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'Play' In Top Mounts?
- Thread starter PeteCup
- Start date
Cup'd Monaco 172
Just created a crude drawing. If I understand rightly something like this in 1 piece would be a solution...yeah?
Then we need the over hanging lip h height and w width and the overall inner diameter, then thats everything we need. I took the measurements from the drawings and page 2 of this thread.
Then we need the over hanging lip h height and w width and the overall inner diameter, then thats everything we need. I took the measurements from the drawings and page 2 of this thread.
Clio Cup 172, Mk2 Escort
ive got get new front struts in next few days so will measure lip and internal hole diameter and post it, once all dimensions are in it is a easy lathe job which any engineering company could make.
Clio Cup 172, Mk2 Escort
Ive got new struts coming tomorrow so will take apart but doing a bit of thinkin aloud!!!! when you turn the steering wheel the whole strut rotates and the bearing is there to allow it to rotate smoothly!! and the rubber cup is to sit it in the top turret so when the strut rotates shouldnt it rotate within the rubber, the sleeve ive fitted to petes dimension gives a tight fit to the rubber and tight fit to the existing sleeve and the 17mm bolt tightens it all together nicely, so when the strut rotates is the sleeve not rubbing against the rubber??? is so would making the external diameter of the sleeve say 1mm smaller allow the strut to rotate freeley rather than against the rubber causing wear and some resistance???? or am i completely off track???
Vectra 1.9 CDTi SRi 150
Just created a crude drawing. If I understand rightly something like this in 1 piece would be a solution...yeah?
Then we need the over hanging lip h height and w width and the overall inner diameter, then thats everything we need. I took the measurements from the drawings and page 2 of this thread.
Can you explain the the bottom step in the bush, if it is one piece, why is it not the same as the original with a shorter height and a bigger diameter.
BTW. had my struts off today whilst bolting on my polished momo strut brace. My top mounts are basically brand new, covered less than 1k. I checked for play in the large rubber under the turret. It rotates freely and I would say not with excessive play. I gound my turrets out when I fitted the new top mounts to eliminate the need fot the washer fix. The design is just cheap and nasty and the main problem i belive is it was designed for all the Ph 2 Clio's and unfortunately the 172/182 works it the hardest cusing premature ware......imo.
I don't think it's a Renault tolerance issue, it's just not durable enough on the 172/182.
Clio Cup 172, Mk2 Escort
You must have a good pair of top mounts, i bought new renualt items and they were loost as anything, without checking my strut i cant see a reason that the main shaft could not be the same diameter and no step unless the seat on the bearing is designed for the original sleeve diameter.
Vectra 1.9 CDTi SRi 150
Yes I see your point, the bearing! While on the subject of bearings, the Renault effort is a little flimsy. I'm sure there are better ones available, I may have read about these on some coilover thread on here, can't remember. Like I said, the whole assembly appears a little flimsy
RS RIP
interesting read this whole thread ! Good going guys ! Nice to see some brains and good old home engineering .
Want to mention that with my 2003 cup 172, i have'nt had the problems of play in the mounts yet !
I remember my old Scooby not liking full lock (problems with powersteering of some sort) , so i never do full lock with the cars i've driven more recently.. maybe this does save the topmounts ? No knocking whatso-ever !
Want to mention that with my 2003 cup 172, i have'nt had the problems of play in the mounts yet !
I remember my old Scooby not liking full lock (problems with powersteering of some sort) , so i never do full lock with the cars i've driven more recently.. maybe this does save the topmounts ? No knocking whatso-ever !
Up rocks
The larger diameter wont fit all the way down into the bottom rubber part of the mount, the smaller diameter is just clearance.
Up rocks
mine are really knocking like a b**ch now so does anyone have a set of the sleeves to try as i have the washer on and made no difference
As soon as i can get the dimensions im missing i 'should' be able to do a few sets. I would whip mine back out of the car but if just got it all back together and had the tracking done so cant really justify paying to get it tracked again.
Tbh the washers did nothing to my car either. Of course it must work on some cars and i can see the theory in it, as far as i could see i would have needed the washers to be at least 6mm thick, but i could see that causing more problems.
mine are really knocking like a b**ch now so does anyone have a set of the sleeves to try as i have the washer on and made no difference
As soon as i can get the dimensions im missing i 'should' be able to do a few sets. I would whip mine back out of the car but if just got it all back together and had the tracking done so cant really justify paying to get it tracked again.
