PH1/2 172 cambelt kit differences?

[Andrew Cooke]

as the title, what's the difference, or more to the point how do I know which kit I need? Is it head dependant, if so how can I tell by looking at them?

I've got a PH2 engine, but a choice of 3 heads, so naturally I want to be certain that I mix and match the right bits.

btw, has anyone managed to work out how to identify 100% which engine a head came from? The 3 heads here all have different exhaust ports:

1 - smallish rectangular ports
2 - smallish rectangular ports tapered out to the oval of the manifold
3 - larger oval ports

is it possible that one of them is a 182 head?

 

[ashy_gtt]

Andy, the difference between the two kits is just one of the idler pulleys, I can never remember which is which but the ID of the bearing is larger on one of the kits....

Ive got a few heads in the garage, one is a 182 head and the other is a 172 but I'd have to check the ID to see if its a phase 1 or 2. I'll take a pic of the exhaust ports and upload them if it'll help...

Heres the thread I started on the cam belt kit when I was wondering the same thing.... THREAD

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Ok, so it looks like the different idler may be on the block rather than the idler on the head. Thinking about it James had a problem with the wrong one on his engine, maybe I can see something in his project thread

 

[Fred@BTM]

you can actually use either on either, BUT and its a HUGE BUT, you must have the correct spacers to match the pulleys, generally speaking if you don't know what's what ask one of us first!

 

[Andrew Cooke]

you can actually use either on either, BUT and its a HUGE BUT, you must have the correct spacers to match the pulleys, generally speaking if you don't know what's what ask one of us first!

Ok, that makes sense, I only have a PH1 idler here, but it's clear from the makings on the heads that one of them has a smaller diameter spacer against the head. I couldn't measure a difference in the position of the hole, so that'll be why

Just to confirm, it's the idler on the head that's different?

 

[Fred@BTM]

no its the idler on the block thats different (the idler with the grooves)

 

[ashy_gtt]

View attachment 44696View attachment 44697

Right so the two pics above are a random engine that I have no info / history on, looks like oval ports which have been machined / ported out. Looking at the date on the sticker I'd say it was a phase 1 engine?

View attachment 44698View attachment 44699

These two are two other engines I had, the yellow one is a 172 engine but no engine code, the other one is definately a 182 engine.

Any help?

 

[Fred@BTM]

^yeah first 2 pics are phs1, second 2 pics are phs2 172/182

 

[T.Trophy]

Did you just pop into the F4R graveyard to take those pics? I swear to god I've never met someone with such a fetish for clio engines

 

[Andrew Cooke]

I found a date code on 2 of the heads, this was on the inlet manifold face, below and between the inlet ports 1-2 counting from the cambelt.

1 - smallish rectangular ports - dated 30/11/02
2 - smallish rectangular ports tapered out to the oval of the manifold - dated 07/02/03
3 - larger oval ports - PH1

do those dates shed any light on it?

 

[Fred@BTM]

its renault mate, pull whatever out of the parts bin

 

[Andrew Cooke]

no its the idler on the block thats different (the idler with the grooves)

Ok, thanks Fred, got it now

 

[Fred@BTM]

i'll double double check tomorrow at work as i have a phs1 engine on the bench

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Ashy, does the 182 head have a taper into the rectangular port (~4mm chamfer) or is it flat like the yellow head?

btw, what do you use to post those pics? Whatever it is won't enlarge on my PC, been bugging me for a while

 

[ashy_gtt]

have you got a popup blocker on? they open in a pop up window like on piston heads.... ish...

I'll upload them on RTOC if you want?

 

[Andrew Cooke]

have you got a popup blocker on? they open in a pop up window like on piston heads.... ish...

I'll upload them on RTOC if you want?

that'll be it, it's not just this site, I just get a spinning swirly waity thing

 

[ashy_gtt]

HERE they are...

 

[ashy_gtt]

Are you going to test them on your flow bench? Be usefull to know if I'd be better using the Ph1 head on my new build... :evil:

 

[ashy_gtt]

Ashy, does the 182 head have a taper into the rectangular port (~4mm chamfer) or is it flat like the yellow head?

No it looks the same as the yellow one, heres another shot of it HERE

 

[Andrew Cooke]

thanks Ashy, it looks like the 182 has the chamfer I was talking about.

I'm not set up to measure exhaust ports. I have seen 2 flow bench tests on clio sport heads, one flowed 80CFM at 11mm lift, and the other 110CFM, I'll let you work out which is which.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

No it looks the same as the yellow one, heres another shot of it HERE

ahh, Ok, just an optical firkin then. I'll get my camera out...

 

[ashy_gtt]

one flowed 80CFM at 11mm lift, and the other 110CFM, I'll let you work out which is which.

Interesting, there must be a difference in the size of the valves aswell then? I'll get some pics when I strip the engines down and take some measurements

 

[Andrew Cooke]

I've given it a bit of a clean, and taken a pic, it looks like someone has been 'shaping' it with a dremel

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Interesting, there must be a difference in the size of the valves aswell then? I'll get some pics when I strip the engines down and take some measurements

no, valves are the same.

 

[ashy_gtt]

I've given it a bit of a clean, and taken a pic, it looks like someone has been 'shaping' it with a dremel

oh yeah, none of mine look like that.... maybe someone has done that in their shed?

 

[Andrew Cooke]

oh yeah, none of mine look like that.... maybe someone has done that in their shed?

looking at it now I've cleaned it up I'd say that's the case. No idea why though, the perp must have had a screw loose

 

[Tom@JMS]

Valves are the same.

That head you have their Andy has certainly been fettled with, looks like a horrible job tbh.

 

[Andrew Cooke]

Valves are the same.

That head you have their Andy has certainly been fettled with, looks like a horrible job tbh.

yeah, you have to wonder why though, Renault would have put that step there to reduce reversion, that chamfer will have reduced that, but done nothing for flow. It looks to be the only change made, so it'll be fine to play with.