NOS

[TDL]

Can anyone explain how NOS works? Lets say your having a racxe from the light on a dual carriageway. IN first gear my clio Mk 2RSi revs to 7200rpm quickly so whats the point in using nos in first gear its only gonna mean the car is bouncing of the limiter quicket than normal due to the sudden power surge? In second itll go on to 69mph, 3rd 95mph etc

What I want to know is do you only use it in 4th or 5th to get more power than there would normally be. In 4th and 5th the torque and power are beginning to pull the car less?

Someone explain please?

 

[Fred@BTM]

Its pumped in through a seperate solenoid. Its a gas that when heated turns into oxygen, so you now have a load of oxygen and not much fuel, so another solenoid is used to add more fuel and even up the mix. (I think, someone else will tell you how it properly works)

 

[BenR]

freds almost there. " solenoids, one fuel one N20. The N20 is under pressure in the tank (around 900psi) so you dant need a pump. The fuel taps of the regular fuel line, but you need another pump for the solenoid. A solenoid is basically an electronic valve which opens when a switch is triggered. There is an arming switch on your dash, which turn on the fuel pump, and a micro switch attatched somewhere to be turned on when you reach full throttle. The N20 comes from the bottle as a liquid, when it reaches heat in the engine, it turns to gas, and braks down urther in to oxygen and nitrogen (which does nothing), SO, you choose a N20 jet size (say 50bhp) and fuel to suit (doing test runs).

 

[Pysco]

True, although you only need a second feul pump on very high power systems.

Just one question for 172 lbs/ft Tourque, why you write it as 172 lbs/ft, ie 172 pounds per foot, tourques mesured in ftlbs, ie foot pounds, its a multiple, not a divide, sorryu to be picky.

 

[Pysco]

and i cant spell for toffee i know!

 

[BenR]

well, my N20 setup is running on a carbed car so the pump aint strong enough.

 

[Pysco]

ok, sorry, didnt realise. Should have said on injection cars you wont need a second pump apart for v. high power setups.

 

[Nick Read]

Yeah thats pretty much it, on an injection car it doesnt need an extra pump, it just taps in on the regulated fuel line.

I find that hitting the gas in first gear is pretty pointless, putting 200bhp through the front wheels is just gonna smoke the tyres or the clutch - both expensive habits!

I switch it on in 2nd gear usually once the traction is solid.

 

[BenR]

well, in my little fiesta, when i turnit on, it only equates to about 115bhp....so i do it in first as it feels great. And i showed aaronc, an i was surprised to say the least that i could stay in front of a 16V.....mega....minf you, the car is a fair bit lighter...being made of tin foil.....

 

[benworley]

I know everyone talks about NOS all the time and I should be able to find the answer if I search hard, although I cant see it that easily....

Is it OK to put NOS in a completely normal 1.4?

I havent got induction kit or zorst, but I was wondering if it would kill the engine due to the much stronger explosions.

My engines done 66000, would it be too old and knackered to bother with?

Im saving up for a 5GTT conversion but for the moment whattya say?

 

[Glennclio16v]

If your saving up for a 5GTT conversion does it matter if your engine goes pop!?!

 

[alex_e3]

Ive often wondered myself exactly how NOS works.

When you press the button to release it, how much of the gas gets released? Is the amount released regulated or is it the the length of time you press the button?

Also whats direct port nitrous injection? Is it a different type from the one Nick has or is that just the full name the the one you have?

 

[bluerxe]

One button to arm it. Another switch on the throttle to sense when fully open. As long as the system is armed, youre at full throttle, and you have some left in the bottle then NO2 will be fed to the engine.

You can also get systems that feed diffeent amounts at different throttle positions thus more of a progressive feed of NO2.

Not sure on the direct port stuff.

 

[BenR]

direct port injection is when you have 4 injectors (one per cylinder) with one in each inlet port, rather just before it on the branch of the inlet manifold. Its drilled and tapped in there so that each piston racieves a much more accurate and even dose. A standard 1.4 engine will take ita the 1.4 bottom end is rather strong.
the amount of N20 and fuel is regulated by jets (long hollow needles of a cetain diameter) in the solenoids.
i have a single fogger which mixes the N20 and fuel through one nozzle at the top of teh carb, so it will be evenly distributed between all cylinders, hopefully. on the 1.4, you can simply put the fogger at the beginning of the airbox.....after the filter. Direct port takesa bit more seting up, but you can inject larger amounts

 

[alex_e3]

bluerxe so is it as soon as you arm it and put your foot down it will inject some? Whats goin on in fast & furious with them pressing the buttons then? Or is this a different system of NOS completely?

Ben not contemplating getting some! Well maybe a few years down the line when ive had a valver for ages (still saving!).

 

[Pysco]

In Fast and the Furious, and Gone in 60 seconds, they have the arm switches as toggle switches then instead of have a switch activated by the throttle theyve got a button on the steering wheel to do the same job, this is ok but means youve gotta hold it down all the time you wanna use it, which is harder than it sounds and also in FWD drive cars as the N2O comes on and increases(if youve got a progresive controler) you get quite server torque steer, so you really need to have both hands firmly on the wheel and be paying attention.