Tbh the washers did nothing to my car either. Of course it must work on some cars and i can see the theory in it, as far as i could see i would have needed the washers to be at least 6mm thick, but i could see that causing more problems.
nice1 cheers mate let me know when you have some made up and i will get some cash you way
Clio Cup 172, Mk2 Escort
Just had mine apart and had a shock, th sleeve doesnt work as the strut piston is offset and when turning the wheel the strut doesnt pivot centrally thus need the bit of space between the rubber and the sleeve, so ive just left mine as a shortened sleeve and all is good, plus the new sleeve i fitted other day was rubbing against the rubber when rotating the wheel.
if you can knock some up mate let me know thats the only thing wyding me up on my car at the mo
M235i / 172
That 16.4 is the 'new' length, ie after machining
Ahh luvly mate.
So what we saying now then? just machine a bit of the old bush, or make some new ones to the smaller length, same as the old apart from the smaller length?
if you can knock some up mate let me know thats the only thing wyding me up on my car at the mo
If i get the answers i need mate, ill see what i can do. On afters next week so might get chance...
Already done one foreigner for you today lol
Ahh luvly mate.
So what we saying now then? just machine a bit of the old bush, or make some new ones to the smaller length, same as the old apart from the smaller length?
if you can knock some up mate let me know thats the only thing wyding me up on my car at the mo
If i get the answers i need mate, ill see what i can do. On afters next week so might get chance...
Already done one foreigner for you today lol
cheers dude you know i will sort you out with alloys refurbing and a decent bodyshop when you need it
Up rocks
Thats odd, mine fit fine and allow smooth rotation too ???
M235i / 172
Argh, so whats the decision then lol
Up rocks
I wonder if the sleeve is a available under a seperate part number from Renault? May just go buy one and measure it rather than take my car apart again.
A car
There is a similar problem on the MK1s brought about by there being two types of shocks.
One type has a nut to old the spring plate, the other has a circlip. If you fit the nut to the circlip type, the top mounts dont screw all the way down and the top mounts knock.
The solution is to fit the suspension, then remove the nut that hold the spring plate (and the circlip if its fitted). Now reaply the top mount nut and it will screw all the way down and there will be no movement in the top mount.
In effect you have spring, spring plate, bearing, top bush, top hat washer, top mount.
Just use the small nut to hold the spring compressed while you fit it to the car then remove it through the hole in the turret.
You can tell if this is the problem by bouncing the front of the car. If the top mount nut moves up and down when you bounce the car, you need to remove the nut.
One type has a nut to old the spring plate, the other has a circlip. If you fit the nut to the circlip type, the top mounts dont screw all the way down and the top mounts knock.
The solution is to fit the suspension, then remove the nut that hold the spring plate (and the circlip if its fitted). Now reaply the top mount nut and it will screw all the way down and there will be no movement in the top mount.
In effect you have spring, spring plate, bearing, top bush, top hat washer, top mount.
Just use the small nut to hold the spring compressed while you fit it to the car then remove it through the hole in the turret.
You can tell if this is the problem by bouncing the front of the car. If the top mount nut moves up and down when you bounce the car, you need to remove the nut.
Clio Cup 172, Mk2 Escort
The simple solution is to remove approx 1mm when machining the sleeve section that sits inside the rubber then will still allow a slight arc when the struts rotate and does not rub on the rubber, mine has worn the rubber section away leaving metal to metal rubbing so got another set of topmounts.
Up rocks
balls just wrote out an essay explaining it and firefox s**t itself
basically the knocking/vibration on the top caps on the bodywork is due to increase castor angle, fine in a straight line but on full lock the angle of the strut becomes too great and hence the top cap touches the body, remember the RS has the same upper mounting points as a non RS clio, but the lower mounting points are different (ie the shocks sits at more of an angle like / \ ), this is where the washer fix comes in, all it does is lift the top cap up 3mm removing any possibility of it touching the body, 100% safe and fine to do, Renault did it themselves on the V6 and its now their official fix for this known problem (note it'll cost you a s**t load more than £10 if you take it to renault for the same fix, so stop moaning!)
