Ph1 Throttle Cable Replacement...help and advice

[KitsonRis]

Need to sort out the throttle cable on the Ph1.....its useless! I am not sure if it just needs using after it has been left without use since September.

Did a bit of searching and found a few things and methods, but what I was going to do was cut the one end off at the pedal (think this end has the nipple), attach the new cable and then pull it through. Is this the best way? But looking at pictures of the kit, does the outer need changing too?
Seen another method that says take the arch linig out the driver's side and fanny around with it there.
But my step dad has now rememebered he has changed the cable, so the current one is not older than 4 years old. Is this normal? He did say the cable run was awful as it goes through the bulk head in an awkward position.

Also if this doesn't work I think I may just buy a new TB, was looking at the "enlarged" ones on eBay. I know there will be zero performance increase, but it was more that it has been reconditioned, and would rather swap than clean mine (lazy I know!!)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/clio-172-...569601?hash=item5b1f06e581:g:d4wAAMXQgPFRG7WA

 

[KitsonRis]

Actaully a good post by Rob I have just found, will order a cable tomorrow
http://www.cliosport.net/threads/fao-all-ph1-172-owners-throttle.587942/#post-7844474
The way to change the cable is described on Rob's post is a lot clearer than what I found on other searches!

 

[barnesautos]

The eBay enlarged throttle ?

Don't look enlarged to me .

Here's an enlargement of mine , had a new butterfly made to go with it .
See the comparison below .

 

[KitsonRis]

The one in the link says enlarged and has a new butterly CNC'd to go in it. I haven't properly looked at mine to know by sight if it looks enlarged. Did you do yours yourself then?
Is there a notable difference in performance with it? Presume need some re-map or something else to get the most out of it.

 

[barnesautos]

Yes had mine done a few years back now , had matched inlets with cams , was nippy . Saw 178-180 on the rollers.

 

[barnesautos]

I've had the occasional sticky throttle at times .
First is took apart the throttle housing and squirted thin 3in1 oil into the spindle shaft where the potentiometer sits and also inside the air tract. I left it so it had to run down into the spindle .
This was very effective.
A year or so later I fitted a OE cable as it was getting stuff and all has been good since .

Above is how I attacked it .
Drivers side wheel arch liner out , and the heat shield off to .

 

[Andyman]

TB spring. Always the same on ph1s - about time someone developed a replacement uprated spring lol

 

[KitsonRis]

I've had the occasional sticky throttle at times .
First is took apart the throttle housing and squirted thin 3in1 oil into the spindle shaft where the potentiometer sits and also inside the air tract. I left it so it had to run down into the spindle .
This was very effective.
A year or so later I fitted a OE cable as it was getting stuff and all has been good since . View attachment 145752View attachment 145753

Above is how I attacked it .
Drivers side wheel arch liner out , and the heat shield off to .

I missed this post the other day! Good pictures, that will help later. If the new cable doesn't work I am just going to get a reconditioned TB, maybe that "enlarged" one because it will definitely add 4.82502bhp 😂 haha
But the way you can stop the car revving when it has stuck by pulling up on the pedal does suggest to me it's cable and not TB.

 

[barnesautos]

I missed this post the other day! Good pictures, that will help later. If the new cable doesn't work I am just going to get a reconditioned TB, maybe that "enlarged" one because it will definitely add 4.82502bhp 😂 haha
But the way you can stop the car revving when it has stuck by pulling up on the pedal does suggest to me it's cable and not TB.

I think once you fit the cable , you will be supposed how easy the throttle moves and feels .
Quite poss you won't need the new TB .
Nice write up [emoji106] it's coming along nicely .

 

[KitsonRis]

I think once you fit the cable , you will be supposed how easy the throttle moves and feels .
Quite poss you won't need the new TB .
Nice write up [emoji106] it's coming along nicely .

I hope so, it does feel as if the cable isnt doing anything. Driving in traffic is a nightmare as you can't do low revs.
Got the cable now so with your pictures and the post I found should be easy enough.

Thanks, kept me busy the winter and out of trouble! Few tinkering things to do over the summer but the larger stuff is done now.

 

[KitsonRis]

Job done!!! Pedal feels a lot better. Will give it a proper test tomorrow.
Although the clips that hold the wheel arch lining on are a pig, may have pulled a few of the heads off.......will need replacing those!

 

[Andyman]

I missed this post the other day! Good pictures, that will help later. If the new cable doesn't work I am just going to get a reconditioned TB, maybe that "enlarged" one because it will definitely add 4.82502bhp 😂 haha
But the way you can stop the car revving when it has stuck by pulling up on the pedal does suggest to me it's cable and not TB.

