Question for anyone with EDC gearbox issues and/or who have had TCU replacement

[$pongebob]

Hi guys,

I just want to apologize in advanced, in case this comes across as a little loopy. Before you conclude that I am a f@#$ing idiot, please stick with me and have a look yourself.

I've had issues with my EDC and have been digging around every corner of every forum, Reddit, and Facebook for information about the problem.

I've noticed a trend that seems to be pretty consistent. You can see for yourself by searching this forum, Reddit, or Facebook Renault pages for "check auto gearbox" and then click on a user profile to see what else they have sought help on. I know that it sounds absolutely insane, but it won't take you more than a minute to confirm it for yourself.

Those who post about gearbox issues also have threads or posts in their history related to one or more of the following:
- Coolant leak
- Thermostat problems
- Battery draining
- O2 errors
- Injection errors
- Parking break errors
- ABS/ESP

What do these all have in common? They are protected circuits in the engine bay fuse box.

Many people replace the battery, TCU, or other transmission components with mixed success, and often report that the unit eventually fails again.

Is it possible that gearbox issues have been misdiagnosed as TCU failure?

The fact that the battery sometimes remediates the issue may suggest that it is related to the electrical system - which may have potentially been damaged by coolant leakage near the transmission or wiring, causing voltage issues.

Additionally, the process of replacing the TCU requires the gearbox to be removed. In the process, this would require the mechanic to remove and potentially clean other connectors - which may suggest that the fix lies not in the new TCU, but the fact that things are disconnected and refreshed.

As such, my question to you:

If you have had gearbox issues or a TCU replaced, have you ever experienced any of these other symptoms - and in particular, coolant leakage?

It's also curious that the Ford cars using the same transmission also have coolant issues. Both components have been recalled.

 

[Sash]

The TCM doesn’t require the gearbox to be removed, it’s on the outside of the gearbox casing as are the motors.

I do agree with you that these cars do suffer from an electrical issue but what or where that issue is I’m not exactly sure and unfortunately don’t have the time to spare to trace the issues.

My issues were solved with a new TCM. However I do still get the occasional error message come up momentarily upon start up (must be a voltage drop issue). It goes away after a few seconds and is fine afterwards.
My TCM was replaced 9/07/22 at 140,663 miles. It’s now on 179,000 miles and seems to be okay.

The coolant leaking issue is usually the bottom hose rubbing through and as far as I know there isn’t any electrical wires or anything in that vicinity to get damaged.

 

[$pongebob]

The TCM doesn’t require the gearbox to be removed, it’s on the outside of the gearbox casing as are the motors.

I do agree with you that these cars do suffer from an electrical issue but what or where that issue is I’m not exactly sure and unfortunately don’t have the time to spare to trace the issues.

My issues were solved with a new TCM. However I do still get the occasional error message come up momentarily upon start up (must be a voltage drop issue). It goes away after a few seconds and is fine afterwards.
My TCM was replaced 9/07/22 at 140,663 miles. It’s now on 179,000 miles and seems to be okay.

The coolant leaking issue is usually the bottom hose rubbing through and as far as I know there isn’t any electrical wires or anything in that vicinity to get damaged.

Mine is leaking onto the engine and dripping down onto the transmission and seems to have done something to the sensors. I have seen photos of other cars with the same thing happening. I actually had another leak a couple of years ago at the thermostat.

Did yours have a leak at all?

It looks like yours is staying pretty strong. Are you running a standard battery or a really high quality one? Out of curiosity, do you drive for long trips or start/stop traffic? My issues only really seemed to pop up once I started driving in peak hour traffic as opposed to using motorways.

I'm likely wrong about the specifics of what is happening, but it's odd that these systems all seem to crop up together.

 

[Sash]

I use mine for teaching people to drive so I do 80% stop start driving.
I’ve just got a standard battery, nothing special apart from it being an AGM. Mine doesn’t have start stop as it’s an early ph1.

I’ve changed the water pump but touch wood not had any issues with thermostat.

Modern cars are incredibly voltage sensitive, any minuscule momentary dip in voltage and they throw up loads of fault codes. My fiesta did something similar when the battery went a bit flat last week. It chucked up a transmission control issue and drove like a bag of shite. Changed the battery and cleared the codes and it’s fine.

