People who know F4R Engines

[reedy107]

My 172 cup has got 68k on the clock and im gonna be ripping the engine out this weekend to see what is what as it has been very neglected and to do the cam belt , dephaser etc, so just wondered what these engines are like at this sort of millege , what wears out first, do shells last a while, what about rings and bores


How long do the cams last before needing to be replaced

or anything else I should know :S

cheers Ben

 

[Nick172Cup]

Completely determines on how it's been serviced. Every 6 months it'll go to 120k plus it no problems, not serviced for a couple years it'll be tired engine that'll eat oil etc with less than 80k

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ive seen them detroy the pistons and spin the shells at less miles than yours has, and have also seen them do 150K miles with no problems at all.


To give you a slightly better hint, we just need the following simple bits of information from you:

Details of how often the oil was changed, and what oil was used.
Details of how long each journey it performed during its entire life was, and a plot of the revs and temp and AFR during each of those journeys.


And then its just a matter of guesswork on things like if you got lucky with the piston ring lands or not.






Seriously though, common failures are:
Cam timing done wrong effects performance
Bad mapping washing bores and ruining rings
Bad mapping causing leaness that leads to ringland failure (they are poorly made pistons)


But in the main, if well maintained, left on a sensible map, and not thrashed from cold, you should get no problems at all, they are overally very reliable.

 

[mikeh]

164k here, no significant oil usage and still pulling strong.

The car had FRSH when I bought it at 134k and has had the oil changed every 5-10k since.

Watch it fail at Brands on Friday now.

 

[John Gordon]

164k here, no significant oil usage and still pulling strong.

The car had FRSH when I bought it at 134k and has had the oil changed every 5-10k since.

Watch it fail at Brands on Friday now.

I thought I was one of the higher on 142k.

 

[mikeh]

There was Nick's old Trophy on here that finally threw a rod at 180 something.

I don't think I've seen one higher than mine, other than that. There's a highest mileage thread somewhere.

 

[reedy107]

I have no service history at all !!!

The oil filter has rust on !! So god knows when it was last serviced.

I suppose its a case of ripping it apart and see what is what tbh

when i drove her the 301miles back from bradford it didnt use any oil at all so thats a bonus i guess

 

[loggyboy]

Like with most things, if aint broke................ rag the f**k out of it till it is. Then deal with it.
IMO When cars are as old as most 172/182s are now, and parts and cheap and easy to get hold of, spending a fortune on preventive maintainance is a false economy. Not including the obvious things like Cam/aux belts of course as its silly to ignore service intervals on them.

 

[mikeh]

Indeed.

You can pick up another engine for £200-400 generally. Do the belts, change the oil and rag the crap out of it.

 

[KillaZ]

I thought I was one of the higher on 142k.

Guess I beat you there, mine's on 282k now

Old ph1 from a former Cliosport member though. Dunno if he has the same name, but he is known as Epsilon.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Guess I beat you there, mine's on 282k now

Old ph1 from a former Cliosport member though. Dunno if he has the same name, but he is known as Epsilon.

Is that KMs or Miles?

If its KMs, then that equates to 176K miles, which a couple of people on here have also had, I dont think anyone has hit 200K miles yet though on here.

 

[KillaZ]

My bad, metrics and stuff, that's 282k Km's yes

I will definitely not hit the 300k Km's, as I am only driving like 100 km's in the weekend.

 

[John Gordon]

Some pretty High mile ph1's here in NL then.

I wonder if I can hit the 200k Mile mark. I drive it fairly sensible on the roads because my drive to work has a 100KPH Trajectcontrole. It does however do a few track stints, although I do try to be mechanically sympathetic. No bouncing off rev limiters etc.

fingers crossed!

 

[car.crash]

118k with poor service history.
Still runs great.

 

[JamesWilson]

Probably worth sticking an engine flush through it before you drop the oil out if its not been serviced in a while.

Ive got one engine on 66k that was very clean inside when i opened it up had the oil changed every 6-8k, the other one at 85k was black inside due to burning oil and poor maintenance.

 

[John Gordon]

Probably worth sticking an engine flush through it before you drop the oil out if its not been serviced in a while.

Ive got one engine on 66k that was very clean inside when i opened it up had the oil changed every 6-8k, the other one at 85k was black inside due to burning oil and poor maintenance.

I seem to remember reading that on older engines it can do more damage than good when using a flush. Unsettling old carbon deposits that are effectivly filling gaps etc?

I could be wrong, just curious.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I seem to remember reading that on older engines it can do more damage than good when using a flush. Unsettling old carbon deposits that are effectivly filling gaps etc?

I could be wrong, just curious.

Yeah after a flush you can find that seals that are old but so gummed up with deposits they dont leak then start doing.

 

[reedy107]

I do have a engine flush so I will use it and see what happens but I do want a fresh engine when im finished and want have any leaks
If I can build rs turbo engines with out them leaking then this one can defo be done lol

 

[mikeh]

I'd avoid an engine flush unless you were doing it with each oil change from new.

As people have already stated, they can make seemingly good seals start to leak and there is a chance of them shifting but not breaking down deposits that then block smaller oil ways.

 

[JamesWilson]

I seem to remember reading that on older engines it can do more damage than good when using a flush. Unsettling old carbon deposits that are effectivly filling gaps etc?

I could be wrong, just curious.

Yeah after a flush you can find that seals that are old but so gummed up with deposits they dont leak then start doing.

He's rebuilding it anyway isn't he, so new seals would surely be used? Might make life a little easier cleaning bits up flushing first.

 

[ben_r1]

I love this thread, it makes mine seem young at 98k!

 

[Chip-mk1]

He's rebuilding it anyway isn't he, so new seals would surely be used? Might make life a little easier cleaning bits up flushing first.

If he is rebuilding it then there is no need to flush, he can clean it properly while its apart.

 

[Coops Mk1]

just about to clock 121k here, full history and oil changes every 6k since I've owned it. about to do the aux belt this weekend and then it'll be good till cambelts due late next year

 

[reedy107]

Well i bought the flush before i was going to rebuild it anyway. So i may as well use it for the sake of 2.99 who cares.

And yes i will be using new seals and gaskets.

Do most people use dealer for gaskets and seals ? Or is there any other specialists and cheap prices around ?

 

[Fred@BTM]

dealer only, non gen stuff leaks every single time

 

[Dr HMS Derv Destroyer]

Crank seal fly wheel side will be fun, leaky leaky

 

[reedy107]

Crank seal fly wheel side will be fun, leaky leaky

They normally are mate. But if fitted correctly should b spot on.


Ben