the top mounts are a bit crap in design, but i'm 99% sure they have play in them on purpose, if you look at these solid top mounts they have a spherical bearing in them that allows enough movement for the strut rotation lock to lock, the stock top mount bearing only works in one axis so needs some help, ie movement in the top mount
sounds dumb, but i can see the reason why they've done it like that
paint master piece coming up to help illustrate my rambling
basically the knocking/vibration on the top caps on the bodywork is due to increase castor angle, fine in a straight line but on full lock the angle of the strut becomes too great and hence the top cap touches the body, remember the RS has the same upper mounting points as a non RS clio, but the lower mounting points are different (ie the shocks sits at more of an angle like / \ ), this is where the washer fix comes in, all it does is lift the top cap up 3mm removing any possibility of it touching the body, 100% safe and fine to do, Renault did it themselves on the V6 and its now their official fix for this known problem (note it'll cost you a s**t load more than £10 if you take it to renault for the same fix, so stop moaning!
)the top mounts are a bit crap in design, but i'm 99% sure they have play in them on purpose, if you look at these solid top mounts they have a spherical bearing in them that allows enough movement for the strut rotation lock to lock, the stock top mount bearing only works in one axis so needs some help, ie movement in the top mount
sounds dumb, but i can see the reason why they've done it like that
paint master piece coming up to help illustrate my rambling
Up rocks
Shortened sleeve and no shim works for me.
clio sport 182
"IMO there is a sleeve thats too long and spaces the whole lot out", Butler205 your right i had mine apart today to get this sorted upon closer inspection i noticed alot of unnecessary play in the bush just down to pure design,during the week me and my trusted mechanic friend are manufacturing the collar arrowed in the above picture,we are going to make one on a lathe that is slightly wider so it fits snug the spacer ontop will be widend to fit snug and it wont be so long,will let you all now how this pans out
clio sport 182
will be making my new spacers for the bush this week sometime and if it works im going to make up a few
RSC 172
Verrrrry interesting. I have new strut top rubber mount bushing (both sides) but recently have developed a nasty squawk only in reverse near or at full lock from the right strut tower. It's looking like this bearing is the culprit..
Anyone else experience this noise issue? Knocking is OK on this strut but slightly present on the left due agauin I'ld say to this bearing. I have the spacer washers fitted.
Anyone else experience this noise issue? Knocking is OK on this strut but slightly present on the left due agauin I'ld say to this bearing. I have the spacer washers fitted.
CS Dungeon
What spacers you making up partyboy23? There have been conflicting fix's during this thread and i'm confuzzled as to what is needed lol
I'm suffering with this problem too and the 'Fred' fix hasnt done anything to help
I'm gonna be taking mine apart tomorrow morning, so if anyone needs any measurements taken let me know asap
I'd like some knocked up for me if someones making a batch!
I'm suffering with this problem too and the 'Fred' fix hasnt done anything to help
I'm gonna be taking mine apart tomorrow morning, so if anyone needs any measurements taken let me know asap
I'd like some knocked up for me if someones making a batch!
just for your info guys and girls, there is currently a group buy for solid top mounts in action over in the wanted section, look under AST Solid Top Mounts, ill find the link.
i have serious issues with the car moving in all directions, it beeline's to roadmarkings which on motorways is a serious issues, and also feels like the suspension "drops" before the rest of the car over bad bumps. i also get a lot of feedback through the steering wheel, but no feeling as to where the wheels are pointed.
took it to renault for the bonnet catch, they did their "25 point safety check" and was told top mounts are 100% the issue.
not sure if this helps.
jamie
jamie
i have serious issues with the car moving in all directions, it beeline's to roadmarkings which on motorways is a serious issues, and also feels like the suspension "drops" before the rest of the car over bad bumps. i also get a lot of feedback through the steering wheel, but no feeling as to where the wheels are pointed.
took it to renault for the bonnet catch, they did their "25 point safety check" and was told top mounts are 100% the issue.
not sure if this helps.
jamie
jamie
Golf GT & A4 Avant
As they're all going to wear differently, would it not be adviseable to take off the top mounts and measure to excess on the sleeve for each individual rubber? you can guarantee a precise fit then instead of taking off too much or too little.
Mine was creaking again, but I'd already had the chassic top modified instead of the washers so I changed the top mounts completely for the solid alloy Compbrake ones and added Sportline springs, and it's still bl**dy creaking!!!!
Mine was creaking again, but I'd already had the chassic top modified instead of the washers so I changed the top mounts completely for the solid alloy Compbrake ones and added Sportline springs, and it's still bl**dy creaking!!!!
