyway.

 

[Jamie]

I had hard rear suspension on the williams which was stripped and the lift off over steer was horendous, so a little bit cagey of that really. Quite like the neutrality of the standard set up.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

If you're taking weight out, then you want to go lower and softer.

 

[Jamie]

Hi guys, I am not particuarly bothered you think it is a waste of money, thanks.

 

[172Ben]

If you're taking weight out, then you want to go lower and softer.

Didnt work for me

 

[Hutchie]

2005 honda fireblade itb's 60 + p+p

sorted

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

How do you mean?

If you just took weight out of the rear, not that there's a great deal in hatchbacks anyway, then adjusted the rear suspension to suit, you'd have to do something with the front to match it otherwise the balance will be off.

Suspension is horrible stuff to play with.

 

[Bazzon]

Even less point imo.

If you were doing racing or hill climbs then yes, but I doubt you'd enter a Clio into an open championship anyway.

Not at all you can push you car to the limit on track, you can not do this on the road.

We had our car were happy with it standard did a few track days then it starts to spiral.

As for hillclimbs ect, they are regulated so you can only do a certain amount of mods.

Whereas you can do almost any thing to a car take it on a track day and find its limits.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Not at all you can push you car to the limit on track, you can not do this on the road.

We had our car were happy with it standard did a few track days then it starts to spiral.

As for hillclimbs ect, they are regulated so you can only do a certain amount of mods.

Whereas you can do almost any thing to a car take it on a track day and find its limits.

Depends what hillclimb/cup you're in tbh, and that was my point anyway.

If you're on a trackday, you don't gain anything by knocking a second a lap of your best lap times by adding 20hp. So where's the value for money?

You could be on 2 separate track days, one in a stock 172 and overtake someone in a 911 GT2 that can't drive, and then another day add ITBs to your car, and get annihilated by someone in a 911 Turbo that can drive.

Just my 2p tbh. But if I had 2 RS Clios, the one on the road would get the engine treatment and the one on the track would stay at a point that a total-loss doesn't cost the earth.

 

[Bazzon]

Depends what hillclimb/cup you're in tbh, and that was my point anyway.

If you're on a trackday, you don't gain anything by knocking a second a lap of your best lap times by adding 20hp. So where's the value for money?

You could be on 2 separate track days, one in a stock 172 and overtake someone in a 911 GT2 that can't drive, and then another day add ITBs to your car, and get annihilated by someone in a 911 Turbo that can drive.

Just my 2p tbh. But if I had 2 RS Clios, the one on the road would get the engine treatment and the one on the track would stay at a point that a total-loss doesn't cost the earth.

You dont understand the fun of trackdays and the joy you can get from them then. Or dont have the passion for cars other people have.

On a track you can use the full 100% of the car which you will never do on the road.

Carl and my self enjoy improving our car and spending our cash on it, my point being after being on track we both agreed that modding a road car for power is something we would not really consider.

Part of the fun of owning a track car is the part of fiddling and putting it back together, may seem odd but im sure other track car owners would agree.

 

[Bluebeard]

I've always done track days in standard cars, but the last one I did I used a modified 172 and I can safely say that was more fun than the M3 I tracked!!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

You dont understand the fun of trackdays and the joy you can get from them then. Or dont have the passion for cars other people have.

On a track you can use the full 100% of the car which you will never do on the road.

Carl and my self enjoy improving our car and spending our cash on it, my point being after being on track we both agreed that modding a road car for power is something we would not really consider.

Part of the fun of owning a track car is the part of fiddling and putting it back together, may seem odd but im sure other track car owners would agree.

I have done quite a few track days fella, not in my MX5 yet unfortunately though, which I expect will be awesome, mostly in other peoples cars though including an M3 race car (350hp, 10 point cage, 3 way suspension).

It's fun passing people in a ridiculously fast car and flying down the straights, but the faster and more expensive the car, the more care you have to take care if you want to guarantee you'll be driving it home.

I would rather have 200hp on a track and 400hp on the road than the other way round as straight line speed doesn't count for much on a circuit, whereas acceleration is the only thing you can give 100% on the road imo.

I've always done track days in standard cars, but the last one I did I used a modified 172 and I can safely say that was more fun than the M3 I tracked!!

M3's are quite big and rather powerful, you have to have quite a bit of skill to exhume their full potential (I'm not claiming to be able, mainly because I've never had one to practice with). Nor am I claiming you can't drive, but a 172 is a very easy car to throw round corners in a controlled fashion.

It'll also be down to the cars you're used to driving. If you drive a Ferrari F40 quite often then I'm sure an M3 would be more of a fun car than anything else.

