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Need a honest opinion



  1999 clio 172 track
Hi All

I need a factual honest opinion on the Ferodo 1.11 pads.

A pal and i are running a 1999 172 as a track day toy it does not ever go on the road it is trailered.
The car is pretty scruffy looking but is actually quite trick, heres the but... every mod / change we make has to be cost effective, i know track days are not a cheap hobby im under no illusions but every mod needs to make financial sense otherwise were just making it more expensive in the long run.
At present the brakes on our car are bog standard and to be fair they do o.k. We keep the fluid changed regular and only suffer minimal fade when we are really in the zone. We use apec pads that we get for £13 from our local motor factors and accept that by dinner time we need to replace them ready for the afternoon session.
The current brake discs are standard discs but are now getting a few minor grooves in them so after this next track day they will be getting replaced with the brembo hc max grooved i think they are called. The big main question is are the 1.11's gonna last ten times longer given they are ten times the price of our apec standard pads. I know they will perform ie stop the car quicker but will they last. If its the case that they are so much more expensive simply because they have so much more friction then for us they probably arent what we are looking for, as i mentioned above we dont feel we are lacking in stopping power and indeed we can lock the brakes up just fine on standard pads lol, we would just like to get more than half a day out of a set of pads and not be had of fon the price.
All opinions welcomed but would really like to hear from someone who has been where we are.
Thanks.
 

RSRowe

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 197
The big main question is are the 1.11's gonna last ten times longer given they are ten times the price of our apec standard pads.
If you fit the DS1.11 and drive the exact same lap times you are with the Apec pads, they would easily last more than 10 times the life you have at the moment.
The issue is that once you had a better pad, you're gonna be leaning on them more because 1, it feels great. and 2, going faster is ace.

Maybe consider the PBS pads as compromise.
 
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  1999 clio 172 track
If you fit the DS1.11 and drive the exact same lap times you are with the Apec pads, they would easily last more than 10 times the life you have at the moment.
The issue is that once you had a better pad, you're gonna be leaning on them more because 1, it feels great. and 2, going faster is ace.

Maybe consider the PBS pads as compromise.
I have wondered how much we have adapted our driving style to try to avoid wearing the brakes even quicker.
would the discs running cooler when we fit the new ones help make the Apec's last longer.
 

green

ClioSport Club Member
  Hi comp phase 1
I found carbon larrain RC6 the best on track on mine with them over the DS 1:11. Especially with scrubbing off the speed. Brembo max discs are a good shout. I had tarox 2000 discs with RC6 pad and they are awesome. With ducting I can go half hour with no fading at all.
These type of pads last me a good year or 2 of road and track.
Ducting will definitely keep temperatures down but not sure on the longevity of your pads. Could always put ducting in and see if they do.
 

Touring_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
Maybe give PBS a go... £100 and get good reviews.

I have M1155's which initially I didn't think were upto much but actually after a bed in are much better. Also £100.

Your spending £26 a day so the above only needs to last 4 times longer to cost you the same (if you are intent on ignoring the advantages of better pads). Reality is you will be breaking later and harder so the pads won't last as long as you hope but your laptimes will go down - would be my assumption.
 

Daniel

ClioSport Moderator
  Whichever has fuel
I use Brembo HC plain discs, standard calipers and DS1.11 pads, cheap Euro car parts fluid.

I’ve done 6 track days on this setup and not only have I had zero brake fade but the brakes still have well over 60% left in them. Not even close to being worn out. I can stamp on them at whatever speed and I know they’re going to work, time and time again. Unreal set up for what is relatively cheap in the world of brakes.

Once I did A trackday at Llandow in a standard 172 and went through a set of Motrio pads (Renaults cheap alternative) in less than a day. 😂😂
 
  1999 clio 172 track
I use Brembo HC plain discs, standard calipers and DS1.11 pads, cheap Euro car parts fluid.

I’ve done 6 track days on this setup and not only have I had zero brake fade but the brakes still have well over 60% left in them. Not even close to being worn out. I can stamp on them at whatever speed and I know they’re going to work, time and time again. Unreal set up for what is relatively cheap in the world of brakes.

Once I did A trackday at Llandow in a standard 172 and went through a set of Motrio pads (Renaults cheap alternative) in less than a day. 😂😂
Can i ask why you opted for plain discs over drilled / grooved discs. Again if were wasting cash buying things that are more expensive for no real world benefit then we dont want them.
 
