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Open Induction Kits - that bad



K

Kirves



Ive been following this forum for a while and know what you all think of induction kits. The thing is, are cone kits really that bad? A local tuning shop recommended a replacement chip and a K&N to give an extra 10bhp, and I cant see why he would lie????

I cant see myself every getting a Viper, so should I buy a panel filter, get a K&N cone or just save my money!! Cheers guys.
 
K

Kirves



Thats good to know, I can appreciate it gets hot under the bonnet but does it help if I leave the cold air feed for the standard box in place?
 
B

BRUN

  Skoda Fabia vRS


Quote: Originally posted by Kirves on 04 September 2005

Thats good to know, I can appreciate it gets hot under the bonnet but does it help if I leave the cold air feed for the standard box in place?
Click to expand...
the OE cold air feed is never a proper cold air feed like you would put in place for a cone filter, it isnt directed towards the front, just in a place where the air will the colder, without the suck of the engine no air will find its way up that pipe at all, it would be useless
 
Steviant

Steviant

  Renaultsport 220T


The ITG panel filter works well, for me. And at £40, is a little cheaper than the Viper? For the open cone type to work most effectively, you need a proper cold air feed, like the Racing clio cup cars.


:)
 
B

BradRT

  BMW M3 - For Sale!


dont put an open cone kit in an automatic... it made my engine run lean!!

oh, i forgot... this advice wouldnt be useful to anyone on here! lol
 
B

bsimmer3000



i used to use open induction kit and noise was just amzing and performance from what i could tell was better than standard airbox and filter. but only reason i used open ended was due to space and the low deep basey roar
 
K

Kirves



I guess the ITG panel filter doesnt alter the sound at all, can you feel the difference between an OEM filter and a decent aftermarket one? Not after anything earth-shattering, but it would be nice to feel where the money had gone!
 
L

Lagerlout

  VaVa


a cone filter will probably make good results on a RR as the bonnet is usually up, which means the hot air from the engine is not building up in the engine bay...... Sit in traffic for a bit and then try and boot off with an open filter....:sick:

Sound nice though.
 
B

BRUN

  Skoda Fabia vRS


Quote: Originally posted by Vinnyc19 on 04 September 2005

Are their any enclosures you can buy to protect the K&N cone from heat?
Click to expand...
yea, its called a standard air box, think about it, if you box it up thats all your doing

Green do a pretty decent heat shield though thats about a tenner
 
D

DAVE_RSi

  don't


10bhp lol

he was lying alrite, that or he was stupid and believed everything hes ever been told

2-3bhp most is more likely on a k&n open kit, tbh most ppl dont see the point in paying £££ just for a noise that can make the car slower

i wouldnt buy a kit brand new, 2nd hand maybe as then at least its not such a waste of money if its no good
 
Chris n nic

Chris n nic

  Nippy white cup


I ran a 14.1 @97.5 @ York in 27degs with an open IK so they probably arent too bad lol...mind you I might have gone faster with a sealed unit!

Chris
 
Chris n nic

Chris n nic

  Nippy white cup


Yep with no interior/carpet etc and one bucket seat...I just took the rear seats out on mine...still an amazing time for minimal mods

Chris
 
K

Kirves



Just to clarify everyone, the tuner said 10bhp with a chip as well. And he didnt promise anything, just said hed "seen it happen" on a 172.

Anyway, if I bite the bullet and shell out 200 quid would anyone be able to give me a numpty-guide to installing a shielded IK? This is for a bloke who has never changed oil or a tyre in his life (I put a 57i on a Corsa but that hardly counts does it!!!)
 
Daz

Daz



The Open Induction kit on my Williams was terrible.

Sounded mint and was Okish in the cold - but a bit of sun and it just zapped power really bad. Felt proper flat midrange :(

Does get hot under a Williams bonnet, tho.
 
