New track car advice, R26, 197 or Fiesta ST

[Superninj]

Hi, i've been doing some research into buying one of the following cars for track use and the odd trip to work (i have a diesel daily).
Options i'm interested in are the R26, clio 197 and Fiesta ST (£5-£7k starting budget).
I don't want to strip it bare like my last 172 CUP although fun just becomes a ball ache, I'm thinking at the most harnesses and suitable reclining seats, with the rear seats being removed and kept and concentrate on spending money on rubber, pads and a a few choice mods for performance.
I'm interested in peoples opinions on the above choices and if anyone has switched between these models, i have been reading up on the R26 but the ST i know very little about.

 

[masekwm]

Can you risk burying 5k into a barrier? That's why I've still got my 172 Cup

 

[Knuckles]

R26

 

[smith647]

Guessing by your budget you mean the Mk6 Fiesta ST with 2ltr Duratec engine? If so don't bother unless you've got a lot of money to modify it. I've had one and spent about 6k on it. Yes it has an ST badge but in standard form it's pretty dreadful for track. Power there massively restricted from the factory so Ford could produce them to be low on tax and insurance. I did induction, exhaust, cams and inlet (MR200 kit) which cost £3500 and got it to 200bhp which was respectable. The suspension is comical... Looks like a 4x4. Coilovers are needed for track with BCs or Miester Rs being highly rated at around £800. Then it's just the usual replace old worn bushes, brakes (braided hoses, track pads) and tyres.

Comparing fairly standardish cars a 197 will be a better track car as apposed to the ST. Not sure what the R26s are like as I've never been in one.

 

[Knuckles]

R26s are like 197s with an lsd and adequate power

 

[welshname]

Depends,

Running costs of the 197 and Meg are much more than that of the 172/182. It really does depend how much you're willing to shell out.

 

[terryc101]

Out of those 3 I'd pick an R26.

The obvious choice would be another 172.

 

[Superninj]

Can you risk burying 5k into a barrier? That's why I've still got my 172 Cup

I get your point, in my head i'm willing to risk it yes, i've made the switch from motorbike trackdays so risk has been higher lol

Guessing by your budget you mean the Mk6 Fiesta ST with 2ltr Duratec engine? If so don't bother unless you've got a lot of money to modify it. I've had one and spent about 6k on it. Yes it has an ST badge but in standard form it's pretty dreadful for track. Power there massively restricted from the factory so Ford could produce them to be low on tax and insurance. I did induction, exhaust, cams and inlet (MR200 kit) which cost £3500 and got it to 200bhp which was respectable. The suspension is comical... Looks like a 4x4. Coilovers are needed for track with BCs or Miester Rs being highly rated at around £800. Then it's just the usual replace old worn bushes, brakes (braided hoses, track pads) and tyres.

Comparing fairly standardish cars a 197 will be a better track car as apposed to the ST. Not sure what the R26s are like as I've never been in one.

Thanks smith that's really helpful.

 

[Superninj]

R26s are like 197s with an lsd and adequate power

Depends,

Running costs of the 197 and Meg are much more than that of the 172/182. It really does depend how much you're willing to shell out.

Power, turbo and lsd are what attracts me to the R26. I really like my 172 cup but i suppose the biggest dilemma is a 172 cup with increased hp, and lsd will end up near R26 money....

 

[masekwm]

Power, turbo and lsd are what attracts me to the R26. I really like my 172 cup but i suppose the biggest dilemma is a 172 cup with increased hp, and lsd will end up near R26 money....

Mine owes me R26 money, but I hope in the event of an accident that I'd be able to recover the Quaife & Bodies.

 

[Dave LM]

I had a 172 track car (stripped etc, but road legal) which I did loads of TD'S with. I got a decent spec R26 at the start of last year, full milltek exhaust and RST stage 1 map, better brakes, suspension and spare alloys with track tyres.
I kept the car with full interior so I could use it for family duties as well as trackdays, but I had the engine fail in a big way on my second trackday, when the rod on cylinder 1 went through the block whilst half way up the main straight at Snetterton.
The car was mechanically sound, recent quality oil change, but turned out to be one of those things.... I was at RST at the end of last year, and the lads their did say R26 engines don't take high levels of torque, certainly compared to the RS250's etc. After my Meg had failed I remember reading some other bits of information on the net and RSM, cylinder 1 (flywheel end) seemingly being the end prone to failure. The guy I sold the car to did a strip down, and reckons that oil starvation was the likely cause with my particular car.
I have now gone back to a 172 for track duties, and my current car has done about 6 TD'S, including some long stints out on track at a time.
The Megane was the second boosted car that I have had an engine fail with whilst on track, the other being an Impreza which had a bottom end failure, that was in about 2010. I have used a few other turbo cars on track, but for now I have decided to stick with N/A engines to reduce cost / chance of failures.

 

[Superninj]

I had a 172 track car (stripped etc, but road legal) which I did loads of TD'S with. I got a decent spec R26 at the start of last year, full milltek exhaust and RST stage 1 map, better brakes, suspension and spare alloys with track tyres.
I kept the car with full interior so I could use it for family duties as well as trackdays, but I had the engine fail in a big way on my second trackday, when the rod on cylinder 1 went through the block whilst half way up the main straight at Snetterton.
The car was mechanically sound, recent quality oil change, but turned out to be one of those things.... I was at RST at the end of last year, and the lads their did say R26 engines don't take high levels of torque, certainly compared to the RS250's etc. After my Meg had failed I remember reading some other bits of information on the net and RSM, cylinder 1 (flywheel end) seemingly being the end prone to failure. The guy I sold the car to did a strip down, and reckons that oil starvation was the likely cause with my particular car.
I have now gone back to a 172 for track duties, and my current car has done about 6 TD'S, including some long stints out on track at a time.
The Megane was the second boosted car that I have had an engine fail with whilst on track, the other being an Impreza which had a bottom end failure, that was in about 2010. I have used a few other turbo cars on track, but for now I have decided to stick with N/A engines to reduce cost / chance of failures.