  1999 clio 172 track
I use Brembo HC plain discs, standard calipers and DS1.11 pads, cheap Euro car parts fluid.

I’ve done 6 track days on this setup and not only have I had zero brake fade but the brakes still have well over 60% left in them. Not even close to being worn out. I can stamp on them at whatever speed and I know they’re going to work, time and time again. Unreal set up for what is relatively cheap in the world of brakes.

Once I did A trackday at Llandow in a standard 172 and went through a set of Motrio pads (Renaults cheap alternative) in less than a day. 😂😂
Thats the type of info we need 6 days still plenty of life left and the benefit of better braking so quicker times. Real world benefits from spending a few extra quid plus not burning my fingers trying to change pads in a hurry lol.
 
  1999 clio 172 track
BTW i dont really know if its good bad or indifferent but we go to oulton park and run consistent 2:12 with the best being a 2:04 that carl did on a set of slick tyres he got his hands on they are now well worn out. the quickest hes run on the ns-2r's we typically run is a 2:08 my best time is 2:11
 

Touring_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
Brembo HC don't seem to warp and are cheap.

You'll gain far more with better pads than fancy discs. There are all sorts of claims made about disks, cooling, cleaning pad face of material, letting gas escape etcetc. How much of any of it is true I do not know (im sure there are some thrilling studies on the subject)... I suspect more often than not people have drilled, grooved or hooked disks because they look race.
 
  1999 clio 172 track
Brembo HC don't seem to warp and are cheap.

You'll gain far more with better pads than fancy discs. There are all sorts of claims made about disks, cooling, cleaning pad face of material, letting gas escape etcetc. How much of any of it is true I do not know (im sure there are some thrilling studies on the subject)... I suspect more often than not people have drilled, grooved or hooked disks because they look race.
Im very keen not to buy things on the looks hence the reason im asking people like yourself for real world findings. I priced the brembo hc max grooved at my local euro car parts this morning they dont stock them but can get them next day and they were approx £41 plus vat per disc again i have no idea if this is good or bad but it seems reasonable to me. Ive read a few posts on here and people seem to rate the brembo hc range in general. The other question is our current discs have seen dozens of sets of pads over many years. will pads such as the 1.11's eat discs quicker.
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
I run Winmax W6 on plain discs - these are a step up again from the Ferodo. Decent race pads dont have any issues to warrant needing grooved discs. Grooves might help recover a standard disc when you go over their temperature range but they increase wear. Cooler pads will wear slower and keeping the discs cool will help with bearings,CV joints etc too.
I'm surprised you are managing to keep the pad temperature down enough that you are not getting fade.
This is a video of my Clio 182 round Brands Hatch with only significant mods being coilovers and winmax brakes. Full interior and all the trimmings
Brands Hatch 2020 - Renault Clio 182 Trophy - YouTube
Its not super fast as cars go but you can see how late I brake for corners. I dont think I could do it consistently with standard pads.
 

Touring_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
Im very keen not to buy things on the looks hence the reason im asking people like yourself for real world findings. I priced the brembo hc max grooved at my local euro car parts this morning they dont stock them but can get them next day and they were approx £41 plus vat per disc again i have no idea if this is good or bad but it seems reasonable to me. Ive read a few posts on here and people seem to rate the brembo hc range in general. The other question is our current discs have seen dozens of sets of pads over many years. will pads such as the 1.11's eat discs quicker.

Note - I am not an experienced track goer so if someone with more direct experience with a track car comes along and says differently listen to them.

Regarding disc life vs pad type. Most fast road/track pads will nosh through discs, there are some types of pad however which are kinder to discs than others. I suspect all fast road pads towards the cheaper end of the scale will be disc nobblers however at what rate I cannot tell you.

I got three laps into brands before the car died, in that short time + about 3k road miles the M1155's look very lightly worn and discs still look new.
 

Daniel

ClioSport Moderator
  Whichever has fuel
Can i ask why you opted for plain discs over drilled / grooved discs. Again if were wasting cash buying things that are more expensive for no real world benefit then we dont want them.
Heat cycles have been known to crack discs that are drilled/grooved.
Plain discs are cheap, do the job fine and as such I see no need to essentially waste more money.