R

rich[182]



ITG panel filters are good, if you go k&n cone then get the heatshield from green for £10 and a good air feed
 
J

jimbo



open induction kits are the spawn of the devil!

cold air feeds are pointless. the filter is open, sat somewhere in the middle of a very hot engine bay. youve got all that filter exposed and a tiny little tube providing cold air, wheres the filter gonna draw all its air from? all around it, where theres barely any cool air at all, just all the hot stuff. you might drop the temperature a bit, but still nowhere near ambient, youre drawing in hotter air regardless. so youve already offset the "extra flow" the induction kit is providing with the lower density of the air

relocating the filter to the front of the engine bay helps, shielding it off from the engine bay helps even more, enclosing it is less effort and the ideal way though, so its £70 on something that will lose you power over the std airbox, or gain a little if the stock airbox was REALLY bad, or £150-300 on an enclosed kit that will definitely see gains, how large depends on how bad the stock airbox was though

there isnt a single application in the world though where an open IK is beneficial to power compared with mildly modifying the stock airbox to remove any major restrictions, and giving it a better air supply, or just biting the bullet and fitting an enclosed setup like a Maxogen or a Viper to start with
 
Phill1978

Phill1978

  MKIII 138


Quote: Originally posted by jimbo on 06 September 2005


open induction kits are the spawn of the devil!

cold air feeds are pointless. the filter is open, sat somewhere in the middle of a very hot engine bay. youve got all that filter exposed and a tiny little tube providing cold air, wheres the filter gonna draw all its air from? all around it, where theres barely any cool air at all, just all the hot stuff. you might drop the temperature a bit, but still nowhere near ambient, youre drawing in hotter air regardless. so youve already offset the "extra flow" the induction kit is providing with the lower density of the air

relocating the filter to the front of the engine bay helps, shielding it off from the engine bay helps even more, enclosing it is less effort and the ideal way though, so its £70 on something that will lose you power over the std airbox, or gain a little if the stock airbox was REALLY bad, or £150-300 on an enclosed kit that will definitely see gains, how large depends on how bad the stock airbox was though

there isnt a single application in the world though where an open IK is beneficial to power compared with mildly modifying the stock airbox to remove any major restrictions, and giving it a better air supply, or just biting the bullet and fitting an enclosed setup like a Maxogen or a Viper to start with
Click to expand...
^^^ agree completley. openm kits are pants and best left to boyracers who want thier 1.2s to sound like a scoob. tbh they just roar a bit and dont have a lovely multilayerd or deep sound because its still a 1.2. the roar is the turbulance of the inconsitent airflow from around the filter.

and enclosed one is better. however a free flowing exhaust i.e just a sports cat will relase the same bhp as an enclosed induction IMO and probably sound quite nice without being boomy of over the top.
 
JPW172

JPW172

  CLIO


my k+n induction kit was free and to be honest i cant say anything bad about it...gotta love the noise tho:devilish:
 
K

Kirves



Thanks for your opinion Jimbo. OK, I think you guys have convinced me to save the 80 quid or whatever the open kit would cost. 2 more questions then:

a) Would a Viper sound any different to the stock airbox?

b) How clever do I have to be fitting the pipe that comes with the kit, or would the cold air pipe be OK "hanging" down the towards the ground (obviously Id attach it somewhere!).

Sorry if this sounds really dumb, dont want to waste my money and I know you guys/girls will set me straight.

If anyone has a real dumbies guide to this stuff then let me know, if I could fit it all myself Id feel a lot better about the cost!

Cheers
 
J

jimbo



a) a little, but it wont be a roaring noise like you can get with an open kit

b) just locate the pipe somewhere in or behind the front bumper/slam panel. some people remove foglights and the like to fit it, but you can just as easily find a gap somewhere and cable tie it, so long as its secured it doesnt really matter. i wouldnt want to have it TOO low down though (e.g. below the level of the bumper) in case you drive through a rather large puddle one day lol
 
gh172

gh172



Couple of years back I fitted the Hillpower kit, which is an open filter and ali heat shield, plus a cold air feed pipe that runs to a scoop under the front wheelarch. Certainly made plenty of noise but no obvious gains.

Eventually I sold the IK and replaced the OEM airbox and filter. However, I kept the cold air feed and just stuffed the pipe into the opening in the airbox. Its not sealed, but not a bad fit.

In this configuration the car runs much better than before or with the IK. Only other mod is a Group N ECU. Ive run like this for about 9 months with no problems, so I guess its not a bad setup. Sure that an exhaust would help, but no rush.

Gareth
 
R

rich[182]



Quote: Originally posted by Kirves on 07 September 2005
Thanks Jimbo. Anyone know where to get a Viper for less than 240 quid????


I think www.bbperformancetuning.com do them for approx £210 inc vat
 
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