Do a search. It's nearly always the throttle body spring. Most common fault on a ph1 172. Folk normally suggest clean the body out then move onto the ISCV but it always comes back to the spring. It gets worn with age, loses its tension and rubs on the black cable disk causing it to stick. Easy spotted by the spring being shiny where its rubbing.

 

[KitsonRis]

Do a search. It's nearly always the throttle body spring. Most common fault on a ph1 172. Folk normally suggest clean the body out then move onto the ISCV but it always comes back to the spring. It gets worn with age, loses its tension and rubs on the black cable disk causing it to stick. Easy spotted by the spring being shiny where its rubbing.

Changed the cable on Friday and it seems to have worked. If it gets worse then I will have to look at the TB

 

[KitsonRis]

People might read this thread in the future so I thought it would be an idea to add a little more after changing the throttle cable again today.
When I first changed it in January it was quite fiddle to get to everything at the bulk head, probably the reason why it took a bit of time. Just changed it again today and thought to remove the inlet manifold to get more room. This worked and it was so much easier to do, changed it within 20mins.
So top tip is to remove the inlet to get some more room, you don't hand to feed the cable through much and can drop it down the back of the engine with ease.

 

[KitsonRis]

Ok throttle is still a bit hit and miss.
I don't think there is an air leak as it will idle at under 1000rpm when warm.

But if you are on the throttle holding at 30mph and then lift off the revs don't die down. But then if you blip the throttle with the clutch down it idled fine. Had a quick look and it the throttle doesn't return to rest, like by only the smallest of amounts but enough to keep the revs at 2k rpm. You could only fit a few sheets of paper between the stop on the TB and the bit of plastic the cable attaches to. It is as if the return spring doesn't work, but will work if it is given a sharp movement. When I had it apart the other day I put some WD40 on the spring and mechanism. I have just put some 3 in 1 oil on it now and went mad on the accelerator pedal to try and coat the whole spring. Is this like the same issue you mentioned above @barnesautos ?

I have checked the throttle cable run and it is fine with no sharp bends or kinks.

Could the mechanism be on the way out? I am hoping the 3 in 1 oil and a soaking over night will help.

 

[KitsonRis]

Also I have just found out it will only not return to the stop when the car is running. If the car is off the mechanism goes back to the stop regardless how gentle you move it. This is just confusing!?! It is as if the air moving past it is holding it open slightly.
I did damage the clip on the connector on the thing on the front of the TB (not the ICV) but I have cable tied and taped it in place in the connector so pretty confident it is fully engaged. Not sure what this is though.

 

[barnesautos]

Ok throttle is still a bit hit and miss.
I don't think there is an air leak as it will idle at under 1000rpm when warm.

But if you are on the throttle holding at 30mph and then lift off the revs don't die down. But then if you blip the throttle with the clutch down it idled fine. Had a quick look and it the throttle doesn't return to rest, like by only the smallest of amounts but enough to keep the revs at 2k rpm. You could only fit a few sheets of paper between the stop on the TB and the bit of plastic the cable attaches to. It is as if the return spring doesn't work, but will work if it is given a sharp movement. When I had it apart the other day I put some WD40 on the spring and mechanism. I have just put some 3 in 1 oil on it now and went mad on the accelerator pedal to try and coat the whole spring. Is this like the same issue you mentioned above @barnesautos ?

I have checked the throttle cable run and it is fine with no sharp bends or kinks.

Could the mechanism be on the way out? I am hoping the 3 in 1 oil and a soaking over night will help.

I stripped my throttle body right down , took out the flap and removed the shaft , there is a seal on both ends , I doubt that will allow air to be passed .
I used wet and dry very fine paper with the oil and rotated the shaft where it would locate in the body , doing this removes any crap and allows for free movement when put back together .
I suggest you try this if you are confident enough [emoji1303].
With regard to the connector you are on about , in presuming it's the throttle position sensor

 

[KitsonRis]

I stripped my throttle body right down , took out the flap and removed the shaft , there is a seal on both ends , I doubt that will allow air to be passed .
I used wet and dry very fine paper with the oil and rotated the shaft where it would locate in the body , doing this removes any crap and allows for free movement when put back together .
I suggest you try this if you are confident enough [emoji1303].
With regard to the connector you are on about , in presuming it's the throttle position sensor

Blimey that's a big job! I'm sure I have the ability to do this on a second one so I don't c**k the one which sort of works up resndering the car useless for a while!
I've just been out in the car after a few hours of the oil soaking and it's improved quite a lot, just appears that the throttle return is very slow if cruzing and lifting off - gets to just over 1k rpm and then drops to idle slower than I remember, but at least I have engine breaking! Hoping an overnight soak of oil on the spring will do its trick until I have the opportunity to get a second TB and clean it line you suggested.
I think I know the problem just wanted confirmation before I go all gun hoe about it! Thanks for the help!!