My friend has a clio with Willwood 4 pots, J hook discs, and CL pads and yes he has immense stopping power but he chews through discs and when we’re out on track together, there is no separating us so in my eyes, I have a much better value for money setup.
 

Daniel

ClioSport Moderator
  Whichever has fuel
I’m in the white clio - ds1.11 pads
Mate in the black/red clio - ds1.11 pads
Mate in the MX5 - ds1.11 pads.

See here;
 

Touring_Rob

ClioSport Club Member
I run Winmax W6 on plain discs - these are a step up again from the Ferodo. Decent race pads dont have any issues to warrant needing grooved discs. Grooves might help recover a standard disc when you go over their temperature range but they increase wear. Cooler pads will wear slower and keeping the discs cool will help with bearings,CV joints etc too.
I'm surprised you are managing to keep the pad temperature down enough that you are not getting fade.
This is a video of my Clio 182 round Brands Hatch with only significant mods being coilovers and winmax brakes. Full interior and all the trimmings
Brands Hatch 2020 - Renault Clio 182 Trophy - YouTube
Its not super fast as cars go but you can see how late I brake for corners. I dont think I could do it consistently with standard pads.
Had to lol when your serv light came on during cooldown. Did you mean to leave tc turned on?
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
Pulled the plug out later on in the day when the drier weather made it more intrusive.
To be honest that was my first seat time in a Clio in 10 years. I didnt even remember they came with tc lol
 

Amos91

ClioSport Club Member
PBS aren’t worth the saving over DS1.11s as they wear pretty quick.

not sure what tracks you’ve driven but I would get standard pads fading by lap 2 and have been known at Bedford to come in with them on fire (a red flag didn’t help!)

I would thoroughly recommend the DS1.11s, wear rate is exceptional, I was still on my first set and completed track day after track day.
 

Bankrupt_drunk

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
When I got my clio it came with some relatively new mintex M1144's. They were a great "fast road" pad but faded after 15 minutes hard use on track (No ducting, fresh ATE type 200 fluid brembo HC discs). I they were 50% worn after 2 track days and a thousand road miles. I've now got PFC 097 compound pads, which are really, really good on the track and have 60-75% left after 5 track days. However, they are noisy when cold.
 
  1999 clio 172 track
After some searching about ive realised ive made a mistake, the 1.11 pads are actually nearly 20 times more expensive as the Apec pads we currently use. ive settled in my mind that standard Brembo Hc discs will do and the price is reasonable. Im just not able to justify £230 for brake pads in my head. Unless im looking at the wrong things of course.
 
  1999 clio 172 track
When I got my clio it came with some relatively new mintex M1144's. They were a great "fast road" pad but faded after 15 minutes hard use on track (No ducting, fresh ATE type 200 fluid brembo HC discs). I they were 50% worn after 2 track days and a thousand road miles. I've now got PFC 097 compound pads, which are really, really good on the track and have 60-75% left after 5 track days. However, they are noisy when cold.
Not bothered about noise hot or cold, the car is no longer road legal so they wont stay cold long lol. Ill have a look at the PFC's,
it's strange because we dont suffer brake fade too much at all we do run ducting and im assuming that subconsciously we must of adapted driving to keep the brakes in a sweet spot so to speak. I really do want to try some proper performance pads if nothing else just to compare the lap times, i just cant settle it in my own head i know i must sound stupid as im typing this but its how we both think. Im beginning to think im gonna have to put in some overtime and suck it up. How much are the PFC pads ?
 

Kev@KAM

ClioSport Trader
  Badass Toyota
I can supply these at a good price. Only the 97 compound is available now. The padshape fits the Clio RS and the Peugeot 306 GTI6
 
  406 V6, Race Buggy
As many already said, save the money on discs, and spend it on the pads. The difference between discs in terms of braking performance is barely noticeable. The main things with premium discs is some of them wear better and some of them are much better at suppressing brake squeal because they're high graphite. Grooved or drilled will just eat pads faster.

Even discs this extreme:
DiscMaxOffset.jpg


Don't make a huge change to braking performance - do to pad wear though.

I know when I went to Carbotechs over the Mintex/Wilwood and various other compounds on the race buggy we went from changing a set of pads every event and discs every 3 or so, to changing pads every couple 18mth/couple of years and the same discs are still on the shelf because they're fine and we changed sizes since....
 
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