problems starting first thing in the morning?

[shiwarrior]

Hi all

Had my car just over a year now, and it was fine all winter, now the car wont start, the only way i can start it, is to use the throttle, i dont have to use a lot of throttle though

Car turns over but just doesent start, im sure the fuel pump does prime, but i will have another listen tommorow when i goto work.

All ignition lights come on and goes out like they are supposed to

any ideas?

 

[Domvalver]

same here, will always start but regularly it fails to fire first time and then splutters to life second or third time. For now im just fooling myself its a temperamental sporty thing

 

[rucrzy]

I used to have this problem every morning.I try to clean the Throttle body with Throttle body cleaner spray and the problem gone.Worth a try.

 

[Dunn]

clean up the TDC sensor

 

[Cliorep]

i have same problem, however im so used to putting some revs on to start it, my foot does it by itself now lol.

 

[Nick 182]

clean up the TDC sensor

Same problem here aswell. What's the TDC sensor and where do you find it?

 

[Sargara]

I dont think its the TDC sensor. I replaced mine about 6 months ago for the revised Blue TDC and im experiencing this problem as well.

Sometimes when i start the car it turns over and starts but the revs drop right off and it splutters then stalls. Start the car the 2nd time and its fine, revs hold around 1000 as id expect.

 

[shiwarrior]

thanks all for the replies

i am going to give the pipercross cone a cleam tommorow, and i will look into the throttle body being cleaned whist the cone is off

 

[shiwarrior]

Halfords didnt have any carb cleaner for the throttle body
but i bought some cleaner for the foam induction kit, and gave that a good clean today.

still had a problem starting just after trying it just now.

I kept an eye on the revs and the needle was moving between 1000 and 1100 all the time, untill it warmed up and went down to around 800 rpm and didnt fluctuate

i'll try cleaning the TDC sensor next (checked another thread and its located under neather the air filter on a bracket that is curved)

 

[Sargara]

^ Im skeptical its the TDC sensor though Shiwarrior.

The TDC sensor if faulty/dirty will stop the car starting, the engine wont turn over. This isnt the case with our issue as the car is turning over and starting but then cutting out due to lack of revs. I also only just replaced this 6 or so months previous with the revised version from Renault.

My money is on the TB or a dodgy sensor somewhere.

I'll ask Fred@BTM to take a look next time i innevitably pay him a visit with a list of odd jobs that need doing

 

[shiwarrior]

^ Im skeptical its the TDC sensor though Shiwarrior.

The TDC sensor if faulty/dirty will stop the car starting, the engine wont turn over. This isnt the case with our issue as the car is turning over and starting but then cutting out due to lack of revs. I also only just replaced this 6 or so months previous with the revised version from Renault.

My money is on the TB or a dodgy sensor somewhere.

I'll ask Fred@BTM to take a look next time i innevitably pay him a visit with a list of odd jobs that need doing

cheers for that

the TB is connected to the air filter isnt it?
how on earth do you clean it? any guide somewhere that shows you how to take the TB off or clean it?
Thanks

 

[clio_luke]

yes there is a guide to cleaning tb on here. its very simple and you dont need carb cleaner, just wd40 and a clean rag.

 

[shiwarrior]

had another listen etc, and tbh, i dont think the fuel pump is priming, also as i drive in cold, i change gear and its like it doesent want to go again, once warmed up , problems have gone
the only way to start it in the mornings is to, use a little bit of throttle to get it going ?

 

[mark_182_54]

mine does this even more so recently over the last 6 months

its not a tdc fault as i had mine replaced ????

 

[redeye]

I'm having exact same issue. Every morning I try and start the car it will stutter and either stall or just about pull through. Tend you give it a bit of gas to get it going. Also feels quite 'lumpy' for first minute or so after starting....

 

[FAST_aD13]

+1 mines the same, start it up 1st thing and starts then dies straight away (unless i give it alittle gas)... try it again and it idles fine.