 

[chris blue]

Got all these issues my self and working thru them. Throttle body removal and clean for me on my day off tomorrow. TB spring looks well grubby even after squirting cleaner spray and WD. Gonna get an enlarged throttle body as a spare too.

 

[chris blue]

Did you sort the problem Kitsonris? Exactly same position as you. Each clean, the throttle gets a bit better, but never cured.

 

[KitsonRis]

I swaped the TB for one that was known not to stick. I think gudger12345 is still breaking his Ph1, the TB might be available on this. (Or if you can wait about 18months I will have ITBs by then and my TB will be available.....)
I still have the sticky one which I keep meaning to take apart for a closer look and to see if I can fix it
If you are replacing the cable in yours do it as a single piece and don't bother try to pull the inner through with the outer in place. Removing the inlet manifold gives more access behind the engine and heat sheidling to get your hands down there. And use a genuine Renault cable, its about <£40 and worth it. The non-genuine one I pulled off mine (the first sticky throttle issue I had was caused by the cable - to make the throttle not stick you had to use your toe to pull the accelertor peddal up to drop the revs) was an awful quality compared to the genuine one. Barnesautos' guid above is very good and helped me for replacing it, but reading your other posts I think you have done this job before.

 

[chris blue]

^^ Thanks. Have bought gudgers throttle body and its better, but not cured. Will get a renault accelerator cable as ive only used a eurocarparts one.

Good tip about the inlet manifold, but will wait for warmer weather before i tackle that. Glad you got yours sorted. Gonna get one of my throttle bodies drilled to 64 mm.

Ooo. UTBs... how much that costing you... and what gains you reckon?

 

[robmuns]

Ktec do the genuine on for about £30 atm

 

[Mar172]

^^ Thanks. Have bought gudgers throttle body and its better, but not cured. Will get a renault accelerator cable as ive only used a eurocarparts one.

Good tip about the inlet manifold, but will wait for warmer weather before i tackle that. Glad you got yours sorted. Gonna get one of my throttle bodies drilled to 64 mm.

Ooo. UTBs... how much that costing you... and what gains you reckon?

No gains

 

[chris blue]

Ktec do the genuine on for about £30 atm

Thats cool. Have a link?

No gains

Yes, everyone says that, but I'd like to try it, and may help the throttle issue with a new butterfly etc.

Been on another spin today, and deffo much better. Doesnt stick avbove 2k revs, and when it does stick a bit it settles at 1krevs after a second or 2.

My concern now is that if the new throttle body has sorted one part of the problem, would the existing cable, if it is sticking, actually damage or create the problem in the throttle body over time, making the throttle body more sticky again. Maybe sticky throttle cables cause a percentage of throttle body issues?

Will strip down the OEM throttle body and clean when i get time, and will replace the complate throttle cable when i get time (Renault one) but not much fun cralwing around the ground, and prodding around an engine bay at 0deg c....

 

[chris blue]

Ktec do the genuine on for about £30 atm

No worries bout the link- bought one. Thanks. Bout £33 inc postage- better than the £42 i was gonna pay

 

[KitsonRis]

what gains you reckon?

Gains on what? The enlarged TB or ITBs? As minimal for the enlarged one, but with a re-worked butterfly etc may help the sticky issue if there is scoring/marks on the inner surface which will be bored out.
I have a power figure I am aiming for but other engine work is being done this year to help get there before I put the ITBs on next year - mainly as I am impatient and can't afford to do it all now as I need some savings for house deposit and boring things.

Not sure a sticky cable will "damage" the TB as you described as it's only really just opening it and not an "integregrated part" of it, just an attachment.
Nothing wrong with working in sub-zero temperatures, I was drilling out arch linings on mine today to clean all behind them!

 

[chris blue]

^ lol. My days of working under a car in sub zero temps is over

Just wondered if it is the cable holding a TB open very slightly for a second or 2, that over time that will make it never seal quite properly again

 

[Andyman]

Ph1 throttle body is just a pile of cheap junk.
They last about 20-30k of use then start to stick.

Jenvey used to do a single one for the Clios. Thats who I will be contacting once this one packs up.

 

[Rob669]

^^^^what he says.
These cars are knocking on a bit now so some parts are just wearing out and need to be replaced with new. I bought a new one, works brilliantly again.