 

[Bazzon]

I have done quite a few track days fella, not in my MX5 yet unfortunately though, which I expect will be awesome, mostly in other peoples cars though including an M3 race car (350hp, 10 point cage, 3 way suspension).

It's fun passing people in a ridiculously fast car and flying down the straights, but the faster and more expensive the car, the more care you have to take care if you want to guarantee you'll be driving it home.

I would rather have 200hp on a track and 400hp on the road than the other way round as straight line speed doesn't count for much on a circuit, whereas acceleration is the only thing you can give 100% on the road imo.



M3's are quite big and rather powerful, you have to have quite a bit of skill to exhume their full potential (I'm not claiming to be able, mainly because I've never had one to practice with). Nor am I claiming you can't drive, but a 172 is a very easy car to throw round corners in a controlled fashion.

It'll also be down to the cars you're used to driving. If you drive a Ferrari F40 quite often then I'm sure an M3 would be more of a fun car than anything else.

You would be pushing other peoples car to the limit.

We know if any thing were to happen to our car, we could repair it or build another for cheap.

Our clio is now where near as fast as some of the car on track, but because its OUR car we know we can push it as hard as we want, we therefore have more fun than most others out on track.

Straightline speed :sleepy:

having 400Hp on the road, you d never use it all.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

WTF?

This whole back and forth game came from me saying I think there's even less point in spending fortunes making a track car faster than on a road car and then you telling me how engine mods are pointless on a road car but worthy on a track car.

If I had 400hp, I'd use it everyday tbh. I had a 300hp daily driver a few months back for a while and it got used everyday.

 

[Bazzon]

WTF?

This whole back and forth game came from me saying I think there's even less point in spending fortunes making a track car faster than on a road car and then you telling me how engine mods are pointless on a road car but worthy on a track car.

If I had 400hp, I'd use it everyday tbh. I had a 300hp daily driver a few months back for a while and it got used everyday.

Well i can say hand on heart i thought id used the full potential of my 182 on the road till i took our 172 on the track.

If you believe you can drive harder and more on the limit on the road than on a track......fair enough.

 

[Barron]

think Bazzon is trying to say that there are these things on roads so whats the point in spending thousands on mods when you can only really go the speedlimit.

Obviously people buy faster cars etc. this helps overtaking and generally making you feel like you have a bigger c**k than someone with half the amount of bhp you have.

Unless you enjoy street racing? lol

carl

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Again, what the....

What does bhp and going fast in a straight line have to do with taking a car to it's potential round a race track?

 

[Bazzon]

Again, what the....

What does bhp and going fast in a straight line have to do with taking a car to it's potential round a race track?

As Carl said

Sound like the type of thing you are in to. fair enough.

But with there being fractions in 0-100 times in "fast" road cars, that boring and does nothing for me.

Aslong as i have enough power to pass the slow driver, and a quick car i can enjoy on some B roads, that fine by me.

 

[mattjk]

lol im lost.

 

[Bazzon]

lol im lost.

Well back to the origanal post

PERSONALLY i can not see the point in spending a fortune on modding a clio for the road i would rather spend my money on a nicer quicker car.

But if i was thinking of modding a clio for track use its a different story, because they are fun they are cheap in comparison to other track cars ect.

 

[Daz.]

There is no value for money modifications, they all cost way too much money to be of value - thats we all we respect people who do mod their cars, 90% of all people that say they're gonna do some serious mods never end up doing it purely because the subconcious tells you its a waste of money.

I plan on modding the engine on mine but know now its a waste of money in the long haul, just keep telling myself its worth it I guess

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

But if i was thinking of modding a clio for track use its a different story, because they are fun they are cheap in comparison to other track cars ect.

Here we go again. It's NO DIFFERENT!!!

It's even less VFM spending £2000 on an engine that will spend a few days a year in use than it would be to do it to your road car.

And whilst we're on it, they're also FWD, which makes them utterly tame on the track for everything other than going moderately fast.

 

[Bazzon]

Here we go again. It's NO DIFFERENT!!!

It's even less VFM spending £2000 on an engine that will spend a few days a year in use than it would be to do it to your road car.

And whilst we're on it, they're also FWD, which makes them utterly tame on the track for everything other than going moderately fast.

It is its a hobby a passion a joy, something me my brother and my farther all get involved in.

We get more joy out of the track car than any other car in the family, so the money we spend is worth it.

If we were to sell the car we could sell it as a track car, or as parts and not loose a massive amount.

It may be FWD, but its our car so its fun, its just as fast as most track especially round the bends.