 

[TDL]

Sorry guys - Its actually 200NM torque now - have to change my call sign.

Simon NOS can you give me some advice on getting the NOS fitted to my car - Im mad about getting it - I want 225 BHP at the ready !! - Where can I get a kit from being over in Northern Ireland here!

 

[TDL]

SimonNOS - what size of N20 kit did u go for - was it a 50 or 75BHP jet!!

 

[BenR]

SImon, have you got N20? its wicked aint it!
200NM: I would buy the parts seperatly as you will save money rather than buying a kit. Buy 2 solenoids, a micro switch, a toggle switch (used as arming swith) a T peice to tap the fuel line, Lots of nylon pipe (1.5mm-2mm) and to save money, use a C02 fire extinguisher to hold the N20 (and then you can tell the bab its a plumbed in fire system), you will also nee a selection of N20 and fuel jets to set it up without detonation......and since your car will haea knock sensor, you wont need to fiddle with ignition timing. I can draw a diagram and send some pics if you want.

 

[TDL]

Ben

Thanks for the advice but I wouldnt have a clue how to install the part. Ive got the money for the kit but dont know where to get it fitted over here!

 

[BenR]

fitting is surprisingly easy. I did it first go, although you may need to fabricare a micro switch adaptor plate or get one made. I also made a bracket to hold all the fuel pumps/solenoids on so that i can unbolt it and take it off in 2 mins. Safe for the insurance man!
all you need is one ground wire, plumb everything in, conect the switches up in sequence and hey presto, a N20 system.

 

[Pysco]

I aint got NOS yet, but read up a lot o it and have met and spoke to Trev. (Wizard of NOS) from Highpower, theres nothig this guy doesnt know about N2O.

Id agree with ben, buy the parts seperatly and youll save money, but I would seriously recomend you got the solenoids and injector from Highpower Systems, not that I work for them, there just by FAR the best.

Ben, where did you get your nylon pipe from, Ive been planing on using steel braided stuff, but nylon would be cheaper?

I think the highest you can go on a valver is 50bhp or 100bhp with a progressive controller, not sure about the 172 though, if you go to www.noswizard.com and ask on the bulliten board you def. get a response.

 

[bluerxe]

[172lbs/ft aka 200Nm]
How did you get 150bhp from your 1.6 16v?? IS this the 1999/2000 model RSi?

 

[BenR]

i got the wizard solenoids too, but i now whish i had ordered frmo teh states from holley (NOS systems) or similar since they are far better quality and cheaper. The blue and red solenoids from wizzard tend to be a bit weak and the aluminium can strip pretty easy. Some satiless ones from the states are better.
you dont need steel braided stuff really, i just use thick nylon black pipe. I can take a pic and show you.
The progressivr controller is a good idea, but a much cheaper more simple idea is to run two set of solenoids so that you can arm the first (running 50bhp jets) and when your up to speed, flip the switch on the second set (another 50bhp) and so its effectively a progressive system....get the idea? its what most people use in the states...but linked up to those twin buttons on steering wheels.

 

[BenR]

BTW 200nm, if you do have 200nm torque, then this would equate to:
200 x 8.85 = 1770 lbs/in
1770/12 = 147.5 lbs/ft

 

[Pysco]

Ben, you really think the Wizard soleniods are not as good as the NOS ones? I read somewhere that a lot of the american companys use the wizard solenoids as theyre much better and NOS are considering doing this too, but I may be wrong. Ive read a lot of horror stories about the american ones getting stuck open or giving up all together.

Ive already got a progressive controller waiting to be wired up, your idea would be a progressive system of sorts but using the controller means you can get a truely smooth delivery and it allows you to use the N2O off the lights, plus its nicer to your clutch and gearbox.

A pic of your system would be great, thanks. What injector you using?

 

[BenR]

well, i know, its just a simple solution thats all.
The wizzard solenoids do work well, i have had no probs, but their construction is just cheap and tacky lookin.
i use a simple fogger ( N20 out the vertical plane and fuel out the horisontal plane) above the carb so that all cylinders get a theoretical equal amount....but the no.4 cylinder tends to run a bit hot and lean....so i added a tad more fuel and knocked 1 deg of the ignition timing.

 

[Nick Read]

I cant even remember whats been answered here and what hasnt. I think Bens answered most of it.

At the moment Im running 60bhp jets on a throttle switch and arming switch. Seems like Fast & Furious was a bit too dramatic about how it works for obvious reasons, a few contradictions, eg if they had a direct port system and bloody laptops everywhere, why did they need the crude buttons on the steering wheel? you dont need 2 stages if you have any other form of control.

Progressive controller is a good idea if you use the system strictly for 1/4 miling where you can take the time to dial it in and experiment with different settings - start power, end power, rise time, launch delay etc. In practice, if youre out on the traffic lights grand prix, its pretty straightforward (at least in my Clio) - no gas in 1st gear to get the traction going and concentrate on balancing the throttle and clutch, floor it in 2nd then switch in the gas and feel the power. No progressive controller required.