 

[$pongebob]

I use mine for teaching people to drive so I do 80% stop start driving.
I’ve just got a standard battery, nothing special apart from it being an AGM. Mine doesn’t have start stop as it’s an early ph1.

I’ve changed the water pump but touch wood not had any issues with thermostat.

Modern cars are incredibly voltage sensitive, any minuscule momentary dip in voltage and they throw up loads of fault codes. My fiesta did something similar when the battery went a bit flat last week. It chucked up a transmission control issue and drove like a bag of shite. Changed the battery and cleared the codes and it’s fine.

That is essentially what I'm getting at with the coolant thing - it may be related to corrosion, causing high resistance and bad contacts, and consequently inconsistent voltage and reduced battery health.

I can see a post of yours related to having had 3 batteries in a year. Did the water pump issue pop up prior to the first change by any chance?

I suppose you're a sucker for pain - please don't tell me that your Fiesta is the model with the same transmission and suite of problems as your Clio?!

Also - what message are you getting on startup? Check auto gearbox, or one related to injection/ABS/anti-pollution etc? For what it's worth, my gearbox message would only pop up on startup for a few seconds, too, before the car decided to s**t itself.

If the return of the message is relatively new it could be a clue that your battery is struggling once again. Mine was great until it wasn't, now it seems like it's on the way out.

 

[Sash]

That is essentially what I'm getting at with the coolant thing - it may be related to corrosion, causing high resistance and bad contacts, and consequently inconsistent voltage and reduced battery health.

I can see a post of yours related to having had 3 batteries in a year. Did the water pump issue pop up prior to the first change by any chance?

I suppose you're a sucker for pain - please don't tell me that your Fiesta is the model with the same transmission and suite of problems as your Clio?!

Also - what message are you getting on startup? Check auto gearbox, or one related to injection/ABS/anti-pollution etc? For what it's worth, my gearbox message would only pop up on startup for a few seconds, too, before the car decided to s**t itself.

If the return of the message is relatively new it could be a clue that your battery is struggling once again. Mine was great until it wasn't, now it seems like it's on the way out.

I changed the waterpump because it was screaming its head off not because it was leaking or anything!

Yes, 3 batteries because that seemed to ‘fix’ the issue. That’s when I started looking deeper into the issues and started taking note of when the issue would flare up. It became apparent it was related to ambient air temperature (high temps caused it to fall over).

I usuallly get one or more of the following ‘check ESC’, ‘check hill start assistance’, ‘anti pollution’
I just ignore them now 😆 every now and then I get the computer to view and clear the codes
Here’s the last lot I had up…

Some of the codes would be quite worrying and costly if a garage were to change or ‘fix’ these red herring issues.
If the car is running ok I’m clearing them and cracking on 🤣


The fiesta does indeed have the same getrag gearbox 🤣 but it is mapped completely differently so therefore seems like a different box.

 

[Martin_172]

mine got a battery at just over 1000 miles under warranty and then another at 12 months old, probably around 8k, first one was due to it refusing to turn the headlights off, no matter what i did, ultimately killing the battery by the time it got recovered to the dealers and then the second one was due to it throwing up LOADS of errors on the dash.

 

[$pongebob]

Yes, 3 batteries because that seemed to ‘fix’ the issue. That’s when I started looking deeper into the issues and started taking note of when the issue would flare up. It became apparent it was related to ambient air temperature (high temps caused it to fall over).

I usuallly get one or more of the following ‘check ESC’, ‘check hill start assistance’, ‘anti pollution’
I just ignore them now 😆 every now and then I get the computer to view and clear the codes
Here’s the last lot I had up…
View attachment 1673815View attachment 1673816View attachment 1673817

Some of the codes would be quite worrying and costly if a garage were to change or ‘fix’ these red herring issues.
If the car is running ok I’m clearing them and cracking on 🤣


The fiesta does indeed have the same getrag gearbox 🤣 but it is mapped completely differently so therefore seems like a different box.