Has anyone tried cleaning their TB to see if that helps? will do mine this wkend if someone doesnt post up before.

 

[shiwarrior]

strange, but mine has been fine over the last 2 or 3 days now

 

[redeye]

What is the TB and where is said guide? Mines in for an MOT on sat, so I might ask the mechanic to take a look and give things a clean if needed.

 

[Clart]

i cleaned my TB about 3 weeks ago, doesn't make any difference. Mine always starts first time, but sometimes likes to have a bit of a splutter...Mine also makes a wierd "chirping" noise when it starts - i have no idea whats making the nosie!

 

[JamboM3]

I'm also experiencing this seems alot are and after a search on here it seems nobody has a clue!

 

[Sargara]

Right just borrowed a socket set off JP on here and got to work. Removed the Throttle Body and gave it a good scrubbing with WD40, Kitchen roll and a washing up scouring pad. While at it i removed and did the same with my newly replaced TDC sensor however as expected for a less than 6 month old part it was already spotless but i did it none the less.

Refitted all and started her up a couple of times, immediately seems happier and is sitting a couple of hundred revs higher on idle than it used to.

I will report back in a couple of days if this makes any difference as we all know it only tends to happen after long periods of sitting unused. If this doesnt work it will be off to a mechanic as im guessing it will be a dodgey sensor.

 

[shiwarrior]

Thanks Sargara for the info

 

[FAST_aD13]

I'll be interested to hear the results of this (didnt get chance to do mine at the wkend)

 

[J.B.]

Wow it's a common problem then. I also have this issue but only in the mornings. It seems to go away for days at a time and then comes back. It also idles roughly as well. I've just taken my airbox off to get at the TDC sensor but the bolts holding it on are tucked away behind some water pipes. Sargara, do you have any tips for getting it off?

Just so I'm 100% clear, the throttle body is a single butterfly valve on the right hand side of the intake manifold where the airbox leads into right? It has 4 bolts holding it, so I just undo those and give it a good clean with a rag and WD40?

I suspect mine is sticking as I've just found a small amount of oil (clean oil which is nice) in the tube leading from the airbox.

The Parkers clio guide also says the idle control valve can stick, has anyone tried taking that off and cleaning it?

 

[Sargara]

Wow it's a common problem then. I also have this issue but only in the mornings. It seems to go away for days at a time and then comes back. It also idles roughly as well. I've just taken my airbox off to get at the TDC sensor but the bolts holding it on are tucked away behind some water pipes. Sargara, do you have any tips for getting it off?

Just so I'm 100% clear, the throttle body is a single butterfly valve on the right hand side of the intake manifold where the airbox leads into right? I think I better clean this as well, I suspect mine is sticking as I've just found a small amount of oil (clean oil which is nice) in the tube leading from the airbox.

The Parkers clio guide also says the idle control valve can stick, has anyone tried taking that off and cleaning it?

I had the same pipes as well, thats why its a nightmare to get to. Now try modifying the wiring loom in that small space as well and you get a picture of how difficult the TDC sensor is to replace Loosen the bolts with a socket set and then undo the last bit with your hand going under the pipe. Its slow but it means the screw will drop into your fingers and not into the depths of your engine bay.

And yes thats the Throttle Body, mine was caked in thick black oil around the edge of the circular butterfly valve.

And ignore the Parkers guide, the idle control valve is only present on Ph1 172s if i remember correctly.

 

[J.B.]

Excellent, I'll give all that a go. Now if the rain could just hold off for the next hour I'd be grateful.

 

[J.B.]

You weren't wrong, that was extremely fiddly. Almost lost one of the bolts in the process as I'd undone it more than I thought.

Anyway the sensor itself was very, very dirty. The metal end which I presume does the sensing was entirely blackened so I cleaned that up so it was shiny metal again.

My throttle body also had some thick black oil so I took that off and gave it a damn good clean as well, spotless now.