But I was thinking I want more, you do get used to it quite quickly, but I dont want to fork out for a progressive just yet and Ive got enough bloody boxes and wiring all over my car already! So its either get some bigger jets sorted this week or go for a simple two stage system.

 

[BenR]

i use gas in first cause its a 4 speed so a bit tall. And the front just squirms all over, its great, and the noise is like something trying to excape the engine. And then the lovely smell of burnt N20!!!! its like sweet strawberries!
a 2 stage system would be easiest, then you could have a 30-40bhp one on constantly from 1st, then say a +60bhp stage attatched to a button on the steering wheel, so you can turn it on and off from say 4000rpm then off for the gearchange then on etc......what size bottle do you have. I got twin 9 pounders...and they last ages.....tried with a mate the laughing gas effect. Closed the cubboard door, open the tank.....no effect, even aftyer a fair bit. silly i know, probably because its industrial grade.

 

[JJ172]

NickRead - what make of system do you run? Have you had any detrimental effects from running NOS as yet? Is the power delivery ON NOS brutal?

 

[TDL]

Thanks for the calculation Ben. I knew I had made a balls with my call sign since I joined the discussion forum months ago, it seems i cant change my details anywhere!!!! 147.5Ib/ft it is !!

 

[TDL]

Blue RXE!!

Its the Mk2 Rsi 1.6 16V.

It was actually giving 123BHP when I first got it as standard at the flywheel!! Got it chipped full sebring exhaust, green sealed induction kit, Ported and polished, uprated valve s and springs, reprofiled cams giving 287 degree lift, sparkplugs, Mobil 1, magic tree....etc Its there are there abouts. Check ouit the Mecaservice 1.6 i6v car - its the same job except theres is 140BHP odd with a 0-60 dash 0f 8.2. Ive had mine quicker on the flat and thats with 17s. Just to check i raced a Accord type R 2.2 litre 210BHP and kept with him to 3rd gear at 68mph!! It must figure then!!

 

[TDL]

Sorry slight misprint -it was my fiance racing the Accord!!! Shes worse than me!!

 

[Pysco]

Ben, whered you get your nylon pipe from? and how much was it?

Im only gonna be using a progresive controller so i can safely use 100bhp jets, even in a two stage system this wouldnt do the clutch or gearbox much good.

Nicks right about 1/4 mileing though, it would be a lot of fuss to set it up for traffic light grand prixs.

Anybody know how much increase in torque N2O provides? All the kits a mesaured in bhp increase, but we all knows its torque that makes you accelerate.

 

[Pysco]

Another thing to consider is to add a second stage youd need another set of solenoids and another injector, plus the woring and plumbing. This would come close to £250 if you got the parts from HighPower. I only paid £240 for my progressive controller(second hand anolouge).

 

[BenR]

i personally couldnt be bothered to set up a progresive controller.
The nylon pipe was just given to me, so i dont know how much it is. But ask wizzards and i sure they will have some....and dont let them balls you into braided.

Torque would be hard to calculate as the N20 injection is by volume. SO at 2000rpm for example, any given volume would be divied into 2000 parts, at 5000rpm, 500 parts. SO you would get less torque at higher rpm. The progressive controller would fix this though. And the jolt aint that harsh....unless its 100bhp full whack.

 

[Nick Read]

the nylon pipe isnt that much, in fact nitrous solutions (who sell all the HighPower kit) wouldnt sell you braided even if you asked for it...something about Yankee overkill!

But braided really isnt needed you just want something thatll take 2000psi burst pressure which nylon pipe will do easily. Once you go to rubber you are talking expensive pipe to hold that kind of pressure.

 

[Nick Read]

and the other reply -

I use a High Power system supplied by Nitrous Solutions, no ill effects yet unless you count two burnt out clutches, but thats par for the course when you do a lot of standing starts.

The engine internals and plugs have had a few bits of carbon knocked off but apart from that no other signs of stress. Its only really brutal when the bottle is up to temp anyway, anything less than 30 degrees c and its pretty tame, you can feel it but it wont rock your world until the bottle is nice and warm and pushing 925psi. And in this country you rarely get an ambient temperature of 30 c, so its a case of dunking the bottle in a hot sink then hoping it doesnt cool down too quickly. A fish tank thermometer is a good way of keeping an eye on the bottle temp then Ive got a gauge on my A-pillar so I can watch the nitrous pressure while Im driving and I know how much of a blast Im gonna get if I hit the gas.

 

[Pysco]

Sorry to keep pestering you Ben/Nick, but do you know what size threads the Wizard Solenoids have on them and what size threads the wizard injectors have?

Thanks.

 

[BenR]

I use a fogger on a home made brace, so its not threaded in. The solenoids thread? what do you mean by this? the side of the connector where the pipe comes out?. I use a 13mm spanner....but dunno to tell you the truth.