Pimp my lounge. AV advice

[chris_p]

I'm now near enough in the fortunate position to get me my first decent av setup.


I've been putting in some serious man hours into research and it's not easy is it!


Ive been into richer sounds for a listen on a receiver: http://www.whathifi.com/review/sony-str-dn1040
The staff were good, they recommended the receiver but they did say that purists often turn their noses up at receivers etc, especially from big brands such as Sony in favour of specialist equipment, but it's a good bit of kit regardless.

I was a little disappointed with the speaker range in RS so went to my local seven oaks, had a browse of speakers and naturally their first question was what are the speakers being driven from. I told them and they near enough laughed me out the shop! 'Sony are awful' 'you're paying a huge premium for airplay etc' 'shocking sound quality' ETC!
Now, who's to believe?

They also said said when using airplay the sound quality is degraded massively.


I like the B&W 685 s2 standmount speakers, but I'm unable to listen to them on the Sony as RS don't stock them.
KEF ls50 are rated ridiculously highly also.
Sevenoaks bummed this receiver: NAD t748. Basically no extra features, all the money has been spent on what matters, the amp.
It sounded good, but I'm not convinced it'll be any better than the Sony? It's ugly & the on screen interface is hideous.

I realise sound is subjective, but will a quality pair of speakers be wasted with an av receiver at this level?

Thanks for any help. x

 

[Al_G]

Yes.

Have you looked at the Dali Zensor range?

My Zensor 3's are brilliant as are my B&W M1 rears.

 

[Keydogg]

I don't think that the Sony 1040 is going to be a bad receiver at all! The thing is, although Sony is a huge brand you're buying an AV receiver not an all-in-one kit. And that particular receiver gets fantastic reviews.

Truth is if you're looking for an all in one solution a good AVR is a perfect place to start, and if it has pre-outs for the front also (not sure if the 1040 does) you can add a stereo amplifier later if it takes your fancy.

I've just gone from a Denon AVR-1912 to an AVR-X4000 and the argument is that the X4000 has better amplification and components than the 1912 (it's effective 2 steps above the 1912) and with my B&W CM1's it sounds brilliant. The X4000 has pre-outs but I can't see me upgrading to a stereo amplifier unless I get some £2000 speakers (which won't be in the near future!). I know this has no relevance to Sony but what I'm trying to say is you can still get very, very good sound from an AVR.

 

[DannyR]

I have a Denon AVRX2000, if you want to use the 685's then that is better suited than the AVRX4000.

Check out superfi.co.uk for it as last time I checked it was half price at £250! Ridiculously cheaper, cheaper than our trade price.

If you would like any B&W speakers PM me, nobody is allowed to sell B&W speakers online from brand new and we are very lucky to gave one of very few accounts with them.

I would always go B&W on the pure fact it's a bit rarer to have them and not an off the shelf item.

EDIT: looks like bookshelf speakers are now being sold online

 

[Al_G]

I have a Denon AVRX2000, if you want to use the 685's then that is better suited than the AVRX4000.

Check out superfi.co.uk for it as last time I checked it was half price at £250! Ridiculously cheaper, cheaper than our trade price.

If you would like any B&W speakers PM me, nobody is allowed to sell B&W speakers online from brand new and we are very lucky to gave one of very few accounts with them.

I would always go B&W on the pure fact it's a bit rarer to have them and not an off the shelf item.

EDIT: looks like bookshelf speakers are now being sold online

Superfi Sell B&W speakers online.

The good thing about buying from Superfi online is you can return them if you're not happy with the quality, size etc - no questions asked.

 

[DannyR]

Superfi Sell B&W speakers online.

The good thing about buying from Superfi online is you can return them if you're not happy with the quality, size etc - no questions asked.

Only selected ones, most are in store only.

 

[Detail Chris]

Chris what exactly do you want an av amp for, I'm a bit lost by a couple of things your saying? If you want an amp that does a multitude of things but just to play in stereo then an av amp isn't the way to go.