 

[Jamie]

Sorry I mean VFM in gains.

I.e. tb's will cost 2k and give me 30 bhp?

Cams and pulleys 1k but 10 bhp?

I didn't mean what is cheap as I know none are. But I like my car but unwilling to get something like an Evo which will do 10 to the gallon and need servicing every 4k plus if I bin it or break it with the way I drive it will cost me a bomb to fix.

The clio is perfect in many respects. Fun, cheap and easy going. Something like an Evo is pretty serious from the outset and deff not cheap.

All I really want is my car to be a bit quicker 60-100. When you go on a A/B road blast, even in a hot hatch sometimes to get past it can be tough esp when accelerating from 60/70 mph where everyone else is accelerating or going fairly quick from the outset anyway.

Reading Richy's response it is also very important just now the car is reliable but doing this level of mods, like I say, isn't imminent. I have some time to think, save and make a choice. Before any level of mod's like this go on I will certainly to the basics like a decat etc.

 

[richy]

for me personally i prefer to mess about with my trackcar(mk1 16v clio), ok it may not be the fastest or best handling car in the world but its alot of fun even if modified, i started out with it standard but got bored eventually and started messing lol but i get the chance to push it hard on track and have fun in the process

if im honest i find my 182 to be fast enough for road use, never really get to push it to the limit anyway so even though i have thought about modding it i have never bothered as i dont use the car all that much and just enjoy having a nice reliable car to use(yes reliable lol), over 2 years ownership without a issue at all!

 

[richy]

There is no value for money modifications, they all cost way too much money to be of value - thats we all we respect people who do mod their cars, 90% of all people that say they're gonna do some serious mods never end up doing it purely because the subconcious tells you its a waste of money.

I plan on modding the engine on mine but know now its a waste of money in the long haul, just keep telling myself its worth it I guess

def agree that spending on mods is nearly always a loss, but then most of us have these cars as hobbies etc as such, so obviously generally we say sod it why not, could be wasting it on some other s**t or just pissing it up a wall and having only a hangover and shoes covered in piss n sick to show for it LOL

 

[Barron]

for me personally i prefer to mess about with my trackcar(mk1 16v clio), ok it may not be the fastest or best handling car in the world but its alot of fun even if modified, i started out with it standard but got bored eventually and started messing lol but i get the chance to push it hard on track and have fun in the process

if im honest i find my 182 to be fast enough for road use, never really get to push it to the limit anyway so even though i have thought about modding it i have never bothered as i dont use the car all that much and just enjoy having a nice reliable car to use(yes reliable lol), over 2 years ownership without a issue at all!

another road car and track car owner.

do you have both Cliokhunt?

carl

 

[Bazzon]

Sorry I mean VFM in gains.

I.e. tb's will cost 2k and give me 30 bhp?

Cams and pulleys 1k but 10 bhp?

I didn't mean what is cheap as I know none are. But I like my car but unwilling to get something like an Evo which will do 10 to the gallon and need servicing every 4k plus if I bin it or break it with the way I drive it cost me a bomb.

Well it depend where you get the ITBs from ect.

You can price them on Ktec and GDI fully fitted, like 3k ish (off top of my head)

Or you can look at a second hand kit like we did (old GDI kit) do the work your self etc and will save you some cash.

You could build your own kit and potentially have it mapped on OEM ECU to save more cash, but this takes time and effort, sourcing the parts and solving the wiring issues.

You will see 30HP increase on a standard engine with ITBs, give or take the mapping ect.

the other option is to wait for the super cup inlet being developed by matt(icarus), basically it will be a set of 428 cams with an new inlet based on what they use in the touring car.
This is in testing atm, the official figures have not been released but im sure they wont be far of ITB figures.
Matt has not realised a price, but it will retail under the price of ITBs.

ITBs do make an nice noise, really wish we had a decent set of cams in our car, but we planning on building a more powerful engine over time.

 

[caister]

IMO VFM would be to spend it on suspension and brakes and then learn how to drive the car properly.

 

[Jamie]

Yes, they will be on the car by the end of the summer, beginnning of Autumn.

 

[Brett]

Judging by you saying you didn't want to have to thrash it to get power, maybe you would be better off going down the forced induction route for lower down torque.

Thats either super or turbocharging the Clio or selling up and buying a charged car such as a meggy or something.

 

[Fred@BTM]

don't spend a penny until you learn how to really drive IMO

do the IAM/a lot of instruction (don palmer is very good) and do a load of track stuff, hell even get into racing of some sort, worth bucket loads more than 30bhp