Question...? Cup wide track

[Teds]

My question is were and how does the Cup gain its extra track width. (Front and Rear) against a standard 172/182.

 

[MarkCup]

Allegedly it's just the different offset on the wheels, with no changes to the hubs...but that doesn't explain why it gains more at the front than the back.

Either it's the same front and rear, or something else has changed that affects it.

 

[Day]

ET37.5 and 205 tyres is it not?

I'm only guessing mind.

 

[MRBILLYUK]

Don't quote me on this , but i'm pretty sure i read that the 172 cups and 182's have different hubs so giving it a wider track . Ask edde , he'll know .

 

[edde]

Don't quote me on this , but i'm pretty sure i read that the 172 cups and 182's have different hubs so giving it a wider track . Ask edde , he'll know .

Nope they have differetn hubs the Cup but had no effect it was juts a stronger hub.

Differences etc are here.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=161269
Suspension setup details for 172 and 182 and Cup here
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=


The front is wider due to the camber being more.

Ie a 172 full fat front tyres look like this | |
A Cup look like this / \

 

[Teds]

Don't 172's run the same wheel size eg. 16x7. so its just a 205 blown out onto the same rim..! its just gained in the offset then ..?

Also if the hubs are different in size. then driveshaft would be different as well...?

Just thinking of spec'ing up my 172. also is anti roll bar thicker on cup's.

If so, the track is only affected by wheel offset so the anti roll bar should be a straight swop.

What do you think...?

 

[daviebroon]

gold star to edde lol the only one to get it right

 

[BenR]

an additional 10mm track gain from camber, i think not sorry.

 

[edde]

Don't 172's run the same wheel size eg. 16x7. so its just a 205 blown out onto the same rim..! its just gained in the offset then ..?

Also if the hubs are different in size. then driveshaft would be different as well...?

Just thinking of spec'ing up my 172. also is anti roll bar thicker on cup's.

If so, the track is only affected by wheel offset so the anti roll bar should be a straight swop.

What do you think...?

Same ARB on both cars.

 

[BenR]

if the ARB was thicker on a cup then you'll be looking at more understeer with nothing changed apart from the ARB.

 

[Teds]

From front struts i've seen they just adjust camber by bringing in the wheel towards the strut. Not by extending the bottom track control arm. so wheel track remains same...!

 

[MarkCup]

Do you have the definitive answer Ben?

Or were Renault making it up?

 

[Frasers Cup]

Nope they have differetn hubs the Cup but had no effect it was juts a stronger hub.

Differences etc are here.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=161269
Suspension setup details for 172 and 182 and Cup here
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=


The front is wider due to the camber being more.

Ie a 172 full fat front tyres look like this | |
A Cup look like this / \

Does a higher camber not mean less traction off the line? Im having real problems with my 172 cup off the line and thats with brand new tyres! A guy took me out in his civic type r and there wasnt any wheelspin!

 

[BenR]

i dont no, i've not indulged myself in it.

But follow the arc of any camber movement using a fixed lower arm length and you will reduce track by adding camber.

Even if it did change camber in a positive nature, the additional amount of camber actually changed on a cup is so minimal that there wouldnt be enough change to account for the 5mm additional track either side.

 

[Teds]

By just lowering a car in general promotes more -negative camber again. but not effecting track...! I think.

Going to measure ARB Dia tom. anyone with a cup fancy doing the same.

 

[edde]

Both are the same part number for the ARB 24mm from memory.

 

[Gaz_]

Don't 172's run the same wheel size eg. 16x7. so its just a 205 blown out onto the same rim..! its just gained in the offset then ..?

Also if the hubs are different in size. then driveshaft would be different as well...?

Just thinking of spec'ing up my 172. also is anti roll bar thicker on cup's.

If so, the track is only affected by wheel offset so the anti roll bar should be a straight swop.