 

[SnapMonkey]

Yamaha AV amp for me, superb build quality (eg lasts forever) and a great sound.

 

[Mike@Rentech]

I need a new amp my pioneer one is getting a bit dated now and volume goes up on its own.
Looking at the Denon one looks good , worth getting?
Running Bose surround speakers at the moment as well.

 

[chris_p]

I have a Denon AVRX2000, if you want to use the 685's then that is better suited than the AVRX4000.

Check out superfi.co.uk for it as last time I checked it was half price at £250! Ridiculously cheaper, cheaper than our trade price.

If you would like any B&W speakers PM me, nobody is allowed to sell B&W speakers online from brand new and we are very lucky to gave one of very few accounts with them.

I would always go B&W on the pure fact it's a bit rarer to have them and not an off the shelf item.

EDIT: looks like bookshelf speakers are now being sold online

You must hear some baller serious setups, is the a vast difference in sound quality between the £500 av receivers and the more expensive ones, or even stereo amps?

I don't think that the Sony 1040 is going to be a bad receiver at all! The thing is, although Sony is a huge brand you're buying an AV receiver not an all-in-one kit. And that particular receiver gets fantastic reviews.

Truth is if you're looking for an all in one solution a good AVR is a perfect place to start, and if it has pre-outs for the front also (not sure if the 1040 does) you can add a stereo amplifier later if it takes your fancy.

I've just gone from a Denon AVR-1912 to an AVR-X4000 and the argument is that the X4000 has better amplification and components than the 1912 (it's effective 2 steps above the 1912) and with my B&W CM1's it sounds brilliant. The X4000 has pre-outs but I can't see me upgrading to a stereo amplifier unless I get some £2000 speakers (which won't be in the near future!). I know this has no relevance to Sony but what I'm trying to say is you can still get very, very good sound from an AVR.

Thanks for the reply man, I have to agree!
I may have to have another listen of the Sony with some decent speakers fitted, to my ears I'm not sure I noticed much of a difference between the NAD and the Sony in terms of sound but there's many variables.

Yes.

Have you looked at the Dali Zensor range?

My Zensor 3's are brilliant as are my B&W M1 rears.

Looked at most speakers now tbh. In terms of bookshelf speakers:
i like the q acoustic range of a lower budget, mid b&w 684 s2 or MA RX2, high budget kef ls50.

Chris what exactly do you want an av amp for, I'm a bit lost by a couple of things your saying? If you want an amp that does a multitude of things but just to play in stereo then an av amp isn't the way to go.

Both music and movies.
I've currently got an all in one box (Sony SA-PT870) and its ok. It sounds alright in all fairness but I do want a big upgrade, I don't really want a half way house!

 

[Detail Chris]

So you want a 5.1 cinema setup that's also not bad at music?

 

[chris_p]

So you want a 5.1 cinema setup that's also not bad at music?

Replace 'not bad' with 'very good' and we're on the same page!

 

[Al_G]

Replace 'not bad' with 'very good' and we're on the same page!

http://www.whathifi.com/review/dali-zensor-5-51

Or

http://m.richersounds.com/#!/product/pah011189

Or

http://www.whathifi.com/review/dali-zensor-1-51

 

[chris_p]

http://www.whathifi.com/review/dali-zensor-5-51

Or

http://m.richersounds.com/#!/product/pah011189

Or

http://www.whathifi.com/review/dali-zensor-1-51

Dude. They're speakers!
Ive been talking about what receiver/ amp to get!

 

[Al_G]

Dude. They're speakers!
Ive been talking about what receiver/ amp to get!

Oh right lol.

I've got a marantz 1604 which is pretty awesome.

 

[...]