The engine started first time after cleaning, but I would expect it to as I had already run the car today. However, it was a much smoother start than normal (usally jolts the car) and it just sounds better generally. It definitely idles better now with less vibration but I suspect I still have an idle misfire as I can feel a break in the exhaust gases with my hand over the pipe. Spark plugs next I think?

 

[hillclimb_clio]

My throttle body & TDC Sensor have both been cleaned recently, its also had new plugs & leads yet my 172 Cup pulled the 'I'm not starting' stunt on me when I left work last night. After a few attempts I turned the ignition off for maybe 30secs & tried again - started 1st time! Will see what happens when I leave for work in a bit ...

 

[shiwarrior]

My throttle body & TDC Sensor have both been cleaned recently, its also had new plugs & leads yet my 172 Cup pulled the 'I'm not starting' stunt on me when I left work last night. After a few attempts I turned the ignition off for maybe 30secs & tried again - started 1st time! Will see what happens when I leave for work in a bit ...

hmm odd, if it doesent start, use th throttle, mine starts no problem then!

 

[FC 53ANC]

My throttle body & TDC Sensor have both been cleaned recently, its also had new plugs & leads yet my 172 Cup pulled the 'I'm not starting' stunt on me when I left work last night. After a few attempts I turned the ignition off for maybe 30secs & tried again - started 1st time! Will see what happens when I leave for work in a bit ...

mine has done it a few times now, its doin my head in (172 cup) yesterday was fine all day tl 6 just as i was running late... no start.. had to use the g/f's mini.
today she started 1st try
i need to figure out the root of the problem.

 

[shiwarrior]

mine has been fine for ages now, and i havent done anything

 

[Sargara]

Mine has been fine for ages as well.

Please note though i had already previously replaced my TDC sensor with the upgraded TDC sensor (blue part) Renault have issued. If cleaning yours hasnt made any difference id look into getting the replacement, Renault have upgraded it for a reason afterall.

 

[john.med]

Mine's been the same for over a year or more, was really bad last year so I replaced the tdc and put in a second hand tb. It was really bad, even after clearing all the error codes, better when a Renault specialist cleared them on their machine. A few weeks back I took all my relays and fuses out, cleaned and oiled them. This made a massive difference. Car has started first time about 98% of the time since. Still didn't once or twice, but previously it wouldn't ever start first time.

 

[Panda]

i had this prob, so i changed all me plugs and leads with no joy, i then found this thread as it was happening nearly every morn, after finally getting round to cleaning my throttle body out (about a month ago) its started first time every time since.

TDC sensor had already been replaced a year or so ago due non starting probs.

 

[Rico]

I cleaned my TB without removing it, i.e.e cleaned the side furthest away from the engine. Would it be wise to remove it and clean the other side aswell? Do you get a lot of carbon/oil build up there too? If so, how do you remove it? Cheers.

 

[Panda]

Mine was dirty on both sides so probs best to clean it all.

Theres 4 bolts holding it on and the plug, i also plugged it back in whilst it was off and got some-one to press the accelerator pedal so i cud clean it between the butterfly part.

Hope that helps

 

[Rico]

Cheers Panda, I'll add it to the list of 'jobs to do'.

 

[smithyy]

same but mines really strange, starts most of the time but then just refuses 7or8 times then starts :/ help ? cheers

 

[ianysm]

You can move the butterfly by hand in order to clean behind it instead of using a second person.

Mine starts fine but is abit jerky at low speeds sometimes and goes into limp mode. My TB is super clean (decided to take it off this time!) so i'll try the TDC sensor next. Doubt it'll help the running issues but worth a try!

 

[shiwarrior]

You can move the butterfly by hand in order to clean behind it instead of using a second person.

Mine starts fine but is abit jerky at low speeds sometimes and goes into limp mode. My TB is super clean (decided to take it off this time!) so i'll try the TDC sensor next. Doubt it'll help the running issues but worth a try!

mine is jerky when cold, its horrible to drive