 

[Andyman]

I bought my last one something like 5 years ago and its starting to stick now. £400+ new from Renault is just utter crazy! plus there will come a point where these become obsolete and we have to rely on 2nd hand ones with no fix once it goes.

Only two options available: someone comes up with a replacement spring or we use a aftermarket or different manufacturer TB

 

[STEVE.M]

I bought my last one something like 5 years ago and its starting to stick now. £400+ new from Renault is just utter crazy! plus there will come a point where these become obsolete and we have to rely on 2nd hand ones with no fix once it goes.

Only two options available: someone comes up with a replacement spring or we use a aftermarket or different manufacturer TB

Anyone got pics & dimensions of spring?
Something along these lines?
https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://plenternz.com/images/92144-1567.jpg&imgrefurl=http://plenternz.com/products_new.php?currency=GBP&page=289&osCsid=j1im7pqa5q1i6tpcdp3qaqtu80&docid=KZXNcLQdeVcorM&tbnid=Va-kjRj8GbLxbM:&vet=1&w=640&h=480&itg=1&bih=923&biw=1920&q=921441567&ved=0ahUKEwjMk9TwhqHRAhVD0hoKHSUlAhIQMwgjKAcwBw&iact=mrc&uact=8
or this
https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?img...qHRAhVD0hoKHSUlAhIQMwgjKAcwBw&iact=mrc&uact=8

 

[barnesautos]

I see your point on the spring , but a stronger spring to help return the flap will surely only add an increase in pedal effort . These are tight enough as they are .

 

[bloke]

it isn't the spring that stops them from closing, the spring pulls the spindle to one side and wears the body/butterfly. with it not sitting central in it's 'returned' state the butterfly is still slightly open.

 

[STEVE.M]

it isn't the spring that stops them from closing, the spring pulls the spindle to one side and wears the body/butterfly. with it not sitting central in it's 'returned' state the butterfly is still slightly open.

See what your saying.
This chap should be able to sort out that problem, even if you don`t want the bore enlarged.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/clio-172-...977130?hash=item5b30656c2a:g:d4wAAMXQgPFRG7WA

 

[bloke]

See what your saying.
This chap should be able to sort out that problem, even if you don`t want the bore enlarged.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/clio-172-...977130?hash=item5b30656c2a:g:d4wAAMXQgPFRG7WA

depends if there is any wear on the body itself where the butterfly has been pulled against it. i've got a couple of spare bodies i'm looking at doing either a recon or a rebuild using bearings to stop any lateral movement of the spindle/butterfly but just trying to work out a cost effective way of doing it.

 

[STEVE.M]

depends if there is any wear on the body itself where the butterfly has been pulled against it. i've got a couple of spare bodies i'm looking at doing either a recon or a rebuild using bearings to stop any lateral movement of the spindle/butterfly but just trying to work out a cost effective way of doing it.

Anything of use here?
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Be...-Bronze-Flange-Bushes/c3_4511_4771/index.html

 

[Andyman]

it isn't the spring that stops them from closing, the spring pulls the spindle to one side and wears the body/butterfly. with it not sitting central in it's 'returned' state the butterfly is still slightly open.

Got to disagree with that. Every time one of mine has gone the spring is catching on the throttle holder preventing it from closing, proven by the fact the spring at one side goes shiny where it's been wearing. The spring has expanded basically.

If you look at the spring closely it's actually two springs joined together it's that crap.

It wouldn't need a stiffer spring, just a better quality one piece job or just something as simple as a off the shelf replacement item rather than having to buy a second hand TB body or 400 quid new one

 

[Mar172]

We have a company that comes into where i work makes all kinds of springs and i was going to strip the spring off one of mine and ask if they could make a better spring

 

[bloke]

Anything of use here?
http://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Be...-Bronze-Flange-Bushes/c3_4511_4771/index.html

cheers for that. want to run proper bearings to keep the spindle from shifting.

Got to disagree with that. Every time one of mine has gone the spring is catching on the throttle holder preventing it from closing, proven by the fact the spring at one side goes shiny where it's been wearing. The spring has expanded basically.

If you look at the spring closely it's actually two springs joined together it's that crap.

It wouldn't need a stiffer spring, just a better quality one piece job or just something as simple as a off the shelf replacement item rather than having to buy a second hand TB body or 400 quid new one

only come across one that was a spring problem but that was full of gunk to say the least. but never really paid the spring much attention when stripping them. looked at a couple of alternative versions of a return spring but will wait until i get a body built with the spindle on bearings as this will need a lot less force to close it.