I don't have an OBD (got one on the way) but those codes seem to correspond to the ones that I've had and that precipitated gearbox problems and seem to be related to the voltage/battery. You should keep an eye on it!

 

[$pongebob]

mine got a battery at just over 1000 miles under warranty and then another at 12 months old, probably around 8k, first one was due to it refusing to turn the headlights off, no matter what i did, ultimately killing the battery by the time it got recovered to the dealers and then the second one was due to it throwing up LOADS of errors on the dash.

That sounds like something going on with the fuse box computer and the +after ignition stuff. Did you have any issues with your windows or anything else inside the cabin?

I think that I have had damage to that area due to water, which is draining the battery so badly that the transmission computer and components don't have enough juice.


Have you ever seen signs of water in the cabin? Do you live in an area with a lot of trees and falling leaves?

 

[Martin_172]

I had issues with the drivers electric window switch, it would put the window down 100% of the time but it was extremely hard to get back up! you had to repeatedly just keep releasing and re pulling the switch until it worked. It done this from brand new and was back in twice to the dealers who were unable to fix it and I gave up.

not too many falling leaves around here and i bought the car in the summer with issues from delivery.

 

[Sash]

My pupils often confuse the headlights and the stalk will be on full beam position but just the dipped headlights are on. When this happens you can’t turn them off or anything until the car is turned off and the drivers door opened.
Also something I’ve had recently is my dash cam not powering up, and it won’t until the car has been off and locked for a good 10 mins.

 

[Martin_172]

yeah the stalk was in the normal off position, car closed, doors locked etc!

 

[Sash]

Just another electrical quirk 😉

 

[$pongebob]

I reckon that if the pair of you did a parasitic drain test, you'd see that the car is still drawing power from the UCH.

 

[Ph1 Tom]

My old one used to make a high pitched whine from behind the dash for a good 10 minutes after turning it off and locking it.

 

[Martin_172]

I reckon that if the pair of you did a parasitic drain test, you'd see that the car is still drawing power from the UCH.

Its long gone, I'm a MK2 kinda guy!

 

[cliovirgin]

Hi, I’ve been having the same “ check auto gearbox “ and some times the “ check anti- pollution system.” It is very intermittent, can be weeks in between or a couple of days, then nothing for a while ! Changed the battery, seemed ok for a couple of weeks, then started again. Been on a Renault clip test and from memory was clutch no 1 error. Had the clutch bite point reset. This again cured for a few weeks, but still happens every now and then. It as before then misses all the odd gears (1,3,5 odd shaft).To get rid I have to start and drive, stop, re lock car and then all ok again ! Mine is a Trophy 220, 17 plate, had for 5 years. Really annoying as seems possibly be worse in cold/ wet weather, but can also be fine !

 

[$pongebob]

Hi, I’ve been having the same “ check auto gearbox “ and some times the “ check anti- pollution system.” It is very intermittent, can be weeks in between or a couple of days, then nothing for a while ! Changed the battery, seemed ok for a couple of weeks, then started again. Been on a Renault clip test and from memory was clutch no 1 error. Had the clutch bite point reset. This again cured for a few weeks, but still happens every now and then. It as before then misses all the odd gears (1,3,5 odd shaft).To get rid I have to start and drive, stop, re lock car and then all ok again ! Mine is a Trophy 220, 17 plate, had for 5 years. Really annoying as seems possibly be worse in cold/ wet weather, but can also be fine !

There must be some common issue that is responsible for most of these symptoms.

Do you think yours has ever had water in the cabin? Ever had your scuttle drains blocked?

 

[cliovirgin]

There must be some common issue that is responsible for most of these symptoms.

Do you think yours has ever had water in the cabin? Ever had your scuttle drains blocked?

There must be some common issue that is responsible for most of these symptoms.

Do you think yours has ever had water in the cabin? Ever had your scuttle drains blocked?

No all clean as a whistle. Don’t know whether a placebo or not, but also think it may be to do with the brake pedal on starting. My car has been remapped etc, but don’t think that is the cause of the problems as done nearly a year ago.

