172 Cup
Hi Guys,
Tyre choice is a very personal thing and can end up in an emotive discussion as everyone seems to have their personal preference, likes and dislikes - its like choosing between Apple, Android or Blackberry, some like brand x for whatever reason and others don't. However, in the case of the Nankangs I see a lot of comments such as 'ditchfinders', yet some people I know who regularly track and know how to drive speak very highly of them.
Rather than join the ditchfinder bandwagon, I thought I would give them a go. I have been testing Nankangs for the past few months and thought I would share my thoughts. I have been using the NS2 (195/45/16) on the road, and the NS2R (192/50/15 with 120 compound) on road and track.
NS2 Road Use:
I paid £39 a corner, so £156 for a full set of four. Compare this to something like the Michelin Pilot Sport 3 which are currently going for £82 a corner (£328 a set), and you can see the first benefit is obviously a cost saving of £172 a set!!! That is not in-significant.
However, saving £172 is only worth something if they are any good - I dont want to save money if it means ending up in a ditch. First things first, the NS2 is NOT a ditchfinder. Nankang make lots of different models of tyre - I am sure that some of their other ranges are causing confusion. The NS2 model is a high quality tyre. Do not let the price fool you, it is not some cheap crappy budget which is equivalent to a remould.
To drive with, it feels almost identical to something like a Toyo T1R. This in itself is a bit of a marmite tyre - some people like them, others hate them. Just like the Toyo, the NS2 has a slightly softer sidewall than something like a Pilot Sport or PZero, but personally I quite like this. When turning in, they do not quite have the same level of grip as the models with a stiffer side wall, but they make up for it by gradually breaking away rather than just snapping. Like I said, its a marmite thing. Some folk want absolute grip until its not physically possible - others want it to slowly break away in a controllable fashion so you can take corrective action and sort it out. Personally I fit into the latter camp and as such the NS2 (like the T1R) fits the bill perfectly for me.
With this in mind, lets compare the price to a T1R as its probably the most fair comparison. T1R's are currently going for £57 a corner (£228 a set), thus they are £72 more expensive than the Nankangs. So now the question becomes... what does this extra £72 buy you?
As best I can tell, it buys you nothing other than a brand name. Seriously, I drove T1R's and NS2's back to back and I cannot tell the difference. In the dry the NS2 has a tiny bit better grip, in the wet the T1R is a tad better - but we are talking about a fraction of a percent, such a small difference that it could even be a placebo effect. In all scenarios I could hardly tell the difference. The sound levels from them both is almost identical, they feel almost identical, turn in is almost identical and when pressing on the brakeaway point is almost identical. If you think a T1R is a ditchfinder then you will think the same of an NS2, but if you like the T1R then I would strongly recomend buying the NS2 and using the money saved to take your misses out for a night out or something as I very much doubt you will be able to tell the difference. The only area I have noticed a difference on is wear. After 2 months the NS2's seem to be wearing slighly slower than a T1R but again this could be a placebo.
NS2-R Road & Track Use:
The first thing to point out is that the NS2 and NS2-R are 'very' different beasts. Forget everything I said above about the NS2 having a soft sidewall - the sidewall in the NS2-R appears to be made from a blend of diamond, carbon-nanotubes, concrete and Thor's hammer. I made the mistake of deciding to fit the tyres myself (I am lucky as I have access to a tyre fitting machine) but dear lord it was a battle to get them on. The sidewalls are so stiff that it took a serious amount of brute force and swearing to get them over the rim. For a track tyre, this is a good sign!
Lets look at the price first, in my case I paid £228 for four of them, that's £57 a corner. To put that into perspective, its the same price as the Toyo T1R road tyre mentioned above - only this is for a track focussed bit of rubber. On the surface it seems a good deal.
Performance wise I have not read a huge amount about what to expect from the NS2-R other than my track going friends saying its a good choice. I was hoping for R888 level of performance - but to be very to the point, if you are chasing lap times then you would be better off with the R888 or equivalents. The NS2-R comes a close second, but for the hardcore of you chasing lap times, second place wont be good enough.