Have to Say i replaced my old award winning Sony with a 1604 as well , as i wanted a slim amp , i run KEF 3005se 7.1 setup and its great for Home cinima , but i have never found an AV amp thats great for stereo Music

However if you want to demo loads of great kit , then go and see my Mate Paul and his wife Wendy , will be a treck down the A11 for you but well worth it as they run the HiFi Lounge

http://www.hifilounge.co.uk/

 

[Detail Chris]

Cool ok, as above an av amp really won't get the best out of them speakers. There is a couple
of options however. One is get a more musical amp such as anthem or arcams fmj series. They are as good as it gets for music and films but are expensive.
option two is get an av amp with a line out (most do now) and connect up a two channel Hifi amp to run the two front speakers. The av amp will provide the remaining speakers but for Hifi duties the 2ch amp will give near on Hifi quality sweet sounds! I would look at a used cyrus power amp (no volume knobs) and set the av amp to variable line out so it's still controlled by the av remote. Best of both worlds.

 

[DannyR]

It all depends what you want, the Denon and most AVR's are perfectly fine for music that'll be bought from iTunes etc..

If your running uncompressed music then having a better music setup is understandable, but let's be honest 99% are not.

 

[Detail Chris]

It all depends what you want, the Denon and most AVR's are perfectly fine for music that'll be bought from iTunes etc..

If your running uncompressed music then having a better music setup is understandable, but let's be honest 99% are not.

Danny is also very knowledgable, what he said is true. MP3 which most people use is not HiFi. Going back to what you say a fairly basic av amp and speaker setup will blow away any all in one.

 

[DannyR]

I think the Denon AVRX2000 actually has Zone 2 line out. If you then wanted to go that route you could have a separate area/setup for just music.

 

[Addicted]

Also +1 for Denon.

 

[Keydogg]

On another note, I know they (I say it myself) says AVRs are no where near as good for music, but I'm curious to know just how much better a stereo amp would be in my setup. I've sat there and listened to really good systems in excess of £20,000 and can hear the amazing quality, but what I really want to do is demo a stereo amp for my setup. I just can't see it making that much of a difference compared with my X4000 as it's a higher end AVR, but then without trying for myself I can't judge.

I'm kinda just ranting to myself here

 

[Detail Chris]

On another note, I know they (I say it myself) says AVRs are no where near as good for music, but I'm curious to know just how much better a stereo amp would be in my setup. I've sat there and listened to really good systems in excess of £20,000 and can hear the amazing quality, but what I really want to do is demo a stereo amp for my setup. I just can't see it making that much of a difference compared with my X4000 as it's a higher end AVR, but then without trying for myself I can't judge.

I'm kinda just ranting to myself here

Upgrading the fronts with a dedicated stereo amp to drive them will improve things however there are limiting factors here. The pre-amp stage of the av amp will bottleneck the stereo amp to some extent so you won't be getting it's full benefit. The other thing to note is that during films the stereo amp 'might not' give you the best sound effects like the av amp will.

back to what you said, it will improve things, especially with your cm1's, just try it! Get a used power amp etc from eBay (cyrus,naim etc) and get listening. If it's not enough of a change or whatever just get it back on the bay and get your money back.

 

[Keydogg]

Cheers Chris, when funds allow I shall do just that! (either that or take the CM1s for some CM8 :-D

 

[chris_p]

Have to Say i replaced my old award winning Sony with a 1604 as well , as i wanted a slim amp , i run KEF 3005se 7.1 setup and its great for Home cinima , but i have never found an AV amp thats great for stereo Music

However if you want to demo loads of great kit , then go and see my Mate Paul and his wife Wendy , will be a treck down the A11 for you but well worth it as they run the HiFi Lounge

http://www.hifilounge.co.uk/

Thanks for the heads up there mate, that place looks great!