That's some rotten luck Dave, it's always a gamble as you never know how hard a life it's had before you take it on

 

[LeeRS]

An R26 has just come up for sale on here. Good spec.
If you were a paid member I'm sure you would be interested in it.

 

[ForceIndia]

I've done dozens of track days in 1*2's. They soaked it up, light and simple. My r26 and 200 didn't cope as well with track work.
If it's mainly track work, I'd be tempted by a type R, fit an lsd, and have something that won't constantly feel fragile.

 

[Superninj]

I've done dozens of track days in 1*2's. They soaked it up, light and simple. My r26 and 200 didn't cope as well with track work.
If it's mainly track work, I'd be tempted by a type R, fit an lsd, and have something that won't constantly feel fragile.

What did they struggle with? Civic sounds alright I'm guessing parts are pricey though

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

The Fiesta ST is a great car, but outgunned in that company.

The turbo power of the Megane has its temptations, as the n/a Clio can feel a bit over stretched at times. At least with the Megane you would have more grunt to pass people on the straights. But, more cost and potential stuff to go wrong.

I remember seeing a 197 at a track day a couple of years ago. It had most of its interior but no rear seats, half cage, harnesses, a small drop and track tyres. The guy could obviously drive and he was pretty much the fastest thing there. I do find something very appealing about driving something that's a bit of an underdog.

The gearbox weakness would worry me, but I think I would probably still choose the 197 out of those three. Just something about it.

Though I'd probably go 1*2 Cup, Gripper, good dampers, good tyres and uber cheap maintenance.

 

[Dave LM]

One area of difference between the 172 and R26 was the brakes. I ran both with the same spec, braided lines, RBF600 fluid and CL RC6 pads with fogs removed for venting, discs were standard.
You can stamp on the 172 lap after lap, and eventually to me it feels like the tyres start to give up, where as with the Meg I found at Bedford the pedal went soft, before then later going all the way to the floor. I appreciate that you can go with bigger discs on the Meg, but from memory they were a bell/rotor set for another £500 or so. All depends on if you are willing to push with the extra upgrades.

 

[smith647]

Have you considered an EP3? It's within your budget. Absolutely fantastic cars and the engine responds well to simple modifications. It will need a baffled sump for track though. Probably my only gripe with them is the EPAS.. Really vague with little feedback but I wouldn't let that put you off.

 

[jay.1983]

I have a mk6 fiesta ST and bought it to originally to have a bit of fun with and odd track day BUT soon realised it wouldn't be up to the job!!
It's now just my daily car and I've bought a 172 after advice from various people and I can already tell it's more upto the job and can't wait for the summer!
The 172 is little more prepared than the st, the st is definitely just a daily car unless you have money to throw at it as the posts above

 

[imprezaworks]

Out of those, a nice r26

 

[mikekean]

EP3 is the logical choice if staying relatively standard, can start to get very expensive when modding. You will come back to a clio sport though, they just aren't the same. Almost soulless, big and and absolutely laughable turning circle, great engines though! 172 with K20 engine would be an amazing combination.

 

[imprezaworks]

Pound for pound the clios are great. I fall in and out of love with mine. But then I do suffer with indecisiveness

 

[mikekean]

It's nice to have big toys but not nice having the repair bills if they go wrong, atleast with the 172 you know if it breaks its going to be affordable to fix.

 

[car.crash]

My 2007 Meg 225 is costing me less to run than my 2005 182.

Both were standard and the Clio went through its fair share of parts in 2 years.
6 months into the megane ownership and not a single failure yet.

Mpg isn't far off the Clio with regards to my commute at 31mpg average and I don't hang around.
Tyres and brakes cost more granted but I feel the Meg is the better of the 2 cars.

 

[welshname]

My 2007 Meg 225 is costing me less to run than my 2005 182.

Both were standard and the Clio went through its fair share of parts in 2 years.
6 months into the megane ownership and not a single failure yet.

Mpg isn't far off the Clio with regards to my commute at 31mpg average and I don't hang around.
Tyres and brakes cost more granted but I feel the Meg is the better of the 2 cars.

By running costs that is what he means, not referring to fuel economy or reliability. Purely x part cost more to replace on a meg than on a clio etc.

 

[car.crash]

The parts themselves from Renault don't contain a megane tax and the prices seem on par with any other part.

Just bigger brakes and tyres

 

[Superninj]

Have you considered an EP3? It's within your budget. Absolutely fantastic cars and the engine responds well to simple modifications. It will need a baffled sump for track though. Probably my only gripe with them is the EPAS.. Really vague with little feedback but I wouldn't let that put you off.

EP3 is the logical choice if staying relatively standard, can start to get very expensive when modding. You will come back to a clio sport though, they just aren't the same. Almost soulless, big and and absolutely laughable turning circle, great engines though! 172 with K20 engine would be an amazing combination.

I have been looking into an EP3 as suggested. Mike you hit the nail on the head, I think what I'm really looking for is K20 engine performance in a 172 cup chassis, i'm very on and off with the civic and when people say its souless and has vague steering that really turns me off them. The integra type r looks interesting but don't seem to be used as track cars? i'm guessing thats down to rarity

 

[mikekean]

Never driven a DC5 but I know they use hydro electric steering so I'd imagine they are much better. A lot more expensive though.