However, for those of you who are looking at more of a track-day setup rather than sprint series / hillclimb, they have lots to offer. Once again, just look at the price - £228 for a set of 4 very sticky bits of track rubber. Compare that to the default selection of track-day tyres, R888's are currently going for £480 a set. Thats a saving of £252. However, in this case, the extra £252 is buying you something - its buying you a few seconds a lap which may be worth the money on a sprint / hillclimb. So lets compare it to the other three options which everyone loves for track days - the Fedral 595 RSR, the Yoko AD08 and Toyo R1R.
In the case of the 595 RSR, you are looking at around £350 for a set of 4, and the ADO8's are about £311 with R1R's coming in at £319 a set - a saving of £122, £83 and £91 respectively. All theree of these options have quite a loyal following, each group preferring one to the other - and I am not going to say that the NS2-R are better than any of them as they are not.
However, what I will say is that in the dry the NS2-R is as good as them. It is genuinely up there with these kind of tyres on track. Since switching from road tyres to NS2-R's on track, I can now sit level with other 172/182's which would previously outgrip me as they were running the track focussed rubber. Now I am running NS2-R's, I can sit with them. For me, this speaks volumes.
In the dry, you need to get them warm but they get up to temperature fairly quickly. Whilst cold, you cannot press beyond about 80% as you will start to feel it understeer and slide out. However, once warm you can feel them come alive and the car becomes transformed. Compared to road tyres you can brake much later, you can get on the noisy pedal sooner and you can turn harder. They are without a shadow of a doubt much faster than a road tyre. When you do start to get to the limit of grip, they do not just snap - they still give you warning and you can feel it starting to slide and you can take corrective action. However, compared to a road tyre you have less time to make your correction as you would expect because the limits of grip are pushing the car that much further.
In the wet they are a handful. They can deal with normal rain fairly well, but the nature of them needing heat to perform makes them unable to shine when the heavens open. I think this can be said of most of the track-day tyre choices - rain is a great equaliser. When its really wet, you would probably be better off with some RainSports - but that can be said for the other options too. Don't get me wrong, they are not terrible in the wet, but you cannot press on hard as no warmth in them combined with a slippy surface makes them about as useful as a normal road tyre. Standing water however is scary as hell - but you shouldn't be encountering that on track.
For a track tyre, the wear is very good and its consistent across both sides... after a few lock-ups (why did I buy a cup with no ABS?!) I expected to see some huge bold spots but even lockups from 90 sliding in a giant cloud of smoke only scuffed the surface mildly. Pretty impressive.
On road they would not be my first choice. Most things I have said thus far are very positive - this is the only point that they let down. Road noise is very loud, with a tread wear rating of 120 they will run out fairly quickly, and their performance when cold and in the wet is far from ideal. For road you would be better off with a normal tyre. If your using your car clio regularly on the road, then I wouldnt bother. If you use it on road to just drive to and from the track and every now and then when the suns shining for a weekend drive, then its not a bad tyre. However, most people who will buy them will probably be like me and have a set of road rims and track rims - I cant see anyone with that setup using them as their road rubber.
Conclusion
Ok, sorry for the essey. I read so much s**t online about Nankangs that I felt I wanted to put the record straight from my point of view. Like I said at the start, tyre choice is often personal preference - but please do not fall into the trap of hearing the brand Nankang and instantly dismissing them as ditch finders. The NS2 and NS2-R models are anything but. They are genuinely good tyres. If you took the exact same tyre and put a brand name on them, people would pay more and have confidence.
If money is no issue and you feel more comfortable with a brand / model you know and trust, thats cool, crack on and go for it. The other options are great tyres. But if you are looking for bang for buck, they are seriously worth a look. In both the NS2 and NS2-R, you will be paying about half the price of the closest competition, for the same (or worst case 95%) of the performance.
Short summary:
Thats it really. I am sure there are those out there who will continue to call them s**t without actually trying them, and I am sure that there are those out there who have tried them and didnt get on with them - but this is the case of every model of tyre out there. Hopefully someone out there who is looking for some tyre advice and isnt sure about them stumbles upon this post in the future and can have a balanced view from someone who tried them and likes them
Final note, the NS2-R in particular can be a bit of a sod to find online, my friend Lloyd can probably get you a good price if you want some (lloydbagladi@aol.com).
Tyre choice is a very personal thing and can end up in an emotive discussion as everyone seems to have their personal preference, likes and dislikes - its like choosing between Apple, Android or Blackberry, some like brand x for whatever reason and others don't. However, in the case of the Nankangs I see a lot of comments such as 'ditchfinders', yet some people I know who regularly track and know how to drive speak very highly of them.