Cool ok, as above an av amp really won't get the best out of them speakers. There is a couple
of options however. One is get a more musical amp such as anthem or arcams fmj series. They are as good as it gets for music and films but are expensive.
option two is get an av amp with a line out (most do now) and connect up a two channel Hifi amp to run the two front speakers. The av amp will provide the remaining speakers but for Hifi duties the 2ch amp will give near on Hifi quality sweet sounds! I would look at a used cyrus power amp (no volume knobs) and set the av amp to variable line out so it's still controlled by the av remote. Best of both worlds.

I like the sound of option 2. Some cracking advice in here, thanks guys.

It all depends what you want, the Denon and most AVR's are perfectly fine for music that'll be bought from iTunes etc..

If your running uncompressed music then having a better music setup is understandable, but let's be honest 99% are not.

Danny is also very knowledgable, what he said is true. MP3 which most people use is not HiFi. Going back to what you say a fairly basic av amp and speaker setup will blow away any all in one.

Oh yeah that's a given, I try and get my favourite albums on flac files.

I think the Denon AVRX2000 actually has Zone 2 line out. If you then wanted to go that route you could have a separate area/setup for just music.

Similar to the Sony in that regards by the sounds of it. I'd only want the one proper set up though tbh, sonus in the other rooms.

Upgrading the fronts with a dedicated stereo amp to drive them will improve things however there are limiting factors here. The pre-amp stage of the av amp will bottleneck the stereo amp to some extent so you won't be getting it's full benefit. The other thing to note is that during films the stereo amp 'might not' give you the best sound effects like the av amp will.

back to what you said, it will improve things, especially with your cm1's, just try it! Get a used power amp etc from eBay (cyrus,naim etc) and get listening. If it's not enough of a change or whatever just get it back on the bay and get your money back.

Would the bottle necking be noticeable to the average guy?
Audiophiles are a bit odd tbh, and probably notice a hell of a lot that Joe Bloggs wouldn't!

 

[Detail Chris]

Thanks for the heads up there mate, that place looks great!



I like the sound of option 2. Some cracking advice in here, thanks guys.





Oh yeah that's a given, I try and get my favourite albums on flac files.



Similar to the Sony in that regards by the sounds of it. I'd only want the one proper set up though tbh, sonus in the other rooms.



Would the bottle necking be noticeable to the average guy?
Audiophiles are a bit odd tbh, and probably notice a hell of a lot that Joe Bloggs wouldn't!

It it really depends on how good the pre-amp is and how fussy your ears are!

 

[chris_p]

It it really depends on how good the pre-amp is and how fussy your ears are!

Haha I had a feeling that would be the answer.
Thanks for your help.

I think I may ask richer sounds if I can have a listen to a stereo amp and a reciever back to back to see if the difference to my ears is enough to justify the extra outlay!
The only problem with demos is having to sit there with someone you don't know, intently listening to music together in an awkward environment where he just wants to make a quick sale really lol.

 

[...]

Haha I had a feeling that would be the answer.
Thanks for your help.

I think I may ask richer sounds if I can have a listen to a stereo amp and a reciever back to back to see if the difference to my ears is enough to justify the extra outlay!
The only problem with demos is having to sit there with someone you don't know, intently listening to music together in an awkward environment where he just wants to make a quick sale really lol.

that should not be the case you should be left alone.
also take your own music in , obviously

 

[Detail Chris]

There's also the option of home demoing with some retailers. Listening in your own environment is a must if you looking at high end stuff

 

[chris_p]

Just been having a read up on some of the better av receivers, came across the Marantz sr6008, looks good?!

 

[DannyR]

It's basically the Denon AVRX4000, with a metal front and different badge. No joke! All owned by D&M Holdings.

And it's more expensive!

 

[chris_p]

It's basically the Denon AVRX4000, with a metal front and different badge. No joke! All owned by D&M Holdings.

And it's more expensive!

From what I read, they're very very similar, but the Marantz has the edge acoustically, it's only £450!
Tbh, the Denon sounds like a good receiver anyway so I'd be happy with either, the Marantz does look sexy though.