 

[$pongebob]

No all clean as a whistle. Don’t know whether a placebo or not, but also think it may be to do with the brake pedal on starting. My car has been remapped etc, but don’t think that is the cause of the problems as done nearly a year ago.

What makes you think it's the brake pedal?

Its so odd that so many of the same parts are implicated and fix things temporarily. I reckon if you did a parasitic drain test there would be something pulling power.

 

[udho77]

Hey I come across your thread, and I have the same suspicion as yours. I've picked up a 2014 Clio RS a month ago for a bargain. Inspected with OBD, test drive seems to be all well, clutch not slipping, etc then just a week ago I got the dreaded "Check Auto Gearbox" where I lost even gears and reverse.

Trawled the web, FB and Renault for info and as you mentioned these are the fixes:
- Batttery getting weak
- TCM Relearn using CLIP or DD4 software
- TCM replacement (which seems the Renault solution for the problem for Clios and even other EDC Renault such as Scenic and etc)

Given that TCM do costly (especially if you are doing in Renault) mainly not the labour though but the part itself is about AUD $2.5 K. I've tried to look at other solution, from lowest cost to eventually resides to replace TCM. And I also have a huge doubt if TCM is the sole problem.

Mechanically, the clutch itself seems to be in good condition, well from my testing at least when TCM is happy, the clutches never slip or fail to shift even in Sport / Race mode. Hence I also suspect it is electrical issue / software related.

Here are the solution that I did so far
My first solution is to replace the battery (which I know from load testing it has 50% life) with 720CCA AGM or the highest possible to fit in the Clio bay. Nope the error still come after that.

Then I keep monitoring the voltage while I'm driving, it seems varies around promptly because this car has BCM that regulates the voltage. The voltage seems varied around high 12 - 14.5 V which indicates the BCM seems to work fine. Though when using the old battery I do notice it can drop to 11 occasionally (hence why weak battery might be an issue in this car).

Second step, since ELM OBD doesn't seem to read fully the DTC from the car, I opted to use DD4ALL software to read the DTC. It come back with this code consistently, which true on what happened to my car (loss of even gear).

ECU trouble codes

DTCStatus.pendingDTC : [00] No
DTCStatus.testFailedSinceLastClear : [00] No
DTCDeviceAndFailureTypeOBD : 5956 [0x1744]
DTCFailureType.ManufacturerOrSupplier : [01] CAN ergonomic pedal information invalid
DTCFailureType.Category : [01] General Electrical Failures
DTCFailureType : [11] Circuit short to ground
DTCStatus.testNotCompletedSinceLastClear : [00] No
DTCStatus.testNotCompletedThisMonitoringCycle : [00] No
DTCStatusAvailabilityMask : 207 [0xcf]
DTCStatus.warningIndicatorRequested : [01] Yes
DTCStatus.confirmedDTC : [01] Yes
StatusOfDTC : 136 [0x88]
DTCStatus.testFailedThisMonitoringCycle : [00] No
DTCStatus.testFailed : [00] No
DTCDeviceIdentifier : [1744] ATIC: clutch actuator 2
If you could obtain your DTC code that would be great to compare what actually triggers the problem.
Here are the next steps that I might try before residing on TCM replacement:
- Replace the clutch actuator (B) part at the bottom of the gearbox. Heard its the same part shared with Ford Fiesta and Focus.
- Fuses Check and parasitic draw
- Check TCM harness for any damage or water damage as you said
- Finally, TCM or whole gearbox replacement.

But with TCM replacement, I'm keen on actually just replacing the whole gearbox as I've been quoted by the wreckers for the 2017 car box, with about $2k. In theory I do get nearly new clutch pack, TCM, and of course newer harness that comes with it.

However searched around the web, I haven't found a good case if this a safe approach. Some said the TCM is registered to your VIN chasiss which only Renault could only do the map otherwise its not working, some said its okay but you might lose Sport / Race mode or weird shifting behavior.

Having played around with DD4ALL I come across a module to re learn your clutch actuator, TCM, etc. Which I bravely try to do those module, and with a success! It does remap your clutch touch point (I notice a sharper shift between the gear). If everyone can confirm if replacing TCM / Gearbox only needs this module to be done then my plan is sorted out.