Rather than join the ditchfinder bandwagon, I thought I would give them a go. I have been testing Nankangs for the past few months and thought I would share my thoughts. I have been using the NS2 (195/45/16) on the road, and the NS2R (192/50/15 with 120 compound) on road and track.
NS2 Road Use:
I paid £39 a corner, so £156 for a full set of four. Compare this to something like the Michelin Pilot Sport 3 which are currently going for £82 a corner (£328 a set), and you can see the first benefit is obviously a cost saving of £172 a set!!! That is not in-significant.
However, saving £172 is only worth something if they are any good - I dont want to save money if it means ending up in a ditch. First things first, the NS2 is NOT a ditchfinder. Nankang make lots of different models of tyre - I am sure that some of their other ranges are causing confusion. The NS2 model is a high quality tyre. Do not let the price fool you, it is not some cheap crappy budget which is equivalent to a remould.
To drive with, it feels almost identical to something like a Toyo T1R. This in itself is a bit of a marmite tyre - some people like them, others hate them. Just like the Toyo, the NS2 has a slightly softer sidewall than something like a Pilot Sport or PZero, but personally I quite like this. When turning in, they do not quite have the same level of grip as the models with a stiffer side wall, but they make up for it by gradually breaking away rather than just snapping. Like I said, its a marmite thing. Some folk want absolute grip until its not physically possible - others want it to slowly break away in a controllable fashion so you can take corrective action and sort it out. Personally I fit into the latter camp and as such the NS2 (like the T1R) fits the bill perfectly for me.
With this in mind, lets compare the price to a T1R as its probably the most fair comparison. T1R's are currently going for £57 a corner (£228 a set), thus they are £72 more expensive than the Nankangs. So now the question becomes... what does this extra £72 buy you?
As best I can tell, it buys you nothing other than a brand name. Seriously, I drove T1R's and NS2's back to back and I cannot tell the difference. In the dry the NS2 has a tiny bit better grip, in the wet the T1R is a tad better - but we are talking about a fraction of a percent, such a small difference that it could even be a placebo effect. In all scenarios I could hardly tell the difference. The sound levels from them both is almost identical, they feel almost identical, turn in is almost identical and when pressing on the brakeaway point is almost identical. If you think a T1R is a ditchfinder then you will think the same of an NS2, but if you like the T1R then I would strongly recomend buying the NS2 and using the money saved to take your misses out for a night out or something as I very much doubt you will be able to tell the difference. The only area I have noticed a difference on is wear. After 2 months the NS2's seem to be wearing slighly slower than a T1R but again this could be a placebo.
NS2-R Road & Track Use:
The first thing to point out is that the NS2 and NS2-R are 'very' different beasts. Forget everything I said above about the NS2 having a soft sidewall - the sidewall in the NS2-R appears to be made from a blend of diamond, carbon-nanotubes, concrete and Thor's hammer. I made the mistake of deciding to fit the tyres myself (I am lucky as I have access to a tyre fitting machine) but dear lord it was a battle to get them on. The sidewalls are so stiff that it took a serious amount of brute force and swearing to get them over the rim. For a track tyre, this is a good sign!
Lets look at the price first, in my case I paid £228 for four of them, that's £57 a corner. To put that into perspective, its the same price as the Toyo T1R road tyre mentioned above - only this is for a track focussed bit of rubber. On the surface it seems a good deal.
Performance wise I have not read a huge amount about what to expect from the NS2-R other than my track going friends saying its a good choice. I was hoping for R888 level of performance - but to be very to the point, if you are chasing lap times then you would be better off with the R888 or equivalents. The NS2-R comes a close second, but for the hardcore of you chasing lap times, second place wont be good enough.
However, for those of you who are looking at more of a track-day setup rather than sprint series / hillclimb, they have lots to offer. Once again, just look at the price - £228 for a set of 4 very sticky bits of track rubber. Compare that to the default selection of track-day tyres, R888's are currently going for £480 a set. Thats a saving of £252. However, in this case, the extra £252 is buying you something - its buying you a few seconds a lap which may be worth the money on a sprint / hillclimb. So lets compare it to the other three options which everyone loves for track days - the Fedral 595 RSR, the Yoko AD08 and Toyo R1R.