What do you think...?

no, cups run 195/45 16 tyres

the turinis they come wiith have an offset of 38.5

 

[philmots]

cups std tyre was 195 section not 205 too

 

[Gaz_]

^lol look above matey

 

[philmots]

oh s**t, that werent there when i started typein!

so it took me either 2 minutes to write all of that??? hmmm

 

[izibizi]

ARB, the same as full fat
front 25
rear 22 (24-182)

Wider track is due to different wishbones!
Camber is practically the same.

 

[Frasers Cup]

So does more aggressive camber increase cornering speed but decrease grip off the line?

 

[Cup ov Ste 53]

The 172 cup has a different castor angle not CAMBER angle.
The CASTOR angle simple explanined is the angle of the struts back to front not side to side. increasing the angle would make the centreline look more like this \ than | . (viewed from the o/side)
Its all on the renault cdrom's, look under the SPL spec. (sport light)

 

[edde]

Differences in setups are listed here
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=133900

This link might work direct to the pdf file. (this infro is from the spl and 172 files on dialogues)


http://www.cliosport.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11081&d=1155755988

 

[BenR]

not exactly an easy to read pdf!

Nor does it explain the 10mm front track gain. The geometry changes just wont account for 5mm a side.

 

[edde]

not exactly an easy to read pdf!

Nor does it explain the 10mm front track gain. The geometry changes just wont account for 5mm a side.

I know I've not yet worked out how to tell pdf maker to use an A3 sheets of paper. Although I might have found out hoe you do it.

I cannot find any different parts (except for the different subframe) dampers and shocks.
Anyway the list of parts for 172 full fat are

77 00 817 986 COIL SPRING C 16V 72.10 ---3 x 1
77 00 789 477 SPACER SUSP CL 10.09 ---3 x 1
60 00 073 511 ARM SUSPEN LHF C2 45.42 ---3 x 1
82 00 195 989 SUBFRAME C2 344.76 ---3 x 1
77 00 419 475 COVER S/ABSRBR C2 7.24 ---3 x 1
60 00 073 526 SHOCK ABS FR C2 50.30 ---3 x 1
77 00 436 850 SPRING SUSP C3 70.92 ---3 x 1
60 00 073 545 SHOCK ABS RR C2 50.30 ---3 x 1

The parts below for the Cup are the only ones different to the above parts for the 172 I don't thik I looked at hubs

82 00 196 011 SUBFRAME 362.16 ---3 x 1
82 00 104 116 S/ABSORBER FRONT 41.55 ---3 x 1
82 00 110 005 RR SHOCKS 67.91 ---3 x 1

 

[Lagerlout]

Basically Renault are liars and they will say anything that will get people to buy a car. A bit like the 'bespoke tyres' for the 182 Cup packs and the 'track day options' for the 172 Cup..... load of b****cks.

And most of the people on here are a marketers dream. lol.

 

[AARON 61]

Hi i know this is a bit of a different question but does that mean if you have four wheel alignment checked the garage would have to have the right spec for different spec models ie 172 different from 182 and different again from 182 cup wide track
cheers aaron

 

[edde]

Hi i know this is a bit of a different question but does that mean if you have four wheel alignment checked the garage would have to have the right spec for different spec models ie 172 different from 182 and different again from 182 cup wide track
cheers aaron

Yep read my link I posted above gives the different spec.

 

[Teds]

I now can understand were a 182 cup can gain its track. Wheel offset + 205 tyres over a 195 would give you 10mm then divide that and you gain 5 mm either side. But still does not explain 172 cup.....?

 

[BenR]

tyre width does not account for track increase as you take the measurement from the trye centreline which would be the same on a 195 or 205 tyre

 

[Teds]

Your right just looking for answers.

 

[philmots]

lol i had my cup 4 wheel aligned, i just left it with the bloke and it came out handling loads better! god knows what settings he used on it

 

[AARON 61]

HI can anyone tell me what the toe should be on a 182 with cup pack
cant see it on the spec sheets
cheers aaron

 

[edde]

It says on the document what the toe is. Its the same as the normal 182
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11081&d=1155755988

0 12' toe out +-5'