In the case of the 595 RSR, you are looking at around £350 for a set of 4, and the ADO8's are about £311 with R1R's coming in at £319 a set - a saving of £122, £83 and £91 respectively. All theree of these options have quite a loyal following, each group preferring one to the other - and I am not going to say that the NS2-R are better than any of them as they are not.
However, what I will say is that in the dry the NS2-R is as good as them. It is genuinely up there with these kind of tyres on track. Since switching from road tyres to NS2-R's on track, I can now sit level with other 172/182's which would previously outgrip me as they were running the track focussed rubber. Now I am running NS2-R's, I can sit with them. For me, this speaks volumes.
In the dry, you need to get them warm but they get up to temperature fairly quickly. Whilst cold, you cannot press beyond about 80% as you will start to feel it understeer and slide out. However, once warm you can feel them come alive and the car becomes transformed. Compared to road tyres you can brake much later, you can get on the noisy pedal sooner and you can turn harder. They are without a shadow of a doubt much faster than a road tyre. When you do start to get to the limit of grip, they do not just snap - they still give you warning and you can feel it starting to slide and you can take corrective action. However, compared to a road tyre you have less time to make your correction as you would expect because the limits of grip are pushing the car that much further.
In the wet they are a handful. They can deal with normal rain fairly well, but the nature of them needing heat to perform makes them unable to shine when the heavens open. I think this can be said of most of the track-day tyre choices - rain is a great equaliser. When its really wet, you would probably be better off with some RainSports - but that can be said for the other options too. Don't get me wrong, they are not terrible in the wet, but you cannot press on hard as no warmth in them combined with a slippy surface makes them about as useful as a normal road tyre. Standing water however is scary as hell - but you shouldn't be encountering that on track.
For a track tyre, the wear is very good and its consistent across both sides... after a few lock-ups (why did I buy a cup with no ABS?!) I expected to see some huge bold spots but even lockups from 90 sliding in a giant cloud of smoke only scuffed the surface mildly. Pretty impressive.
On road they would not be my first choice. Most things I have said thus far are very positive - this is the only point that they let down. Road noise is very loud, with a tread wear rating of 120 they will run out fairly quickly, and their performance when cold and in the wet is far from ideal. For road you would be better off with a normal tyre. If your using your car clio regularly on the road, then I wouldnt bother. If you use it on road to just drive to and from the track and every now and then when the suns shining for a weekend drive, then its not a bad tyre. However, most people who will buy them will probably be like me and have a set of road rims and track rims - I cant see anyone with that setup using them as their road rubber.
Conclusion
Ok, sorry for the essey. I read so much s**t online about Nankangs that I felt I wanted to put the record straight from my point of view. Like I said at the start, tyre choice is often personal preference - but please do not fall into the trap of hearing the brand Nankang and instantly dismissing them as ditch finders. The NS2 and NS2-R models are anything but. They are genuinely good tyres. If you took the exact same tyre and put a brand name on them, people would pay more and have confidence.
If money is no issue and you feel more comfortable with a brand / model you know and trust, thats cool, crack on and go for it. The other options are great tyres. But if you are looking for bang for buck, they are seriously worth a look. In both the NS2 and NS2-R, you will be paying about half the price of the closest competition, for the same (or worst case 95%) of the performance.
Short summary:
- NS2 - think of it as a T1R. Its the same thing for all intents and purposes. If you like the T1R you will like the NS2. If you don't, you wont. For £37 a corner, its worth a go. NOT a ditchfinder, despite what the internet will tell you.
- NS2-R - its not a R888 and if you are chasing times then its not for you. If however your after a track-day setup, at the price it is well worth a look. £57 a corner for sticky rubber really is good value and its up there with the likes of the RSR, R1R, etc but at a fraction of the price. However, not ideal for day-to-day road use.
Thats it really. I am sure there are those out there who will continue to call them s**t without actually trying them, and I am sure that there are those out there who have tried them and didnt get on with them - but this is the case of every model of tyre out there. Hopefully someone out there who is looking for some tyre advice and isnt sure about them stumbles upon this post in the future and can have a balanced view from someone who tried them and likes them
Final note, the NS2-R in particular can be a bit of a sod to find online, my friend Lloyd can probably get you a good price if you want some (lloydbagladi@aol.com).
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